Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > General Forum > Open Discussion
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Open Discussion Discuss The far right and the far left at the General Forum; Originally Posted by saltwn its not ok to hate democrats I didn't advocate the hate of Democrats. I asked about ...

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:12 PM
GetAClue's Avatar
Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Northern Ohio
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,200
Thanks: 1,555
Thanked 969 Times in 554 Posts
Default Re: The far right and the far left

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
its not ok to hate democrats
I didn't advocate the hate of Democrats. I asked about Communists. However, you seem to conflate the two groups. Is it that you see them as one in the same?
__________________
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead - Thomas Paine
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:13 PM
GetAClue's Avatar
Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Northern Ohio
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,200
Thanks: 1,555
Thanked 969 Times in 554 Posts
Default Re: The far right and the far left

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
i see no difference between fascism aka Mussolini and today's republicans

they are not the point in my statement

it is ok to hate nazis
Then you have a very poor understanding of history. I suggest you look deeper into history books rather than listen to some activist tell you how aligned they may or may not be.
__________________
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead - Thomas Paine
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:51 PM
foundit66's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,725
Thanks: 9,755
Thanked 14,847 Times in 8,985 Posts
Post Re: The far right and the far left

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
How about Communists or are they too ideologically connected to Democrats?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumara View Post
I see no difference between Communists and today's Democrat Party "progressives." I put "progressive" in quotes, because they are actually regressive.
What's funny is that people on the right freak out regarding allegations of racism ...
... but some of those same people are more than happy to throw around allegations of Democrats being communist.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
I agree that most Democrats I know state that they believe Capitalism is the preferred method of commerce, but the problem they have is that they also promote large social programs that require a perversion of capitalism to be funded. They need to learn that the only way capitalism works effectively, is to be unencumbered by over reaching government programs and government cronies.
There is no real pure capitalism or pure socialism. The globe includes different mixes of the ideologies.

I haven't met a Republican yet who truly believes in abolishing all forms of socialism.
One of the easiest failures of this is the question of school funding. Funding other people's schooling is a socialist idea.
And when the issue of funding private schools for peoples' kids comes up? Republicans habitually jump on the band-wagon.
__________________
“Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
~Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to foundit66 For This Useful Post:
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2017, 12:15 AM
Mikeyy's Avatar
Enchanted One
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
Posts: 70,346
Thanks: 22,379
Thanked 18,867 Times in 13,895 Posts
Default Re: The far right and the far left

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
I agree that most Democrats I know state that they believe Capitalism is the preferred method of commerce, but the problem they have is that they also promote large social programs that require a perversion of capitalism to be funded. They need to learn that the only way capitalism works effectively, is to be unencumbered by over reaching government programs and government cronies.
We are not talking here about the far right and far left. Most republicans want their social security when that time comes.
__________________
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2017, 08:04 AM
GetAClue's Avatar
Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Northern Ohio
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,200
Thanks: 1,555
Thanked 969 Times in 554 Posts
Default Re: The far right and the far left

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
What's funny is that people on the right freak out regarding allegations of racism ...
... but some of those same people are more than happy to throw around allegations of Democrats being communist.
And I never said that Democrats were also communists. I was simply asking the question if they were closely aligned. And yes, I was being facetious.


Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
There is no real pure capitalism or pure socialism. The globe includes different mixes of the ideologies.

I haven't met a Republican yet who truly believes in abolishing all forms of socialism.
One of the easiest failures of this is the question of school funding. Funding other people's schooling is a socialist idea.
And when the issue of funding private schools for peoples' kids comes up? Republicans habitually jump on the band-wagon.
You really need to quit conflating Republicans with Conservatives as these days the terms are not at all synonymous.

As to your assertion about no pure capitalism, I think we can agree on that and I never proposed any such system. Yes, we need society to fund things like schools, law enforcement, fire fighters, roads, etc. Most reasonable people would agree with that.

However, where progressives and conservatives tend to differ in opinion is when it comes to social programs. Most left leaning people I know tend to believe that it is the job of government to provide a social safety net to help those not capable of helping themselves and honestly, a lot of conservatives can find a way to get on board with that also. But the difference of opinion shows itself when the left begins expanding the definition of what constitutes "those that cannot help themselves".
__________________
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead - Thomas Paine
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GetAClue For This Useful Post:
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2017, 08:10 AM
GetAClue's Avatar
Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Northern Ohio
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,200
Thanks: 1,555
Thanked 969 Times in 554 Posts
Default Re: The far right and the far left

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
We are not talking here about the far right and far left. Most republicans want their social security when that time comes.
Yes, I want the money back that I was forced, by the threat of incarceration, to hand over to the government for "my benefit".

I would have much rather been able to use those funds to invest towards my own retirement. Had I had that option, I may be on the verge of retirement right now thus opening a job for someone else. But thanks to those elected to look out for me, I will now be forced to work even longer as I don't anticipate seeing much, if any, of those funds I entrusted to our Federal Government.
__________________
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead - Thomas Paine
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2017, 10:07 AM
GottaGo's Avatar
Sanity is overrated.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miles to go before I sleep
Posts: 10,705
Thanks: 8,327
Thanked 6,867 Times in 4,434 Posts
Default Re: The far right and the far left

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
We are not talking here about the far right and far left. Most republicans want their social security when that time comes.
Let's correct that statement a wee bit, shall we?

You said 'republicans'.... why? I don't believe the payout of Social Security requires an admission of political affiliation to receive it. Therefore, that statement should be corrected to read 'all invested citizens'.

So now that statement should read 'Most invested citizens want their social security when that time comes'.

Now lets frame that out: Why would most invested citizens want their social security? Well, because they paid into it. Effectively, they have loaned the government part of their earnings, and the contract was for the government to pay that money back, with 'interest', when the citizen reach retirement age.

Let's look at a breakdown of that. Citizens loaned the government money, so they could pay other people. In order to do so, it had to become a mandatory deduction on ALL citizens to contribute. After all, if someone opted out, then many people would opt out, and the government wouldn't have enough money to pay the people who had contributed previously.

Citizens are not given information or a method of not signing up for this contractual agreement to have money loaned to the government, because the government has obscured the opt out capabilities, so people continue to loan money to the government.

Why is that a right or left thing? Would not any reasonable citizen who has contributed, want a return on their investment?
__________________
Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you can't laugh at yourself, you might as well get embalmed
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GottaGo For This Useful Post:
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2017, 10:47 AM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 15,019
Thanks: 7,847
Thanked 8,571 Times in 5,324 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: The far right and the far left

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
What's funny is that people on the right freak out regarding allegations of racism ...
... but some of those same people are more than happy to throw around allegations of Democrats being communist.



There is no real pure capitalism or pure socialism. The globe includes different mixes of the ideologies.

I haven't met a Republican yet who truly believes in abolishing all forms of socialism.
One of the easiest failures of this is the question of school funding. Funding other people's schooling is a socialist idea.
And when the issue of funding private schools for peoples' kids comes up? Republicans habitually jump on the band-wagon.
There is nothing funny about Democrats and their media toadies braying "racism" at every policy disagreement with political opponents. Democrats are the party of slavery and segregation yet now they are the infallible detectors of racism invariably in Republicans. Of course Republicans objecting to the smear are "freaking out."

Marx described socialism as the transition phase between capitalism and communism. Gee, which major political party had a self avowed socialist running for its Presidential nomination? He was considered such a threat to win it, the party's national leadership rigged the primary process to deny him the nomination.

There has never been and never will be a pure communist government, all the so-called communist state's are stuck in the so-called transition state, socialism. But somehow the lack of a "pure" capitalist state is supposed to invalidate any support for capitalism.
__________________
The Democrat's strategy for the Trump Presidency is the same one used by Stalin's secret police chief "show me the man and I will show you the crime."
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:27 AM
foundit66's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,725
Thanks: 9,755
Thanked 14,847 Times in 8,985 Posts
Post Re: The far right and the far left

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
There is nothing funny about Democrats and their media toadies braying "racism" at every policy disagreement with political opponents.
Until there is some quid pro quo of appreciation for when the right stereo-types the left, I've really given up caring about what concerns you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Democrats are the party of slavery and segregation yet now they are the infallible detectors of racism invariably in Republicans.
It's funny how the right proclaims that the blacks of today have never been slaves and the whites of today have never been slave owners.
But when they talk about other stuff, they want to fixate on what happened centuries ago that have no bearing on the reality of today.
__________________
“Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
~Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:30 AM
foundit66's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,725
Thanks: 9,755
Thanked 14,847 Times in 8,985 Posts
Post Re: The far right and the far left

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
And I never said that Democrats were also communists. I was simply asking the question if they were closely aligned. And yes, I was being facetious.

You really need to quit conflating Republicans with Conservatives as these days the terms are not at all synonymous.

As to your assertion about no pure capitalism, I think we can agree on that and I never proposed any such system. Yes, we need society to fund things like schools, law enforcement, fire fighters, roads, etc. Most reasonable people would agree with that.

However, where progressives and conservatives tend to differ in opinion is when it comes to social programs. Most left leaning people I know tend to believe that it is the job of government to provide a social safety net to help those not capable of helping themselves and honestly, a lot of conservatives can find a way to get on board with that also. But the difference of opinion shows itself when the left begins expanding the definition of what constitutes "those that cannot help themselves".
Thank you for a thoughtful and reasoned response.
I'm not being facetious. I'm just tired of people on this forum who would rather post propaganda than talk and listen to each other.

Can you elaborate on how you see the left expanding the definition of what constitutes "those that cannot help themselves"?
__________________
“Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
~Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
and, far, left, right, the

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0