Originally Posted by AzMike

Nice job 40 and PT, you are keeping the rest of us from having to reply to this dense woman.

Originally Posted by Xcali

The first Bush tax cuts ( 2001 and 2003) cost 1.8 trillion over 10 years. The second round of cuts which came in 2008 and 2010 by way of Stimulus cost and additional 1.5 trillion... Yes this includes the Obama Stimulus.

This roughly 118 Billion a year...............Which if you go back to the charts we have been posting was covered. This is all Hindsite = 20/20 now. Taxes should have been raised. But you do not get to beat Bush over the head when Obama has lowered them even more while claiming Bush did it.

And I've never claimed the tax cuts alone caused the deficits. Read back and you will see I have said all along the tax cuts + increased spending caused the surplus to become a deficit.

Spending is roughly 44% of the deficits.. Tax cuts 28% According to the CBO
CBO Figures Dispel Myth that Bush Tax Cuts Caused Today's Deficit | Tax Foundation

And as I have pointed out the tax cuts were covered. Now its all a moot point because Congress did not do their job and balance the budget when they decided to go to war and grow the government.

The growth of the Government yes, it did have a big impact, but that goes to the spending side. There is a need for some Public Sector jobs but when you grow the Government by creating new entities it doubles your spending. And when you don't offset the cost with revenue it causes unbalance in the budget. I harp on the Bush tax cuts because that was the starting point to the destruction of the economy.



Whoa.. did you peg that one wrong. I'm just as pissed at Obama for extending the Bush tax cuts and implementing his own tax cuts as I am at Bush for starting the ball rolling down hill. I have said before that Obama screwed up big time cutting the Payroll tax to 4%. That was one of the Dumbest moves in his Presidency so far. I totally understand why he thought it was a good Idea... but then again not every Idea turns out to be so good.



We start with the wars. In the end both wars are going to come with a price tag of roughly 4 trillion dollars, all of it borrowed money that we are now paying interest on.

Cost of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for US: $4 trillion | PRI.ORG

The recession wasn't what drove the economy over the cliff, we were already well on our way before the Recession hit. The damage was done when the housing Market collapsed, which in turn caused the massive jobs lost and drove unemployment through the roof.

The TARP bill also costs us because again, all borrowed money that still has not been returned as some like to believe.

Bailout Scorecard | Eye on the Bailout | ProPublica
The Bailout: Initiatives and Programs | Eye on the Bailout | ProPublica
Bailout List: Banks, Auto Companies, and More | Eye on the Bailout | ProPublica

So yes, we're left holding the bag and we're all given a choice. Sadly there are only two options on the table which have a chance to actually win. For me it's easy.. President Obama has been involved for 4 years, he has a inside view of what is going on in the economy as well as in the foreign affairs area. He has a plan that will hopefully reverse many of the mistakes that led us into this hole but he has been unable to implement his plan to even find out if it will work. I suspect that's why the Republicans are blocking him, they know it will work and they simply can't afford to let that happen politically .

Then there is Romney.. A man with no plan . He will simply follow what the party leaders tell him to do and their solution is to double down on the very same policy that put us here to begin with. Two things Romney has said in his campaign so far... Take out all the lies, Vitriol, and rhetoric and get to just his simple policy Idea..

1: I will cut taxes across the board by 20%...

2: I will set the floor of Defense spending at 4 % of GDP. ( meaning I will increase defense spending...

Now just think about that... Cut taxes?.. Really?.... Taxes are lower now than any time since the 30's... Do we Really NEED less revenue? Oh he claims it will be revenue Neutral but he doesn't tell you exactly what he will do to even it out. What he is going to do is eliminate tax write offs, credits, and everything the Middle class depends on which in turn will RAISE taxes on the middle class.

Defense spending should speak for itself, we already spend more than the next 13 countries combined.. We don't need more waste.

Originally Posted by Xcali

Again with the nonsense.. All talk no action ... I understand you can't dispute the evidence but I thought maybe you would at least bring more than lame insults and fantasy ....

How ya like my new signature... Kind of fitting , especially when you jump into a topic.....

Originally Posted by PT Again

This whole thing is getting out of hand. I dont want to argue any more. You are not going to like what I have to say about Obama's
"plans" or lack thier of. Democrats will be losing both Houses of Congress most likely so no matter who is president we are doomed to suffer.

Originally Posted by AZRWinger

Let's examine the food fight contention that Obama is not responsible for the lion's share of the 2009 budget because it belongs to the previous administration. The CBO estimates this FY will produce a deficit of $1.1 trillion. There is no indication Obama will cut spending so it is safe to assume FY 13 will be more of the same. That brings the total addition to the national debt under Obama to over $5 trillion using your preferred methodology. That is nearly equal to the total of the previous administration in half the time.

Of course this is just an estimate actuals will probably come in higher if Obamacare implementation goes forward.

Originally Posted by Xcali

You're entitled to your opinion of Obama's Plan, Personally I think the fact that Former President Bill Clinton has a lot of credibility where policy is concerned and HE endorses the Obama plan, so I guess we'll have to wait and see. All I do know is that Romney intends to double down on Bush Era Policy of slashing taxes on the rich and raising defense spending.. that won't help fix anything.

And the Democrats are going to hold the Senate . Hell they may even pick up the 25 seats needed to take back the house.. Starting with that Akin guy in Missouri the radical right will slowly bury themselves ... That's my opinion at least.

Originally Posted by Xcali

See what you don't seem to get is that it's not open to debate... It's a fact of reality. Going all the way back the incoming President has never been tagged with the immediate economy left by the out going President. It's not MY opinion, or one that I made up to bash Bush.. it's just a plain fact and that is that...

You Right wingers love to forget the fact that the Obama administration also gets credited with the interest on the debt.. Which if you add that to spending of course it's going to look unbalanced. But take the Actual spending initiatives under each man and let him take credit for his own spending.. Bush beats Obama 10 to 1 hands down.

The Deficit in 2012 is projected at 1.1 trillion.. that is down from the 1.4 trillion Bush left us with. The F2013 deficit is projected at 900 billion.. Looks like a down trend to me.

In fact if the Congress would have gotten their act together and passed the 2010 budget the deficit would have in fact been cut in half this year, just like Obama Promised.

It didn't work out that way because of political morons in Washington putting their own interests ahead of the peoples.. And don't think I'm attacking just Republicans because I'm not. Both Parties are to blame for Congresses failures.

Originally Posted by PT Again

My point is Obama's plan will never get implimented. I don't think you are nieve enough to be believe it will. If they couldnt do it with a Super Majority..........its not happening.

Originally Posted by PT Again

Lets not play the deficit is projected game please. The deficit will be higher. The CBO estimate is only good if the Bush tax cuts expire. If not the deficit will be higher.

"Impacts also include laws set to expire such as the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, unemployment insurance reauthorization, emergency unemployment benefits and a Social Security payroll tax holiday."

CBO Outlines Projected FY 2012 Deficit, Future Impacts

Originally Posted by Xcali

It's not naive to believe in the possibility of it, in fact there is a high probability that if given a second term Obama should be in a position to get exactly what he wants from the Republicans. Regardless of what some people might say about the man he is not stupid. He has been feeding the Republicans the rope now for four years and they are about to hang themselves..

Remember.. All Obama has to do to get his Way is NOTHING. Jan 1st the Bush/Obama tax cuts expire. The Payroll tax cut expires. Extended unemployment expires. And 1 trillion dollars worth of spending cuts go into effect, half of which is defense spending. Will this send us back into a Recession?... It's possible. But what happens on January 2nd when the Democrats introduce a bill to cut all but the top two tax brackets back to the Bush error? What if they add another bill that would ease the burden of the Spending cuts, maybe stretch them out over more years ?.. Do you really think the Republicans are going to say no?.... I don't.


And the only held a super Majority for about 4 months.. just long enough to pass healthcare and they didn't pass that with a Super Majority. They passed it through reconciliation, which is basically a end of round to the Filibuster rule.