I think I am on to something here. I think this recent energy crisis is BS. I think its a last ditch effort behind a giant giveaway to the oil companies. I watched the head of Cheveron the other night on Larry King. And today I watched the President repeat the same BS. In fact they said the exact same words. "We didn't get in to this mess overnight, So it is going to take time to get out of it" In fact it has been overnight. In fact it has been in a few short years. Someone is lying to someone here. The Cheveron guy was asked what they pay for oil. He wouldn't say. He asked why they won't build anymore refining capacity. He said that they had enlarged their L.A. refinery. But again he didn't answer the question. Robert Kennedy pointed out that if we increase fuel standards 1 MPG it would equal the amount of oil that is projected to come from ANWAR. But people just keep on talking. I think this is a plot. I think just like the neocons had a vast scheme about the middle east after we finished Iraq. I think Cheney and the oil companies are pulling our chains. They are self diluted again that they are doing it for our own good. I believe that there is an orchestrated effort to get the American people to get behind any idea they want to accomplish. Now I see a pew report that say's that Americans now are wanting to drill off shore and Alaska. These numbers are the highest they have been. In fact Americans for the first time believe it is more important then conservation. How freakin stupid are we as a people. We are being played like a deck of cards by Cheney and his oil buddies. I have already said that I am not against drilling in ANWAR. All I want is the fair market price for the oil. The Alaska Pipeline was supposed to free us from foriegn oil. Now that oil is going overseas. Kennedy asked the guy from Chevron if he would promise that the oil discovered would stay in the U.S. Again, He wouldn't answer.

They have successfully made this a right and left issue. So half the country is actually happy to be screwed. Thats how dumb we are as a people. We have swallowed the story that its because of China's development. China has been growing for 20 years. They didn't just double in size last year.

And what about all the leases they have now that they are not drilling? Everyone agrees that they have productive wells capped all over the country. They have millions of acres of off shore leases now that they are not even working on.

This is a big oil givaway. By the time its done we will be paying the oil companies to help us. We will build their refineries. We will give away large swathes of land for pennies. And they will continue giving lip service to conservation.

If this country is declining its because of this type of thinking. We are like crack heads. Instead of breaking our habit. We are digging in the sofa to give our dealers more money. Freakin stupid.

A lot of oil executives, if not all, can be pretty coy and defensive about their companies. However, I just buy my gas from Costco.

Well of course, because that's a stupid assclown kind of political question. Oil will go wherever the market wants it to go. It would be counterproductive to insist that all oil drilled in the US stayed in the US, because that's never a reality. Oil will go to where it's sold at the cheapest cost of good sold. It's simple economics. ANWAR oil might not all go to the US simply because it might be cheaper to sell it abroad. Of course since the price of oil is set globally, selling ANWAR oil more cheaply abroad would STILL help to reduce the price of oil. It's simple economics in a free trade world. Were we nationalists, as you seem to want our oil companies to become, we would produce oil and subsidize it rather than tax it.

No, people who think everything is simply a right and left issue are the dumb people. Those of us who realize that this is an economic issue and who understand how the global market works can see the issue for what it is. The US oil companies aren't setting the price of oil, no matter how much some want to believe it's true.

Speculators set the price of oil, and through that the price of gasoline in the US.

Speculation is that given the current environment, globally, it's more likely that oil production won't increase and certain that oil demand will continue to rise.

Regarding population, sure. But China, India, other Asian nations, South American nations ... they all continue to become developed and as such their demand grows astronomically. You oversimplifying things doesn't refute that reality.

Oh yeah ... everyone agrees that there are acres of seabed that are cost effective to get to compared to our global competitiors that our private industry greedy oil companies are JUST SITTING ON, as if they're waiting for Godot.

Yeah, that makes sense. The US oil industry refuses to further exploit the world oil market price because it's sitting on reserves that will guarantee future exploitation ... because OPEC is purposefully limiting supply in hopes that eventually Chelsea Clinton can take over the world, Brain. Narf!

Really? 'Big Oil' earns a similar return on investment compared to other publically held stocks. Why aren't you incensed with the profit margin of Microsoft?

I agree that we should stop digging into the sofas of other people to the point that digging in our own is less fruitful.

Perhaps if Obama decided he was entirely for an increase in Nuclear energy plants ... something long overdue but simply a 'consideration' on his part, my mind could be changed.

It's going to take a lot more to build hundreds of nuclear plants than Obama will ever gain by taxing the profits of oil companies whose hands he seeks to bind.

Hopefully Obama will win the Presidency with a Congressional majority. After that we will hit rock bottom and the adults will be elected to office once again.

Of course, some will always accuse anyone who doesn't vote for a black man to be a racist. Fuck them. I vote on ideals and principles. If your don't agree with them, I have others. That you still won't likely agree with, but at least we'll be better friends after the exchange.

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I don't know how strong of a connection you see, but here's some food for thought...

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The price of retail gasoline could fall by half, to around $2 a gallon, within 30 days of passage of a law to limit speculation in energy-futures markets, four energy analysts told Congress on Monday.
Testifying to the House Energy and Commerce Committee, Michael Masters of Masters Capital Management said that the price of oil would quickly drop closer to its marginal cost of around $65 to $75 a barrel, about half the current $135.
Fadel Gheit of Oppenheimer & Co., Edward Krapels of Energy Security Analysis and Roger Diwan of PFC Energy Consultants agreed with Masters' assessment at a hearing on proposed legislation to limit speculation in futures markets.
Krapels said that it wouldn't even take 30 days to drive prices lower, as fund managers quickly liquidated their positions in futures markets.
"Record oil prices are inflated by speculation and not justified by market fundamentals," according to Gheit. "Based on supply and demand fundamentals, crude-oil prices should not be above $60 per barrel."
Futures trading in London has not been a major factor in rising oil prices, testified Sir Bob Reid, chairman of the Chairman of London-based ICE Futures Europe. Rising prices are largely a function of fundamental supply and demand, not manipulation or speculation, he said.
"Energy speculation has become a growth industry and it is time for the government to intervene," said Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., chairman of the full committee. "We need to consider a full range of options to counter this rapacious speculation." It was Dingell's strongest statement yet on the role of speculators.

Gas could fall to $2 if Congress acts, analysts say - MarketWatch

The correlation may be considerably weaker than their testimony claims, but from what I have read across different articles there is a clear consensus of a clear impact from speculation to higher gas prices.


Actually, Microsoft HAS been to court over their monopoly / pricing issues.
It has cost them BIG. Both here and abroad.
microsoft monopoly fines - Google Search

But on the flip side, all I see are "investigations" for the oil companies, they show up in Congress, repeat the same standard spiel, and NOTHING CHANGES.

End of the day I am right. There is no serious justification for the recent prices except market monipulation. So when they say it took years to get in this mess. In actuallity it is recent speculation and market deregulation that has caused the problem.
I would love to see you convince joe 6 pack that selling China our oil is good for us. That would be entertaining to watch. Why the distain by the right for conservation? You don't want to address the 1 mpg statement? My point about digging in the sofa is that we are like a junkie refusing to break our habit. We think its more important to find more drug. If you dig in ANWAR do you really think it matters in the big scheme? We can increase our fuel standards. What in the hell is the matter with this country. The big auto companies can't compete. I travel to Australia and they pay $1.90 per litre. They drive more economical cars then us. V8's are rare. And mostly in antiques. It hasn't hurt their life style. We live like pigs. We hop in our Escalades and drive through Starbucks. And now at $4 per gallon we are losing our minds. So where is the right on MPG? Or any conservation plan. What is McCains plan to conserve? We whine about China. They have higher fuel standards. Their Buses and taxis are propane. Why does it always have to be this but not that.

Now to address taxing the windfall of the oil companies. I am against it. I am against the tax code the way it is anyway. It is a catch all for lazy gutless politicians. But I am not for doing them any favors either. They are not loyal to the U.S. they are only loyal to their stockholders. If we let them drill in ANWAR. They should pay top dollar. And I think there should be a bipartisan group to investigate these recent increase. And Cheney's contact with any oil execs.

When asked if the music industry corrupts morals with their lyrics and suggestions, they defend themselves by saying "We're not as bad as the movies."...Then when you ask the movie industry the same question, they blame the television people...And, of course, when you ask the television people, they will place the blame on the music...

It all ends up encyclical, but in reality, they are ALL to blame...

That's the way it works here...The oil companies blame OPEC, OPEC blames the speculators, and the speculators blame the oil companies...

It's the same thing...,They all have a part as villian, but because it's not clear, they end up skating because no one can put a finger on any one part as a definite...

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"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd

Look, Mikeyy, you act like a kid who just discovered sex. And now he's telling grown men how great it is. Of course we're getting screwed.

There's not even a law on the books that we have to pay income tax. But every good honest American does it. The federal reserve act was written, not by lawmakers/congressmen. But by a room full of private businessmen on Jekyll Island, Georgia. They loan us paper money that is not based on any real commodity and we (through our taxes) pay them back with interest. If the economy goes down, they loan us more worthless paper.

That's just something for you to chew on about how bad we are screwed every day.

Back to the subject. In the 1960's there was a big sugar "shortage". The claim was that some sugar producing country had a storm or a war or whatever and sugar went up sky high. Most people don't have their ear to the sugar market even in 1960 so they bought the scam. All the while Florida and Cuba grew as much cane as ever; Oregon, Idaho and other states grew and refined sugar beets same as usual.

In modern times, with mass media and a constant dumbing down since WWII, it is infinitely easier to fool the public into thinking pretty much any damn thing you want. Long as you got the bucks to spread around.

In light of this knowledge, why should I believe there is a fuel shortage?

For the sake of argument, say there is. Why should I believe very powerful people will just give up some of their money and say, "Hey guys, for the good of the environment and because the little man is having it rough, I am going to chuck all my oil interests and start over! I'm going to back fuel efficiency and alternatives. And by the way, drilling in ANWAR won't add that much to the reserve and the damage cost is more than it's worth!"

Nope. You are correct. It is like dope.

Not only the likes of us who are addicted to air conditioning and toys and cars, but the same as the dope dealers' heady trip on THE MONEY!! These gazillionaire corporations are not ever going to just settle for making the same thing they did last year. Cause-Oh my God-the "cost of living" goes up every year.
They perpetuate their own lust by MAKING the freakin' cost of living go up and up.

Too many politicians and media types are too heavily involved. Not to mention all the businesses directly or indirectly impacted by the fossil fuel trade.

If we really are running out of oil, what's going to happen is politics as usual till the lights just go out.

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Salty

THANKSGIVING MENUS AND TIPS

A GREAT PLACE TO SHOP

I'm glad you think you're right, but the matter is by no means as simple as you think it is.

Here's the thing ... it's not OUR oil. If you want to nationalize the oil industry then you could make that argument.
I embrace conservation. Let's all conserve our hearts out, but let's not be so stupid that we think doing so is going to make a dramatic impact to the global demand for oil, and thus the price. Sure, let's do both.Great. You have diagnosed the problem. You haven't come up with a solution. I'm all for higher fuel standards and indeed the auto industry is reacting to consumer demands. Things are working in the right direction but you sound as if you want some all powerful government to over-regulate the matter.

What's your point? $1.90 AUD per litre equates to $6.89 USD per gallon today. Are you saying we should increase taxes on gasoline?

All this self-loathing isn't the answer, you know.

Kinda crazy isn't it, considering how much more Australians and Europeans pay for fuel.

You're typing on and on like a shotgun. I need you to substantiate your claims about Chinese fuel standards and also to remind you that China has nationalized it's oil industry and indeed subsidizes oil to make it cheaper for it's people to buy. Places like China and India are actually doing whatever they can to get as much oil as possible and are encouraging increased useage. Shouldn't you be upset about that as well?

I don't know about Cheney, but I do recall a recent snippet that noted Bush will be the first President to leave office with a lower networth then when he went in to office. If someone honestly thinks Bush/Cheney are profitting or in cahoots with oil executives, it's time to start putting up or shutting up. I'm tired of people fear-mongering and spewing bullshit when they have no evidence to back up their accusations ... and by evidence I mean legitimate sources, not whacko left wing conspiracy theory sources.

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You missed the point. I do think there is a conspiracy. I didn't used to. But there is too much evidence that this recent activity is not related to any economic change. If that were true there would have been a steady rise. Directly related to the growth of our global competition.

Lets just think a minute. What are the chances of the oil companies receiving cheap leases for drilling. And lower environmental standards for building refineries if the left takes over the government in Nov.?
What are their chances of being taxed for their windfall profits? All of which translates to billions of dollars. Not even counting their stock prices. Your best last ditch effort to gain any of these things is an increase in gas prices. Now as they come to the end of their grip on power they want all they can get. And what is the easiest way to get the people on board? Higher prices. So now the polls show that people think drilling ANWAR is our only hope. So they did it. They convinced our collective dumb asses that we can drill our way out. I have to give them credit. They sure know how to pull one over on us. If ANWAR was pumping full time right now. And we still had $4 gas what would be the next big idea? Sooner or later we will decrease our consumption. I would rather it be by choice. But the way the American people think it will be because we have maxed out or credit cards.

Of course he won't say. That's because the costs of producing oil haven't risen, nor is there a shortage. Even the North Sea oil platforms are raising oil at less than $9 a barrel. and they're usually the highest cost producers. Even in the swamps of Venezuela, it cost on average less than $4.30 a barrel to raise.

What you see here is the same thing you saw in the last 'energy crisis'; a weakness in government policies and international relations, preventing any concerted effort to reign in price gouging. This is purely a huge money grab, probably a last gasp before the world economy tanks for good. 'Free trade' was anything but free, it was just another 'miracle' bubble of tax subsidies and massive, unconscionable labor racketeering run on an international scale.

We're just repeating history here.