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Open Discussion Discuss Israelis Wonder How Long Netanyahu Can Back Settlements and Two-State Solution at the General Forum; I laughed when I read the title because he never has. He only has played lip service so we would ...

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Old 12-25-2016, 03:13 PM
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Default Israelis Wonder How Long Netanyahu Can Back Settlements and Two-State Solution

I laughed when I read the title because he never has. He only has played lip service so we would keep supporting them. The right and Trump are still wanting to send them our money. Because of some religious beliefs that god is coming.

JERUSALEM — For years, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, a conservative, has played a double act, competing domestically with his right-wing rivals in backing the settlement project all over the occupied West Bank while professing support for a two-state solution with the Palestinians.

Now, with the stinging United Nations Security Council resolution on Friday condemning Israeli settlement construction, Israeli politicians and analysts on the right, the left and in the political center say Mr. Netanyahu’s game may soon be up.

The Israeli right, feeling empowered by the advent of the Trump administration, which is expected to be more sympathetic to Israeli’s current policies, is pushing Mr. Netanyahu to abandon the idea of a Palestinian state alongside Israel, long considered the only viable solution to the conflict.

Naftali Bennett, the leader of the pro-settlement Jewish Home party in Mr. Netanyahu’s governing coalition, with whom Mr. Netanyahu and his Likud Party compete for votes, is goading him to take on more extreme positions like annexing parts of the West Bank, adding to a sense in Israel that the real Mr. Netanyahu may have to stand up and decide which side he is on.
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“He has to choose between the international community and Bennett,” said Shlomo Avineri, a professor of political science at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. “It is not an easy choice, but he has to make a choice,” Professor Avineri said, adding, “Is Israel going to alienate itself from the whole world for the sake of settlement activity? And it is the whole world. Is this what Zionism is about?”

For a second consecutive day on Sunday, Mr. Netanyahu lambasted the departing Obama administration, publicly accusing it of having orchestrated Friday’s Security Council resolution, despite denials from Washington. The United States refrained from using its veto power, as it had done many times before to shield Israel, and abstained in the 14-to-0 vote.

“From the information that we have, we have no doubt that the Obama administration initiated it, stood behind it, coordinated on the wording and demanded that it be passed,” Mr. Netanyahu said at the start of the weekly cabinet meeting.

Referring to the American secretary of state, Mr. Netanyahu added, “As I told John Kerry on Thursday, friends don’t take friends to the Security Council,” and he said he was looking forward to working with President-elect Donald J. Trump's administration when it takes office next month.

The Foreign Ministry summoned ambassadors of countries that had voted in favor of the resolution for personal meetings with ministry officials in Jerusalem, despite the Christmas holiday, which some of those countries celebrate.

In a highly unusual move, Mr. Netanyahu, who is also the foreign minister, summoned the American ambassador to Israel, Daniel B. Shapiro, for a meeting, though it was not immediately clear when that would take place.

Mr. Netanyahu also instructed his ministers to suspend their diplomatic activities and contacts with counterparts from the countries that had voted for the resolution for the next three weeks, until the American administration changes, and to suspend travel to those countries, according to Israeli news reports.

Israeli news reports also said the defense minister, Avigdor Lieberman, had instructed Israel’s agencies to sever contacts with Palestinian Authority representatives on civil, not security matters. The ministry did not immediately confirm the reports.

Saeb Erekat, a senior Palestine Liberation Organization official and the Palestinians’ veteran negotiator, called on Israel “to seize the opportunity, to wake up, to stop the violence, to stop settlements, and to resume negotiations.” Mr. Netanyahu says he is ready for negotiations anytime, but with no preconditions.

The Security Council vote seemed to have caught Israel off-guard.

“I hope for Netanyahu’s sake (and also for ours) that he knows the truth at least deep in his heart — it was the chronicle of a failure foretold,” Ben Caspit, a political commentator, wrote in the Maariv newspaper on Sunday.

Many commentators said the Security Council vote partly reflected a history of conflict between Mr. Netanyahu and President Obama over the settlements and Mr. Netanyahu’s anger over the Iranian nuclear deal. They also pointed to Mr. Netanyahu’s increasingly vocal backing for the settler cause. That includes his advancement of highly contentious legislation, known as the Regulation Bill, that would retroactively legalize settler outposts and homes built on privately owned Palestinian land and force the owners to accept compensation.

Mr. Netanyahu and his attorney general had previously warned that the bill, which recently passed a first reading in Parliament, contravenes international law and could land Israeli officials in the defendant dock of the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

“After he said it, he rushed to vote in favor of the bill. Why?” Mr. Caspit wrote in Maariv. “Because of Bennett. The fear of the possibility that he would not be able to siphon seats from Bennett next time on Election Day caused him to act like a small-time grocery owner, instead of a national leader.”

Tzipi Livni, a former Israeli foreign minister and a leader of the center-left Zionist Union, wrote on Facebook after the Security Council vote, “The Security Council decision is bad for Israel and it is the result of Netanyahu’s surrender to the extreme right.”

Even Haggai Segal, a prominent settler and editor in chief of a right-wing newspaper, Makor Rishon, has written in recent months that the Regulation Bill had “no chance” because it would be invalidated by Israel’s Supreme Court and would be used by the International Criminal Court “to incriminate Israel for war crimes.”

Mr. Segal, who served jail time as a member of the Jewish Underground that maimed and killed Palestinians in the 1980s, wrote this summer, “The wise thing now is to make do with what it is possible to do, and not lose it all by insisting on impossible goals.”

Mr. Bennett did not seem deterred. In a statement to reporters on Sunday at the Western Wall in the Old City in East Jerusalem, Mr. Bennett said, “It’s time to decide between two alternatives: surrendering our land or sovereignty,” adding that steps would be taken in the near future to try to apply Israeli law in Judea and Samaria, the biblical terms for the West Bank.

But some Israelis were skeptical that Mr. Netanyahu, in his third consecutive term in office, and fourth over all, would choose one side over the other.

“Bennett knows that Netanyahu is not going to make a decision,” said Shmuel Sandler, a professor of political science at Bar-Ilan University, near Tel Aviv. “He may say he will go with both. So far, it worked. It is easier for Bennett because he is not the prime minister. Netanyahu wants to enjoy both of the worlds.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/25/wo...esolution.html
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Old 12-25-2016, 04:08 PM
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Default Re: Israelis Wonder How Long Netanyahu Can Back Settlements and Two-State Solution

By denial of their land rights, the UN actions have essentially ended any land for peace or two State options for the Israelis.

It never was the intention of the Palestinians, or the World body, to achieve one in the first place.
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Old 12-25-2016, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: Israelis Wonder How Long Netanyahu Can Back Settlements and Two-State Solution

Bullshlt. It has never been Nutty yahoo's plan. He just wants to take all the land and has been lying in our faces that he ever wanted a two state solution.

This is a map of the west bank settlements.



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By denial of their land rights, the UN actions have essentially ended any land for peace or two State options for the Israelis.

It never was the intention of the Palestinians, or the World body, to achieve one in the first place.
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Old 12-25-2016, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: Israelis Wonder How Long Netanyahu Can Back Settlements and Two-State Solution

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Bullshlt. It has never been Nutty yahoo's plan. He just wants to take all the land and has been lying in our faces that he ever wanted a two state solution.

This is a map of the west bank settlements.

Netanyahu is not a king, despot or dictator. The Israelis have won the land in question under the '67 war. Back when Palestinians were just a political idea in the minds of Israel's enemies.

Egypt didn't want them, and couldn't afford to support them, so it kicked the Palestinians north to Gaza. Long before Netanyahu was PM.

Saudi Arabia has plenty of similar land and gobs of money. Why don't they create a "peaceful" solution?
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Old 12-25-2016, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Israelis Wonder How Long Netanyahu Can Back Settlements and Two-State Solution

Your claim is not supported by even Israel.
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Netanyahu is not a king, despot or dictator. The Israelis have won the land in question under the '67 war. Back when Palestinians were just a political idea in the minds of Israel's enemies.

Egypt didn't want them, and couldn't afford to support them, so it kicked the Palestinians north to Gaza. Long before Netanyahu was PM.

Saudi Arabia has plenty of similar land and gobs of money. Why don't they create a "peaceful" solution?
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Old 12-25-2016, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: Israelis Wonder How Long Netanyahu Can Back Settlements and Two-State Solution

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Your claim is not supported by even Israel.
Your anti Semitism is exceeded only by the ignorance that spawned it.

Again, Merry Christmas
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Old 12-25-2016, 09:14 PM
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Default Re: Israelis Wonder How Long Netanyahu Can Back Settlements and Two-State Solution

It's amazing how some people think...

They "SAY" that Israel will never accept a two-state-solution without even mentioning the fact that PALESTINE refuses to admit ANY Israel territory is or will ever EXIST...
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Old 12-25-2016, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: Israelis Wonder How Long Netanyahu Can Back Settlements and Two-State Solution

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Your anti Semitism is exceeded only by the ignorance that spawned it.

Again, Merry Christmas
I never get how you people can't understand the difference between opposing Israeli policy and religion. How you follow your religion means nothing to me. If it's Islam, Christianity or being Jewish. I think they are all make believe. So the only thing I might have an issue with is people who claim GOD gave them land. But we are talking political policy. Try to catch on. I have never attacked people for being Jewish.

The other thing is this is the lazy way of avoiding discussion of Israeli policy. If you don't like my views you say I hate the people. I have lots of Jewish friends. I don't care if they believe in a toad as long as they aren't trying to induct me.
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Old 12-25-2016, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: Israelis Wonder How Long Netanyahu Can Back Settlements and Two-State Solution

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
I never get how you people can't understand the difference between opposing Israeli policy and religion. How you follow your religion means nothing to me. If it's Islam, Christianity or being Jewish. I think they are all make believe. So the only thing I might have an issue with is people who claim GOD gave them land. But we are talking political policy. Try to catch on. I have never attacked people for being Jewish.

The other thing is this is the lazy way of avoiding discussion of Israeli policy. If you don't like my views you say I hate the people. I have lots of Jewish friends. I don't care if they believe in a toad as long as they aren't trying to induct me.
No two historians ever agree on what happened, and the damn thing is they both think they're telling the truth." Harry S. Truman.

I am a bit lazy tonite. Far too interested in family and the Christ day to do your homework. But here is an thumbnail synopsis of the origins of current conflict that might help.


The Israeli-Arab or Israeli-Palestinian conflict did not begin after the Oslo accords or in 1967 or 1948. The Arab population did not all arrive in Palestine after Zionist settlement, as some right-wing Zionists imagine. The Muslim and Arab habitation of the land goes back over a thousand years and has a long and varied history. The claim of the Jews, on the other hand, is not just based on ancient rights, but on continuous settlement in the land since ancient times as well as on the immense effort and investment of the Zionist movement in developing the land since the late nineteenth century. The problems posed by the Palestinian refugees, the real threat of terror and conflicting and well grounded claims to Jerusalem, and the rights of each side cannot be dismissed as partisans of each side try to do. Demonization of one side or the other will not help you understand the conflict nor will it lead to a solution. Nor can all the claims be ignored. In retrospect, the Oslo agreements (Oslo Declaration of Principles and The Oslo Interim Agreement) were attempts to do just that: to postpone the difficult issues for some later time. We are now living in that later time and paying the price of that postponement..

History, and different perceptions of history, are perhaps the most important factors in the Arab-Israeli conflict. Accounts of history, interpreting history in different ways, are used to justify claims and to negate claims, to vilify the enemy and to glorify "our own" side. Dozens of accounts have been written. Most of the accounts on the Web are intended to convince rather than to inform.

http://mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm
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Old 12-25-2016, 09:22 PM
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Default Re: Israelis Wonder How Long Netanyahu Can Back Settlements and Two-State Solution

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
It's amazing how some people think...

They "SAY" that Israel will never accept a two-state-solution without even mentioning the fact that PALESTINE refuses to admit ANY Israel territory is or will ever EXIST...
There is only one side building to push the other side out and doing it with the strength of arms. Hezbollah and Hamas we begun in the mid 80's. There was a lot of chances prior to them to create a two state solution. There still could be if all sides got on the same program. There is only one side living in poverty under the thumb of the other. Israel stopped trying years ago. They kept promising they were trying but never has made honest approaches.
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