Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > General Forum > Open Discussion
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Open Discussion Discuss California Is The Best State at the General Forum; If Utah disappeared you wouldn't notice it. But if California did you would Originally Posted by Bodo Are you just ...

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2016, 08:52 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
Posts: 70,513
Thanks: 22,404
Thanked 18,920 Times in 13,935 Posts
Default Re: California Is The Best State

If Utah disappeared you wouldn't notice it. But if California did you would
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodo View Post
Are you just trying to troll everyone else? Or do you have a point?

You're really trying to compare Kalifornia to Kansas? Really?!?

What about Utah? Its economy is better that Kali's and it's run by (what you would call) theocratic Mormons.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2016, 08:53 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
Posts: 70,513
Thanks: 22,404
Thanked 18,920 Times in 13,935 Posts
Default Re: California Is The Best State

You get your information from TV shows about flipping homes? I have owned homes in Illinois and California. I didn't notice a difference in home purchasing. But trhen I don't watch TV much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodo View Post
Ya, you couldn't pay me to move to California.

Besides, my gun is attached to my pants and my pants are attached to me. My gun isn't welcome in California (the magazines anways) so neither am I.

Not to mention govt's involvement in EVERYTHING. Have you simply watched the home flipping shows? Yeesh, no thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2016, 09:00 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
Posts: 70,513
Thanks: 22,404
Thanked 18,920 Times in 13,935 Posts
Default Re: California Is The Best State

I don't know where you get the idea that California's government is up your butt. BTW Tennessee has a higher tax rate than California

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post

Quote:
While California has it's beauty spots (Shelter Cove, The Redwoods) the taxation and regulation oppress any inhabitants that think outside the liberal box. Taxes and regulations out the whazoo.

Quote:
My spouse's family is from Sacramento and Humbolt County. Out of 4 members, only one remains there down near SF, and once her spouse retires, they are gone. Best feature of California? Scoma's restaurant in SF.
Now, my adopted home state of Tennessee has just as many, if not more, beauty spots (Smoky Mountains, English Mountain, Clinch Mountains, lakes, forests and rolling ag fields) while permitting people to think for themselves, low taxes, and good employment rates.

You wouldn't last a month here, I'm sure, since you wouldn't have the government up your butt to tell you what to do.

The Sacremento Delta, The Redwood forest, Sequoia, Yosemite, Mohave, Sanoma, San Diego, The northern coast, The southern coast, The big valley, Shasta, Tahoe. I can keep going but I have already proved my point. And also, I have lasted a month in Tennessee. I was diving on land between the lakes for a couple of months
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2016, 09:04 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
Posts: 70,513
Thanks: 22,404
Thanked 18,920 Times in 13,935 Posts
Default Re: California Is The Best State

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumara View Post
Since California is the best state, I think that it should secede from the union as some have demanded, and then we can all watch it implode as its economy collapses under the weight of all its liberal programs.
California's economy is in good shape and if it were a country it would be one of the top economies in the world.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2016, 09:19 AM
Bodo's Avatar
I am the 53%
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Somewhere in the Smokies
Posts: 2,716
Thanks: 715
Thanked 1,179 Times in 771 Posts
Default Re: California Is The Best State

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
If Utah disappeared you wouldn't notice it. But if California did you would
You're too optimistic. Nothing good comes from California.
__________________
"The ultimate decision about what is accepted as right and wrong will be made not by individual human wisdom but by the disappearance of the groups that have adhered to the "wrong" beliefs."
-- F.A. Hayek
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2016, 07:07 AM
GottaGo's Avatar
Sanity is overrated.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miles to go before I sleep
Posts: 12,811
Thanks: 10,805
Thanked 9,016 Times in 5,614 Posts
Default Re: California Is The Best State

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
I don't know where you get the idea that California's government is up your butt. BTW Tennessee has a higher tax rate than California




The Sacremento Delta, The Redwood forest, Sequoia, Yosemite, Mohave, Sanoma, San Diego, The northern coast, The southern coast, The big valley, Shasta, Tahoe. I can keep going but I have already proved my point. And also, I have lasted a month in Tennessee. I was diving on land between the lakes for a couple of months
Slightly slanted map there. Tennessee doesn't have a state income tax.... California is 4.09% effective. https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator

So your attempt at showing California as having a better tax rate, well. fails.
__________________
Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you don't laugh at yourself, a whole bunch of people will volunteer to do it for you
I never lose. I either win, or I learn....
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GottaGo For This Useful Post:
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2016, 07:38 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
Posts: 70,513
Thanks: 22,404
Thanked 18,920 Times in 13,935 Posts
Default Re: California Is The Best State

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Slightly slanted map there. Tennessee doesn't have a state income tax.... California is 4.09% effective. https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator

So your attempt at showing California as having a better tax rate, well. fails.

Congratulations Tennessee: You’ve Got the Most Regressive Tax System in America


With no income tax and high sales taxes, the state is asking poor people to pay far more than their fair share.

NASHVILLE, Tenn.—The federal tax system is, on the whole, progressive. Higher-income households pay a higher share of their income in taxes. But some states have done all they can to reverse that. According to a study by economists at the Federal Reserve, Tennessee, Mississippi, and West Virginia have structured their tax codes so that middle and lower-income families pay a bigger share of their incomes than wealthy families do. Many economists, including Thomas Piketty, believe that such systems can make inequality worse.

Tennessee has taken this strategy the furthest: The state has the most regressive tax system in the country, according to the study: It has no state income tax (though it does tax interest on stocks and bonds) and, instead, the state relies on sales taxes and other fees to fill its coffers, although many luxury items are tax-free. Additionally, attorneys’ fees, services such as haircuts and massages, and goods for horses and airplanes are all tax-exempt.

“It’s just totally upside down,” said Dick Williams, chairman of Tennesseans for Fair Taxation, which has advocated for a state income tax. Williams’ group wants to get rid of the sales tax on food, and close some other tax loopholes. But that’s not the direction things have been going: Last November, voters passed a constitutional amendment that banned the state from levying any income or payroll tax. The measure passed by a margin of nearly two-to-one.

In 2001, Tennessee, facing an unprecedented budget crisis, debated introducing an income tax in the state. Spurred on by conservative talk-radio hosts, 2,000 protesters swarmed the Capitol, screaming “no means no,” and smashed a few windows. Riot police were called in, and a new group was born, Tennessee Tax Revolt. Almost all of the legislators who had publicly supported the income tax were voted out in the next election cycle.

But no income tax doesn’t mean there are no taxes. Tennessee has one of the highest combined local-state sales-tax rates in the country, at 9.45 percent, according to the Tax Foundation.

That ends up hitting people like Joseph Mitchell, 62, pretty hard. I spoke to Mitchell outside of a Kroger’s grocery store in Nashville, where he was unloading a few weeks’ worth of groceries into his trunk. His total taxes for the grocery trip—$10.97.

“It’s a Republican state, so the rich get what they want,” Mitchell told me. “It won’t change until the politics change.”

Mitchell said that he would prefer an income tax to ever-increasing sales taxes and fees. He also wouldn’t mind more taxes on the companies putting up huge apartment buildings and condos in Nashville or on the TV studios that increasingly film there, lured by tax breaks.

“The rich get richer and the poor get poorer,” said Mitchell, a retired educator who is still supporting a family.

But that doesn’t have to be the case. According to the Fed study, tax codes in some states, such as Minnesota, Oregon, and Wisconsin, “substantially mitigate income inequality.” Those states make their tax codes more equitable by exempting basic necessities from sales taxes, and by offering a significant state-level Earned Income Tax Credit.

“If all states switched to Minnesota’s tax code, after-tax wage inequality would fall,” the authors write.

By contrast, a switch to Tennessee’s tax code would significantly increase income inequality throughout the country because of the state’s lack of an income tax and its hefty taxes on food and clothing.

The kicker is that Tennessee’s tax code also isn’t working even by the most pragmatic measure: Is it providing enough revenue for the state to provide adequate public services? The answer is no. For example, booming Nashville is trying to put in public transit, but without an income tax, and local opposition to raising already-high sales taxes, it’s hard to find the money.

“If we had a revenue stream right now for transit, we would be building a transit line,” said Jo Ann Graves, the executive director of the Transit Alliance of Middle Tennessee.

Small towns and counties are struggling to raise revenues, too. Clay County, in northern Tennessee, had to close its school district until it figured out how to raise more revenue. (The county has proposed a wheel tax, which is essentially a vehicle-registration fee, but the vote isn’t until next year.) In August, state agencies were asked to offer cuts of 3.5 percent for the governor’s budget negotiations with the legislature.

To make ends meet, the state and its counties are getting creative, increasing fees for services such as driver’s and marriage licenses. The state recently increased fees for hunting and fishing licenses by 19 percent, and started charging more for birth and death certificates. One county implemented a policy to charge prisoners for things like toilet paper and pants.

Still, one of the hottest topics in Tennessee is a proposal to phase out the Hall income tax, which taxes investments on stocks and dividends. If that passes, Tennessee’s rich would pay even less.

Tennessee Has the Most Regressive Tax System in America - The Atlantic

1. Tennessee

Tennessee has no income tax but does have a "hall tax" -- that is, a 6% tax on interest and dividends, which is specifically allowed by the state constitution. Tennessee also has a 7% sales tax. Income taxes are a contentious issue in Tennessee. The state constitution gives the government the right to tax property as well as income from stocks and bonds, but it does not mention personal income. Every so often lawmakers try to institute an income tax, as the constitution does not specifically bar this. This November, Tennesseans will vote on an amendment to the state constitution to ban any future taxes on payroll or personal income.

While Tennessee has no income tax on wages, if you are a retiree living off of dividends and interest income, you should think twice before moving to Tennessee for the tax benefits. In 2011, the average per-capita state and local tax paid was $2,777, according to the Tax Foundation -- the second-lowest in the U.S.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2016, 09:22 AM
squerly's Avatar
Counselor
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 663
Thanks: 673
Thanked 586 Times in 315 Posts
Default Re: California Is The Best State

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
So really you should thank California for the liberal policies that help the entire nation while Republican states seem to be in bad shape.
I don't know Mikeyy. It would scare me to live in a state where the elected officials pass gun laws for the citizens and subsequently exempt themselves from those very same laws. I think I'm better off here in NC.

Quote:
The California state senate agrees with Charlie Rangel that they “deserve” to own guns but the citizens do not.

They voted 28-8 to exempt themselves from the gun-control laws that apply to the rest of the California.

You think maybe this will cause Californians to rise up? NOPE! It happened 5 years ago and since California has passed a plethora of other gun laws…that only apply to citizens.

Yes, you heard me right! The exemption was created in 2011 and the California legislature has passed a number of gun laws since. Pretty easy when you are passing bills that do not apply to you!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to squerly For This Useful Post:
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2016, 10:02 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
Posts: 70,513
Thanks: 22,404
Thanked 18,920 Times in 13,935 Posts
Default Re: California Is The Best State

I think you are right to stay there. BTW there seems to be plenty of gun ownership in California so it doesn't look like anyone has been hurting in that regard. Also, the states with the largest percentage of gun deaths are mostly all Republican strongholds so I can see why you need to be armed so heavily. California is one of the lowest ranked in gun violence while your neighbor to the south is one of the highest. Fact is left leaning states are much safer than right leaning states.

For 2013, the 10 states with the highest firearm age-adjusted death rates were: Alaska (19.8), Louisiana (19.3), Mississippi (17.8), Alabama (17.6), Arkansas (16.8), Wyoming (16.7), Montana (16.7), Oklahoma (16.5), New Mexico (15.5) and Tennessee (15.4).

The 10 states with the lowest firearm age-adjusted death rates were, starting with the lowest: Hawaii (2.6), Massachusetts (3.1), New York (4.2), Connecticut (4.4), Rhode Island (5.3), New Jersey (5.7), New Hampshire (6.4), Minnesota (7.6), California (7.7) and Iowa (8.0).

http://247wallst.com/special-report/...-gun-violence/

Quote:
Originally Posted by squerly View Post
I don't know Mikeyy. It would scare me to live in a state where the elected officials pass gun laws for the citizens and subsequently exempt themselves from those very same laws. I think I'm better off here in NC.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2016, 05:04 PM
GottaGo's Avatar
Sanity is overrated.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miles to go before I sleep
Posts: 12,811
Thanks: 10,805
Thanked 9,016 Times in 5,614 Posts
Default Re: California Is The Best State

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post

Congratulations Tennessee: You’ve Got the Most Regressive Tax System in America


With no income tax and high sales taxes, the state is asking poor people to pay far more than their fair share.

NASHVILLE, Tenn.—The federal tax system is, on the whole, progressive. Higher-income households pay a higher share of their income in taxes. But some states have done all they can to reverse that. According to a study by economists at the Federal Reserve, Tennessee, Mississippi, and West Virginia have structured their tax codes so that middle and lower-income families pay a bigger share of their incomes than wealthy families do. Many economists, including Thomas Piketty, believe that such systems can make inequality worse.

Tennessee has taken this strategy the furthest: The state has the most regressive tax system in the country, according to the study: It has no state income tax (though it does tax interest on stocks and bonds) and, instead, the state relies on sales taxes and other fees to fill its coffers, although many luxury items are tax-free. Additionally, attorneys’ fees, services such as haircuts and massages, and goods for horses and airplanes are all tax-exempt.

“It’s just totally upside down,” said Dick Williams, chairman of Tennesseans for Fair Taxation, which has advocated for a state income tax. Williams’ group wants to get rid of the sales tax on food, and close some other tax loopholes. But that’s not the direction things have been going: Last November, voters passed a constitutional amendment that banned the state from levying any income or payroll tax. The measure passed by a margin of nearly two-to-one.

In 2001, Tennessee, facing an unprecedented budget crisis, debated introducing an income tax in the state. Spurred on by conservative talk-radio hosts, 2,000 protesters swarmed the Capitol, screaming “no means no,” and smashed a few windows. Riot police were called in, and a new group was born, Tennessee Tax Revolt. Almost all of the legislators who had publicly supported the income tax were voted out in the next election cycle.

But no income tax doesn’t mean there are no taxes. Tennessee has one of the highest combined local-state sales-tax rates in the country, at 9.45 percent, according to the Tax Foundation.

That ends up hitting people like Joseph Mitchell, 62, pretty hard. I spoke to Mitchell outside of a Kroger’s grocery store in Nashville, where he was unloading a few weeks’ worth of groceries into his trunk. His total taxes for the grocery trip—$10.97.

“It’s a Republican state, so the rich get what they want,” Mitchell told me. “It won’t change until the politics change.”

Mitchell said that he would prefer an income tax to ever-increasing sales taxes and fees. He also wouldn’t mind more taxes on the companies putting up huge apartment buildings and condos in Nashville or on the TV studios that increasingly film there, lured by tax breaks.

“The rich get richer and the poor get poorer,” said Mitchell, a retired educator who is still supporting a family.

But that doesn’t have to be the case. According to the Fed study, tax codes in some states, such as Minnesota, Oregon, and Wisconsin, “substantially mitigate income inequality.” Those states make their tax codes more equitable by exempting basic necessities from sales taxes, and by offering a significant state-level Earned Income Tax Credit.

“If all states switched to Minnesota’s tax code, after-tax wage inequality would fall,” the authors write.

By contrast, a switch to Tennessee’s tax code would significantly increase income inequality throughout the country because of the state’s lack of an income tax and its hefty taxes on food and clothing.

The kicker is that Tennessee’s tax code also isn’t working even by the most pragmatic measure: Is it providing enough revenue for the state to provide adequate public services? The answer is no. For example, booming Nashville is trying to put in public transit, but without an income tax, and local opposition to raising already-high sales taxes, it’s hard to find the money.

“If we had a revenue stream right now for transit, we would be building a transit line,” said Jo Ann Graves, the executive director of the Transit Alliance of Middle Tennessee.

Small towns and counties are struggling to raise revenues, too. Clay County, in northern Tennessee, had to close its school district until it figured out how to raise more revenue. (The county has proposed a wheel tax, which is essentially a vehicle-registration fee, but the vote isn’t until next year.) In August, state agencies were asked to offer cuts of 3.5 percent for the governor’s budget negotiations with the legislature.

To make ends meet, the state and its counties are getting creative, increasing fees for services such as driver’s and marriage licenses. The state recently increased fees for hunting and fishing licenses by 19 percent, and started charging more for birth and death certificates. One county implemented a policy to charge prisoners for things like toilet paper and pants.

Still, one of the hottest topics in Tennessee is a proposal to phase out the Hall income tax, which taxes investments on stocks and dividends. If that passes, Tennessee’s rich would pay even less.

Tennessee Has the Most Regressive Tax System in America - The Atlantic

1. Tennessee

Tennessee has no income tax but does have a "hall tax" -- that is, a 6% tax on interest and dividends, which is specifically allowed by the state constitution. Tennessee also has a 7% sales tax. Income taxes are a contentious issue in Tennessee. The state constitution gives the government the right to tax property as well as income from stocks and bonds, but it does not mention personal income. Every so often lawmakers try to institute an income tax, as the constitution does not specifically bar this. This November, Tennesseans will vote on an amendment to the state constitution to ban any future taxes on payroll or personal income.

While Tennessee has no income tax on wages, if you are a retiree living off of dividends and interest income, you should think twice before moving to Tennessee for the tax benefits. In 2011, the average per-capita state and local tax paid was $2,777, according to the Tax Foundation -- the second-lowest in the U.S.
Interesting piece there, but it leaves out a number of things: the percentage of people that have EIC, which as many a Democrat will explain, will offset most sales tax for the lower/no income groups.

Wealthier people will buy more expensive items, therefore paying a higher percentage of the sales tax.

The Halls tax is applicable only after the first $2500 (I believe it went up from $2500 back in 2010) on dividends/interest, and if you actually make that, you aren't in the lower tax groups.

Think about it this way, Mikeyy... would you rather be taxed on what you earn, or what you spend? California is taxed on both.

The tax system here is not what I would define as regressive, and I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for an income tax.
__________________
Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you don't laugh at yourself, a whole bunch of people will volunteer to do it for you
I never lose. I either win, or I learn....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
best, california, state, the

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0