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Open Discussion Discuss Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Service at the General Forum; Originally Posted by ShivaTD Sorry but this has nothing to do with the "Fight for $15" movement at all. This ...

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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2016, 09:04 AM
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Default Re: Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Ser

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Sorry but this has nothing to do with the "Fight for $15" movement at all.

This has to do with the nature of the franchise. The corporation provides a product and a business plan to the franchise owner that is designed for success for the person that doesn't have the business knowledge to succeed on their own. In the case of McDonald's the success of the business plan depended upon under-compensation for the employees so that the incompetent franchise owner would end up with "profit" while being competitive with other fast food companies.

In short McDonald's corporate doesn't have a business plan for the franchise owners that will succeed unless the owners screw the workers. Instead of revising the business plan to provide fair compensation for the workers that would require McDonald's to provide business training for it's franchise owners the McDonalds Corporation has decided to just eliminate part of the workers.

It really comes down to accommodating franchise owners that are completely incompetent by the McDonald's Corporation and nothing more.
Why is paying market wages to employees generally unskilled and for the most part younger or older than the typical wage earner, and paying what both sides agree on and voluntarily accept, somehow screwing the workers?

The minimum wage issue is typical librobabble. I'm guessing you don't own a MD's or any other fast food business. I'm guessing you don't work for anywhere near minimum wage. Yet you believe that it is your duty to decide for the principles what is fair.

You want a solution for your perception of fair, remove from the labor force those willing to work for less. That would be those willing to risk being here illegally in order to avail themselves of our comparatively high wages.

Two ways to increase wages. Reduce the labor pool or increase the job pool. Which of these does increasing minimum wage address?
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Old 12-04-2016, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Ser

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
McDonalds sucks and I hope people boycott their nasty asses. I don't like their plastic food anyway but I hope others turn their backs on Ronald. Costco is very successful. They pay a great wage and bennies. They only mark up the prices of their products 15% and they are killing it. They sell a fresh raosted chicken for $4. My friend pointed out that In and Out burger pays well and offers college tuition. We know the employees in Australia get more pay and the price of a Big Mac there is the same. This is what is wrong with America. Corporate greed. I will never eat at McDonalds again.



As the labor union-backed Fight for $15 begins yet another nationwide strike on November 29, I have a simple message for the protest organizers and the reporters covering them: I told you so. It brings me no joy to write these words. The push for a $15 starter wage has negatively impacted the career prospects of employees who were just getting started in the workforce while extinguishing the businesses that employed them. I wish it were not so. But it's important to document these consequences, lest policymakers elsewhere decide that the $15 movement is worth embracing. Watch on Forbes: $15 Minimum Wage, What We Can Expect Let's start with automation. In 2013, when the Fight for $15 was still

Forbes Welcome
Good idea Mikeyy, don't eat at McDonalds. Their food is crap and so is their service. Which is why a robot is more than capable of doing that job.

I kinda laugh at the $15 crowd. But I kinda feel sorry for them. They protest in foolishnesh to eliminate their own jobs via automatation.
Anybody doing a $8 an hour job will soon be replaced by a machine when $15 an hour is required for human labor.

If one only produces $8 in value one cannot expect $9 in pay.
The laws of business economics are just as steadfast as the laws of physics and cannot be broken by the laws of man with good intention.
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Old 12-04-2016, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Ser

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Originally Posted by squerly View Post
With all due respect Mikeyy, it might help your case if you had some actual business experience to draw from and not just Google searches.
Not knowing what Mikeyy's business experience I can only address this from my business experience that is extensive.

There's only one real problem with the $15/hr minimum wage. It's not enough! The minimum wage needs to be enough to fund the minimum-mandatory expenditures of the median household size of 2.54 people per household (about $21/hr plus company provided health insurance) in the United States (2015).

The obvious question is whether enterprises in the United States can afford that minimum wage and the answer is a resounding YES with only one caveat. The management of the enterprise must be competent because if they're not they can't create the business plan with that expenditure that will ensure the success of the enterprise.

The labor expense for an enterprise is the same as any other expense of the enterprise and as long as the business plan accommodates the expenditure then there's no problem with a "living wage" necessary for the median household in the United States. Having written and revised many successful business plans over the last 45 years that all included a "living wage" starting compensation there's no doubt in my mind whatsoever that any competent business owner can do this as well.

Opposition to a "living wage" as addressed above is nothing more than an argument for managerial incompetence by the owners of enterprise. Why anyone would advocate incompetence in management is something I just don't understand.
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Old 12-04-2016, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Ser

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Not knowing what Mikeyy's business experience I can only address this from my business experience that is extensive.
Your post makes me seriously doubt your claim of extensive business experience. Perhaps you can tell us what this extensive experience consists of?
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Ser

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Not knowing what Mikeyy's business experience I can only address this from my business experience that is extensive.

There's only one real problem with the $15/hr minimum wage. It's not enough! The minimum wage needs to be enough to fund the minimum-mandatory expenditures of the median household size of 2.54 people per household (about $21/hr plus company provided health insurance) in the United States (2015).

The obvious question is whether enterprises in the United States can afford that minimum wage and the answer is a resounding YES with only one caveat. The management of the enterprise must be competent because if they're not they can't create the business plan with that expenditure that will ensure the success of the enterprise.

The labor expense for an enterprise is the same as any other expense of the enterprise and as long as the business plan accommodates the expenditure then there's no problem with a "living wage" necessary for the median household in the United States. Having written and revised many successful business plans over the last 45 years that all included a "living wage" starting compensation there's no doubt in my mind whatsoever that any competent business owner can do this as well.

Opposition to a "living wage" as addressed above is nothing more than an argument for managerial incompetence by the owners of enterprise. Why anyone would advocate incompetence in management is something I just don't understand.
Does your "business experience" include actualing owning and running a business? I'm guessing it doesn't. If it does, feel free to pay your employees $15 per hour. Nobody is holding you back

I kind of wonder,
if you actually owned a business
and if you actually paid a "living wage" of $15/hour for your mythical business
Would you be happy with the employed teen child in your mythical business supporting his family of 2.54 people on his $15/hour wage?
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Ser

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Originally Posted by Bat View Post
I kinda laugh at the $15 crowd. But I kinda feel sorry for them. They protest in foolishnesh to eliminate their own jobs via automatation.
Anybody doing a $8 an hour job will soon be replaced by a machine when $15 an hour is required for human labor.

If one only produces $8 in value one cannot expect $9 in pay.
The laws of business economics are just as steadfast as the laws of physics and cannot be broken by the laws of man with good intention.
It's funny because those that oppose a "living wage" often claim that those embracing a living wage don't understand business and then we get a statement like this that reflects a complete lack of understanding of business.

Automation by enterprise has been going on for thousands of years and it's always been based upon a cost/benefit analysis. Automation was historically based upon mechanical automation that was often complex and expensive. That changed in the late 1960's and early 1970's with the introduction of computer technology that simplified the mechanical automation and expanded the capabilities of automation. Since the 1970's the costs of automation have been reduced dramatically because today it's often based solely upon the computer technology without a dependence upon mechanical systems at all.

Within the coming decades the vast majority of human tasks are going to eliminated by artificial intelligence and technology including some like "brain surgeon" as the computer capabilities expand and the costs continue to be reduced.

We've had automated "burger flippers" commercially available for several years now meeting the cost/benefit criteria to justify using them by an enterprise. The problem for enterprise is that a significant percentage of the "customers" want a person to cook their food as opposed to a machine. There will always be people that want a person to prepare their food and they will pay for it.

This can be compared to the automated car washes. When I grew up we had car washers but the actual "mechanical" work being done was limited. Now we have completely automated car washes and I use them. At the same time some people are willing to pay more for a auto detail shop where the work is hand done by people. I also use detail shops along with the automated car wash.

The jobs remain but there might be fewer of them but that's not a real problem because enterprise will come up with new jobs for people to do where only a person can provide the service.

The statements related to human value are pure BS. Value isn't being referred to but instead "price" is being referred to. Even based upon "price" every worker produces far more in dollars than it costs for their labor. The typical labor cost for an enterprise is 1/4th of gross sales that are based upon labor so the $8/hr worker is actually "worth" $32/hr because that's how much the business receives in sales based upon the labor of the person.

But this relates to "pricing" and not "value" because we relate to price and not value when we address the cost of labor. If a person can't live on their compensation working fulltime then their labor price is less than the value of their labor.
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Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Ser

Shiva,
you didn't answer my questions.
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:09 PM
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Default Re: Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Ser

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
It's funny because those that oppose a "living wage" often claim that those embracing a living wage don't understand business and then we get a statement like this that reflects a complete lack of understanding of business.

Automation by enterprise has been going on for thousands of years and it's always been based upon a cost/benefit analysis. Automation was historically based upon mechanical automation that was often complex and expensive. That changed in the late 1960's and early 1970's with the introduction of computer technology that simplified the mechanical automation and expanded the capabilities of automation. Since the 1970's the costs of automation have been reduced dramatically because today it's often based solely upon the computer technology without a dependence upon mechanical systems at all.

Within the coming decades the vast majority of human tasks are going to eliminated by artificial intelligence and technology including some like "brain surgeon" as the computer capabilities expand and the costs continue to be reduced.

We've had automated "burger flippers" commercially available for several years now meeting the cost/benefit criteria to justify using them by an enterprise. The problem for enterprise is that a significant percentage of the "customers" want a person to cook their food as opposed to a machine. There will always be people that want a person to prepare their food and they will pay for it.

This can be compared to the automated car washes. When I grew up we had car washers but the actual "mechanical" work being done was limited. Now we have completely automated car washes and I use them. At the same time some people are willing to pay more for a auto detail shop where the work is hand done by people. I also use detail shops along with the automated car wash.

The jobs remain but there might be fewer of them but that's not a real problem because enterprise will come up with new jobs for people to do where only a person can provide the service.

The statements related to human value are pure BS. Value isn't being referred to but instead "price" is being referred to. Even based upon "price" every worker produces far more in dollars than it costs for their labor. The typical labor cost for an enterprise is 1/4th of gross sales that are based upon labor so the $8/hr worker is actually "worth" $32/hr because that's how much the business receives in sales based upon the labor of the person.

But this relates to "pricing" and not "value" because we relate to price and not value when we address the cost of labor. If a person can't live on their compensation working fulltime then their labor price is less than the value of their labor.
Shiva, again you're just babbling, making no sense, and hoping nobody will notice. I notice.

First, someone here is demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of business, but it's not those opposing a "living" wage. It's those who claim extensive business experience and yet make posts like this.

First, the business of business is business. Business is not, was never intended to be, nor will ever be, the enforcement division of the liberals and their failed policies.

It's true that the technology to produce a fully automated burger machine is available. What's not true is that the reason is that is what the customer wants. Generally the customer wants unsweetened ice tea for 99 cents when they order unsweetened ice tea. At $7/hour, it is cost effective to hire people. Double that and machines work better. Use banks for an example. That huge marble clad building open 9-2 on weekdays has largely been replaced by a 4 x 6 kiosk operating 24/7, which dispenses the correct change nearly every time and does the accounting accurately in seconds.

You're last paragraph makes no sense and is factually inaccurate. What labor can live on has no, zero, nada to do with the value of their labor..

"If a person can't live on their compensation working fulltime then their labor price is less than the value of their labor."

Why would you even make that statement?
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Old 12-04-2016, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Ser

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Originally Posted by squerly View Post
Your post makes me seriously doubt your claim of extensive business experience. Perhaps you can tell us what this extensive experience consists of?
I have always been in business. I had a service company for handicapped people where I employed about 25 people. I own a pearling supply company where I supply the pearl farms around the world with the nucleus used to grow cultured pearls, I have a pearl business. I also own a construction company in Seattle that I started almost two years ago now. I have owned a commercial diving company and a shell export business. I have shipped hundreds of tons of shells to Japan and China and I have done diving work for the Army corps of engineers, the dept. of Fish and Wildlife and other companies. I could go on but you get the point. Anything to avoid a real job. People here know about my business. It's no secret. If you want to check me out my name is Michael David Rivers. Check me out on linkedin, facebook, Thepearler.com Whereever you want to.
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Old 12-04-2016, 02:45 PM
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Default Re: Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Ser

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
I have always been in business. I had a service company for handicapped people where I employed about 25 people. I own a pearling supply company where I supply the pearl farms around the world with the nucleus used to grow cultured pearls, I have a pearl business. I also own a construction company in Seattle that I started almost two years ago now. I have owned a commercial diving company and a shell export business. I have shipped hundreds of tons of shells to Japan and China and I have done diving work for the Army corps of engineers, the dept. of Fish and Wildlife and other companies. I could go on but you get the point. Anything to avoid a real job. People here know about my business. It's no secret. If you want to check me out my name is Michael David Rivers. Check me out on linkedin, facebook, Thepearler.com Whereever you want to.
Well thanks for the info Mikeyy but the post was directed to ShivaTD.
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