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Open Discussion Discuss My Takeaway for the Cosby Circus at the General Forum; Originally Posted by FrancSevin I disagree. We cannot have it both ways. " It is not the facts of the ...

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Old 12-15-2014, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: My Takeaway for the Cosby Circus

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
I disagree. We cannot have it both ways.

"It is not the facts of the matter but, the seriousness of the allegations."
Anita Hill during the Clarence Thomas Lynching.
I have nothing but respect for you, Franc. But I find that mode of thought piggish. Boorish. Uncivilized.
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: My Takeaway for the Cosby Circus

I think he did some of the things he's been accused of.
All of the women so far are successful in their own right, and perhaps aren't digging for gold, but closure?
Hear that? closure and peace.

Some women who suffer this type of thing join up together to get the dirty dog that did them wrong. Doesn't matter if it was 20 years ago or three.

Feel free to yell at me, but this is my opinion and nothing more.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: My Takeaway for the Cosby Circus

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Exactly. I hate the blame the victim mentality. It's disgusting and why these crimes go unreported for years. A typical side effect of the chauvinistic, patriarchal structure of our society.
IP..


With fame comes, power.
With power comes, control.

Control from someone bigger in stature or circumstance.

Off the topic here, but I had an Uncle who sexually molested myself and two of my cousins when we were quite young.
None of it was mentioned until we reached our teens.
My Dad said he wanted to kill the sonofabitch, but Uncle Joe soon passed in a nursing home, minus his legs from diabetes.
I've always considered that karma for the damage he'd done.

/Back on topic
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: My Takeaway for the Cosby Circus

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I have nothing but respect for you, Franc. But I find that mode of thought piggish. Boorish. Uncivilized.
I'm not surprised. Sometimes brutal honesty is like that.

I have respect for your posts as well but in truth, women do themselves no favors by failing to come forward timely and with evidences. How many times have you heard of prosecutors using the argument that failing to testify with evidence and courage allows the criminal rapist to continue hurting others.

At my age, I can no longer count the number of women I have counseled and supported who were abused, raped hurt by men, but who failed to follow through and put the SOB down.

I am dealing with one now and she has allowed her children nd family to suffer because she won't use the authorities, the law, and the evidence to put him away. Yet, she cries daily on my shoulder.

Equivocation undermines the law. Women do it at their peril. And stressing at the patience of civility.
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Old 12-16-2014, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: My Takeaway for the Cosby Circus

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I'm not surprised. Sometimes brutal honesty is like that.

I have respect for your posts as well but in truth, women do themselves no favors by failing to come forward timely and with evidences. How many times have you heard of prosecutors using the argument that failing to testify with evidence and courage allows the criminal rapist to continue hurting others.

At my age, I can no longer count the number of women I have counseled and supported who were abused, raped hurt by men, but who failed to follow through and put the SOB down.

I am dealing with one now and she has allowed her children nd family to suffer because she won't use the authorities, the law, and the evidence to put him away. Yet, she cries daily on my shoulder.

Equivocation undermines the law. Women do it at their peril. And stressing at the patience of civility.
Rape is a demeaning and soul destroying crime to the victim. It is not a crime of sex as much as it is one of power. The rapist takes the most intimate part of the victim and robs her of it. Can you really fault a woman who has been stripped of her most intimate power for not wanting or even, in most cases, not being able to face the aggressor for years?

It's all well and good to say shoulda woulda couldas when you aren't the one who has been damaged by the most heinous of acts.
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Old 12-16-2014, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: My Takeaway for the Cosby Circus

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Rape is a demeaning and soul destroying crime to the victim. It is not a crime of sex as much as it is one of power. The rapist takes the most intimate part of the victim and robs her of it. Can you really fault a woman who has been stripped of her most intimate power for not wanting or even, in most cases, not being able to face the aggressor for years?

It's all well and good to say shoulda woulda couldas when you aren't the one who has been damaged by the most heinous of acts.
All true but......

That is much like saying a white person cannot understand the victimhood of being black. It is inarguable but doesn't solve the issue of racism. As a paramedic who answered frequently to rape and abuse cases, I cannot claim to understand the perspective of the victim, but I can sure explain the experience of watching them allow their aggressor to continue un punished. And free to create another victim.

The "intimacy" of the crime has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.

The crime will go unpunished if the victim cannot, or will not press for justice. And further, if rape is not "sexual" then it actually boils down to bullying. A power game that takes one's dignity. To a degree, we all face that intrusion into our "intimate" selves. Perhaps one cannot fight a more superior physical ( or even mental)force, but we should be able to marshal the law timely to the crime. It is both healing and socially responsible to do so.

Such expectations on my part is not "blaming the victim" And in the case of Bill Cosby I certainly do not blame the victims. But so far, none have much evidence aside from their ability to claim they were with him. It is a he said she said for the moment and the woulda, shoulda, excuse could be nothing more than a convenient shield behind which to safely ruin a man's reputation.

As I exampled with Clarence Thomas, it would not be the first time the woman's word was taken over the man's. Frankly, given the evidence so far, it is only the accusation that is factual, and which has hurt anyone. Pointing out the horrendously brutal truth of a rape does not flesh out any one's guilt, or innocence, in this event. So far.

That said, I think it very possible that another icon of "goodness" may destroyed. Imagine the "intimacy" of that invasion of Cosby's reputation if in reality he was no more than a boorish cad. If it was more than that, then Cosby himself is no longer the issue. He is then guilty as hell. The issue then becomes what our society does about women who feel they cannot come forward.

We are not a Saudi Arabia here. There, a rape victim is often stoned unless four men will stand against her attacker in a truly masochistic court. I would suggest we are better than that even now. So perhaps we ought not condemn the women, or Mr. Cosby, just yet on the slim evidence that he has been multiply accused.

Guilty or not, the time lag is a problem and we ought to find a way to address it. Guilty aggressors should be brought to light and tried in public court. So that the criminal will be removed from society. The intimate nature of the crime has nothing to do with seeking that justice.

That a man can do this horrible crime to a woman is unacceptable.
That a woman can effectively accuse a man with no more evidential weight than the accusation itself is unacceptable as well.
That was my point.

But at this time, we the public do not know what, or to whom, a crime was committed. I suggest caution, and reason, until we do.

Then we should let fly our righteous anger on the proper target.
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Last edited by FrancSevin; 12-16-2014 at 04:18 PM..
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