Why Islam is a Greater Threat Than Christianity

bhkad · #1 (**permalink**) 07-30-2008, 06:32 PM

Why Islam is a Greater Threat Than Christianity

(This is a version of an answer posted elsewhere.)

Islam is a greater IDEOLOGICAL threat than Christianity because Islam has done nothing to neutralize it's most violent ideological commandments, but Christianity has.

In another thread I point out the dual nature of political Islam. This means that the Koran may say two different things that seem to contradict each other, yet they can both be true.

This is difficult for most Westerners to understand but it seems that Muslims become accustomed to it because it is so often demonstrated in the Koran.

FOR INFIDELS: Duality and Political Islam - Debate Politics Forums

Part of that duality or maybe the entire principle of dual logic may be explained by the term, "abrogation."

Quote:

Those Westerners who manage to pick up a translation of the Quran are often left bewildered as to its meaning thanks to ignorance of a critically important principle of Quranic interpretation known as "abrogation."

The principle of abrogation -- al-naskh wa al-mansukh (the abrogating and the abrogated) -- directs that verses revealed later in Muhammad's career "abrogate" -- i.e., cancel and replace -- earlier ones whose instructions they may contradict. Thus, passages revealed later in Muhammad's career, in Medina, overrule passages revealed earlier, in Mecca. The Quran itself lays out the principle of abrogation:

2:106. Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We {Allah} abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?

Anyone who has worked in a large corporation may be familiar with inter-office Memos or company directives. The military also uses these kinds of communications which are sent to all sub divisions or groups or individuals to inform them of a directive, implementation of a plan or procedure or to notify them of a supply shortage or surplus and so on. Well, when a new change in the situation takes place a new memo is then issued which supersedes the previous one and the old one is thrown away and everyone makes the necessary changes and proceeds on that basis.

In the Koran it seems that in 2:106 the same idea is being expressed. New ideas will be introduced which will override the old ones. But the Koran retains both the older one and the later one and only the later one should be obeyed.

Quote:

It seems that 2:106 was revealed in response to skepticism directed at Muhammad that Allah's revelations were not entirely consistent over time. Muhammad's rebuttal was that "Allah is able to do all things" -- even change his mind. To confuse matters further, though the Quran was revealed to Muhammad sequentially over some twenty years' time, it was not compiled in chronological order. When the Quran was finally collated into book form under Caliph Uthman, the suras were ordered from longest to shortest with no connection whatever to the order in which they were revealed or to their thematic content. In order to find out what the Quran says on a given topic, it is necessary to examine the other Islamic sources that give clues as to when in Muhammad's lifetime the revelations occurred. Upon such examination, one discovers that the Meccan suras, revealed at a time when the Muslims were vulnerable, are generally benign; the later Medinan suras, revealed after Muhammad had made himself the head of an army, are bellicose.

Let us take, for example, 50:45 and Sura 109, both revealed in Mecca:

50:45. We know of best what they say; and you (O Muhammad) are not a tyrant over them (to force them to Belief). But warn by the Qur'an, him who fears My Threat.

109:1. Say (O Muhammad to these Mushrikun and Kafirun): "O Al-Kafirun (disbelievers in Allah, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar {divine foreordainment and sustaining of all things}, etc.)!
109:2. "I worship not that which you worship,
109:3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
109:4. "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
109:5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
109:6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)."

Then there is this passage revealed just after the Muslims reached Medina and were still vulnerable:

2:256. There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut {idolatry} and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

In contrast, take 9:5, commonly referred to as the "Verse of the Sword", revealed toward the end of Muhammad's life:

9:5. Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun {unbelievers} wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat {the Islamic ritual prayers}), and give Zakat {alms}, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Having been revealed later in Muhammad?s life than 50:45, 109, and 2:256, the Verse of the Sword abrogates their peaceful injunctions in accordance with 2:106. Sura 8, revealed shortly before Sura 9, reveals a similar theme:

8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

8:67. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

9:29. Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9:33. It is He {Allah} Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).

The Quran's commandments to Muslims to wage war in the name of Allah against non-Muslims are unmistakable. They are, furthermore, absolutely authoritative as they were revealed late in the Prophet's career and so cancel and replace earlier instructions to act peaceably. Without knowledge of the principle of abrogation, Westerners will continue to misread the Quran and misdiagnose Islam as a "religion of peace."

Jihad Watch: Islam 101

So, to answer your question, because older instructions do indeed preach peace and tolerance, it can be said that those who follow those instructions are following the rightful interpretation.

But because of the principle of abrogation, where the later instructions are the ones which are supposed to be the operative ones, a so-called 'extremist' may also be correct in claiming that his interpretation is the correct one.

And until Muslims address this and decide that one is correct and the other is not correct, there will ALWAYS be a certain number of Muslims who will be able to CORRECTLY assert that their interpretation of the Koran is correct.

And for that reason ISLAM is a greater IDEOLOGICAL threat than Christianity.

Because out the front door of the Koran walk perfectly wonderful Muslims who it would be anyone's delight to befriend.

Yet, out the back door of Islam march those who have Allah's blessing to conquer, compel to convert or capitulate or kill until all of mankind submits to Allah's rule.

And the ones walking out the front door can't say the back door Muslims are wrong, only that they do unpleasant things.

But ALL Muslims recognize this to be true:

Quote:

"The only statement about humanity as a whole is that all humanity must submit to Islam."

Duality and Political Islam - New English Review

Christians recognize this statement to be true:

Quote:

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

-- Matthew 22:36-40

BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.

There shouldn't be any doubt now that Islam is a greater IDEOLOGICAL threat than Christianity because Islam has done nothing to neutralize it's most violent ideological commandments, but Christianity has.

Mikeyy · #2 (**permalink**) 07-30-2008, 08:41 PM

Oh Boy, Here we go again. I am happy to be religiously unaffiliated. Maybe someone who really has a connection to God could ask him to clear shit up before a bunch of us die from the confusion. Wouldn't that be helpful? Oh wait I get it. He doesn't do that sort of thing. Very handy.

tristanrobin · #3 (**permalink**) 07-30-2008, 08:46 PM

Quote:

The principle of abrogation -- al-naskh wa al-mansukh (the abrogating and the abrogated) -- directs that verses revealed later in Muhammad's career "abrogate" -- i.e., cancel and replace -- earlier ones whose instructions they may contradict. Thus, passages revealed later in Muhammad's career, in Medina, overrule passages revealed earlier, in Mecca. The Quran itself lays out the principle of abrogation:

So, it's just like the New Testament canceling out parts of the Old Testament?

saltwn · #4 (**permalink**) 07-30-2008, 09:51 PM

I just looked at this thread to see what Tristan's reply was.

Good one, Tris!

bhkad · #5 (**permalink**) 07-30-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristanrobin

So, it's just like the New Testament canceling out parts of the Old Testament?

The vicious violence intrinsic to Islamic jihad is not an aberration.

Quote:

Unlike Christ’s repudiation of faith-propagating violence - “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight” (John 18: 36)

Muhammad urges his followers to slay the enemies of Allah - “slay the idolaters wherever you find them” (Sura 9: 5).

While medieval so-called Christian violence [in reality Roman Catholic e.g. the Crusades] was a lapse from Christ’s methods and thus condemned by the New Testament, Islamic violence is in perfect accord with Muhammad’s hostile directives.

Christianity, Islam and British Politics

foundit66 · #6 (**permalink**) 07-30-2008, 10:20 PM

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother ...
-- Matthew 10:34-35

Mikeyy · #7 (**permalink**) 07-30-2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother ...
-- Matthew 10:34-35

I am sure if Matthew was around today his spokesman would have said he was misquoted or taken out of context.

faithful_servant · #8 (**permalink**) 07-31-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristanrobin

So, it's just like the New Testament canceling out parts of the Old Testament?

(here we go again...)

No. The Old Covenant was put into place with the promise that it's reqquirements would be fullfilled and a New Covenant established. As mankind matured, his need for strict guidance and boundaries changed. Just like with raising kids - as they get older, the rules change, not because mom and dad changed, but because the kids changed.

tris, I know that you and I have gone around this tree before and I've laid it out plain and simple. I've given you chapter and verse and reason and yet you still insist on spreading your garbage around. Why is this?? Why would you, in spite of having been educated on this issue, continue to act as if you are ignorant and lead others into the same ignorance? Maybe you should talk to your pastor about this issue. Obviously, you don't have much Biblical education, so maybe you should spend a little time learning the Truth.

faithful_servant · #9 (**permalink**) 07-31-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother ...
-- Matthew 10:34-35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy

I am sure if Matthew was around today his spokesman would have said he was misquoted or taken out of context.

Quote:

“Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

Read the passage in context and you see that Jesus is clearly talking about differences between people regarding HIM. So, yes Mikeyy, it was taken out of context.

tristanrobin · #10 (**permalink**) 07-31-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faithful_servant

(here we go again...)
tris, I know that you and I have gone around this tree before and I've laid it out plain and simple. I've given you chapter and verse and reason and yet you still insist on spreading your garbage around. Why is this?? Why would you, in spite of having been educated on this issue, continue to act as if you are ignorant and lead others into the same ignorance? Maybe you should talk to your pastor about this issue. Obviously, you don't have much Biblical education, so maybe you should spend a little time learning the Truth.

yeah, yeah, yeah
you know all about it

I've educated YOU and you continue to act as if you are ignorant and lead others into the same ignorance

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