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Open Discussion Discuss Exporting the Anti-Gay Movement at the General Forum; Originally Posted by dabateman Your denial is convenient isn't it... It's not terribly complicated. Pro-family here in the United States ...

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Old 04-26-2012, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: Exporting the Anti-Gay Movement

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Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
Your denial is convenient isn't it...

It's not terribly complicated. Pro-family here in the United States means anti-gay, so why wouldn't it mean anti-gay in Uganda? Oh wait. It obviously does. And giving them money to support a "pro-family" conference knowing that the money is used by a terrorist organization to enforce the Ten Commandments at gunpoint? Christians are the people behind these horrible things. I'm not saying that they are horrible people, unless they meant for this to happen with their funding/support. But if they meant for it to happen they should be charged with accessory. If they didn't mean for it to happen they should be forced to take an up close view of the things done to these Ugandan homosexuals.

But nice how you change the subject. First you denied that it was even Christian. Now you're denying that the events are even taking place. Anything to avoid the reality.
Pro family is not anti gay. Not agreeing with a lifestyle hardly equates to going out in lynch mobs to hang them which is the correlation the author was making and now you are as well.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: Exporting the Anti-Gay Movement

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Pro family is not anti gay. Not agreeing with a lifestyle hardly equates to going out in lynch mobs to hang them which is the correlation the author was making and now you are as well.
Actually, that's exactly what it means.

The pro-family groups cannot get away with such here in the United States, but they do raise money and send it to Uganda where the money is used to persecute homosexuals often to death. The American Christians are indeed responsible for their contribution to the violence against homosexuals in Uganda.

Pro-family is anti-gay. There is not one "pro-family" organization that has stood up for the rights of a gay family. They're not interested in family. They are interested in the euphemism so they can continue their anti-gay bigotry. Which is fine, but we should have the common sense to call a spade a spade.
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: Exporting the Anti-Gay Movement

I did not realize South Africa was so bad


TUTU 'WILL BURN IN HELL' | Mambaonline.com
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A Cape Town pastor has called gays and lesbians drug addicts and child molesters and said that Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu will burn in hell for supporting the LGBT community.

The Rev Oscar Peter Bougardt, a Christian Minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and senior pastor at Calvary H.O.P.E Ministries in Mitchells Plain, launched his extraordinary tirade against gay and lesbian people in unsolicited e-mails to local LGBT websites.

In the shocking and badly-written e-mails, Bougardt said that his "mission is to take out all lesbians and gays because they are a bunch of idiots who confuse our children".

The pastor also said that "their lifestyle is an abomination to God and that gays and lesbians should know that they are going to burn in hell".

He ranted that the "majority of them are drug addicts, and they offer our teenagers and children drugs and alcohol and once they are drugged and drunk they are seduced and end up having sexual relation with them".

Bougardt also claimed that gay men are increasingly seducing apparently hapless straight men away from their heterosexual families and wives, insisting that this "is not a rare phenomenon".

"Lesbians and gays are a curse on any community. I believe that a man that sleeps with another man doesn’t deserve to be part of a healthy community and I will mobilise the masses to stop them," said the pastor.

When contacted by Mambaonline, Bougardt was unrepentant. We asked if he was not concerned that his comments could incite violence against gays and lesbians but he denied that this was his intention.

“If I say take out homosexuals, I mean they must be removed from our communities…You interpret that I am inciting violence against homosexuals, I see it is making our people aware that their lifestyles should not be approved by any healthy community. Just as homosexuals have the right to express their views, I have the right to express mine," he said.

Mambaonline asked Bougardt if he had any kind of academic, official or scientific support for his claims that most gay people are drug addicts and engage in raping children and seducing heterosexual married men.

"Where I stay you don’t need academic, government or scientific statistics," he said, adding that "homosexuality is spreading faster than HIV and AIDS".


Mambaonline also asked how he could be so sure of God's views on homosexuality when other Christian leaders, such as Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu, held a contrary opinion, to which Bougardt replied:

"Desmond Tutu will burn in hell for misleading homosexuals and for saying God don’t have a problem with them. I don’t care what Desmond Tutu have to say, nowhere in the Bible are we told to expect homosexuals. The Bible teaches they are an abomination to God."

In his e-mail to Mambaonline, Bougardt attached a picture of himself "so that you and all your readers know how I look, and to give you the assurance I don’t care how you or your readers feel about me".
and, this one on "corrective rape" and a lack of justice:
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South Africa gay rights activists warn of homophobic attacks after murder

Human rights campaigners have warned of an "epidemic" of brutal homophobic attacks in South Africa after the murder and alleged gang rape of a lesbian activist.

Noxolo Nogwaza was killed last month after what appeared to be a so-called "corrective rape", an increasingly common crime in which men rape lesbians to "turn" them straight or "cure" them of their sexual orientation.

The 24-year-old's face and head were disfigured by stoning, she was stabbed several times with broken glass and evidence suggested she was raped. A beer bottle, a big rock and used condoms were found on and near her body.

...Nogwaza's death came three years after that of another activist, international footballer Eudy Simelane, also in Kwa-Thema. Both were "out" as lesbians in the community, both were apparently tortured and sexually assaulted before being killed, and the bodies of both were dumped in public places.

Campaigners say that 31 lesbians have been murdered because of their sexuality in the past decade and more than 10 lesbians a week are raped or gang raped in Cape Town alone.

Human Rights Watch noted that no arrests have been made and claimed homophobic violence is continuing unchecked in South Africa's townships.

So, do you really think Rev Oscar Peter Bougardt wasn't meaning to incite violence?
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:01 PM
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Default Re: Exporting the Anti-Gay Movement

The OP is a little hysterical, and makes some broad-based, unsubstantiated claims, while committing sins of omission.

This issue seems to center on a Ugandan anti-homosexuality bill a Uganda politician named David Bahati and his supporters has been trying unsuccessfully to push through Ugandan parliament since 2010.

David Bahati - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is an anti-homosexuality movement in Africa with guys representing themselves as Christians supporting it. Some are from the West. However as far as the claims of Mega-churches wanting to kill people, where's that coming from?

The three main guys from the west appear to be these guys, and they think the bill goes too far.

Quote:
During March 2009, Scott Lively met with several legislators and Minister of Ethics and Integrity James Buturo. He followed his visit with a post to his blog saying that he was "overjoyed with the results of our efforts and predicted confidently that the coming weeks would see significant improvement in the moral climate of the nation, and a massive increase in pro-family activism in every social sphere. [Conference organiser Stephen Langa] said that a respected observer of society in Kampala had told him that our campaign was like a nuclear bomb against the 'gay' agenda in Uganda. I pray that this, and the predictions, are true."[38] However, Lively has responded to the bill, saying "I agree with the general goal but this law is far too harsh... Society should actively discourage all sex outside of marriage and that includes homosexuality ... The family is under threat... [Gay people] should not be parading around the streets."[39] Lively has said the bill is a reaction to attempts by Americans and Europeans to "homosexualize" Ugandan society. He further claimed that Ugandan leaders who created the bill are worried about "the many male homosexuals coming in to the country and abusing boys who are on the streets".[40] Richard Cohen has stated he condemns the bill, and that the punitive measures in it are "incomprehensible".[34] Don Schmierer expressed his shock at the legislation, telling The New York Times that although he outlined how homosexuals could change to heterosexual in the March 2009 conference, his involvement was limited to giving seminars to Africans about better parenting skills: "[The bill is] horrible, absolutely horrible... Some of the nicest people I have ever met are gay people."[11]
Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Bill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As far as "Mega-churches" go, here's the reaction of some of them to the proposed bill.

Quote:
Several Christian organisations oppose it, including the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Church of Canada, Integrity Uganda, Exodus International, Accepting Evangelicals, Changing Attitude, Courage, Ekklesia, Fulcrum, Inclusive Church and the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement. Exodus International sent a letter to President Museveni stating, "The Christian church ... must be permitted to extend the love and compassion of Christ to all. We believe that this legislation would make this mission a difficult if not impossible task to carry out."[60] A group of U.S. Christian leaders have released a statement to Uganda about the bill, one of these leaders being Thomas Patrick Melady, former U.S. Ambassador to Uganda.[61] The Anglican Reverend Canon Gideon Byamugisha said that the Bill "would become state-legislated genocide".[62]

Following private discussions with the Ugandan Anglican Church, the Archbishop of Canterbury Dr. Rowan Williams has said in a public interview that he did not see how any Anglican could support it: "Overall, the proposed legislation is of shocking severity and I can’t see how it could be supported by any Anglican who is committed to what the Communion has said in recent decades. Apart from invoking the death penalty, it makes pastoral care impossible – it seeks to turn pastors into informers."[63]

Divisions emerged in the Anglican community however. In response to the Anglican Church of Canada intervention, the Bishop of Karamoja Diocese, Joseph Abura, wrote an editorial saying, "Ugandan Parliament, the watch dog of our laws, please go ahead and put the anti-Gay laws in place. It is then that we become truly accountable to our young and to this country, not to Canada or England. We are in charge!"[64] While the Anglican Church in Uganda opposes the death penalty, its archbishop, Henry Luke Orombi, has not taken a position on the bill.[65] Some individuals within the Anglican church, such as retired bishop Christopher Senyonjo, from the West Buganda diocese, have been vocally opposed to the bill and supportive of LGBT rights in Uganda. In 2010, Bishop Senyonjo was touring the United States to draw attention to the bill.[66]

Uganda's Catholic Archbishop of Kampala Cyprian Lwanga stated in December 2009 that the bill was unnecessary and "at odds with the core values" of Christianity, expressing particular concerns at the death penalty provisions. Lwanga argued that instead homosexuals should be encouraged to seek rehabilitation.[67] For its part, the Holy See has maintained excellent relations with Uganda, with Pope Benedict XVI receiving the Ugandan ambassador in December 2009 and commending the climate of freedom and respect in the country towards the Catholic Church. During this meeting, there was no mention of the anti-homosexuality bill.[68] However, three days earlier the Vatican legal attaché to the United Nations stated that "Pope Benedict is opposed to 'unjust discrimination' against gay men and lesbians".[69]
But let's damn Christianity in general with claims of aspirations to kill homosexuals, shall we.

In the meantime Homosexuals actually are being put to death in Muslim countries, but let's not pull back that curtain.
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:13 PM
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Default Re: Exporting the Anti-Gay Movement

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Your denial is convenient isn't it...
Well, *****ing on Christianity because they don't all act alike is akin to ****ing on all gays because some are child molesters.....


Mike's point was absolutely valid.....
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Exporting the Anti-Gay Movement

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Originally Posted by Infidel Dog View Post
The OP is a little hysterical, and makes some broad-based, unsubstantiated claims, while committing sins of omission.

This issue seems to center on a Ugandan anti-homosexuality bill a Uganda politician named David Bahati and his supporters has been trying unsuccessfully to push through Ugandan parliament since 2010.

David Bahati - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is an anti-homosexuality movement in Africa with guys representing themselves as Christians supporting it. Some are from the West. However as far as the claims of Mega-churches wanting to kill people, where's that coming from?

The three main guys from the west appear to be these guys, and they think the bill goes too far.



Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Bill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As far as "Mega-churches" go, here's the reaction of some of them to the proposed bill.



But let's damn Christianity in general with claims of aspirations to kill homosexuals, shall we.

In the meantime Homosexuals actually are being put to death in Muslim countries, but let's not pull back that curtain.
The Islamic curtain has been repeatedly pulled.

You just keep avoiding the Christian curtain like the plague.

Homosexuals in Africa are treated abysmally - by both major religions. In fact, the OP points out the role of the American missionary movement in this, and it's not solely Uganda.

But keep on excusing if you need to.
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Exporting the Anti-Gay Movement

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Originally Posted by Dave1 View Post
Well, *****ing on Christianity because they don't all act alike is akin to ****ing on all gays because some are child molesters.....


Mike's point was absolutely valid.....
Well put.
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:24 PM
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You just keep avoiding the Christian curtain like the plague.

Homosexuals in Africa are treated abysmally - by both major religions.

What is the root of the problem, Africa or Christianity......?

Africa has been a ****hole for several hundred years, regardless of any "religion" they hide behind......

American Muslisms are nothing like the hate fed terrorists in the Middle East....

~ Blame Africa before you condemn Christianity......
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:51 PM
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What is the root of the problem, Africa or Christianity......?
Hard to say, but I'm going to guess it's a blend of both. Christianity has long held that homosexuality is an abomination against God. We've had anti-sodomy laws to support that view. That's undeniable. That view is evolving (and it has evolved much further than Islam at this point) but it is still far from a majority view - in fact, it's creating schisms in the faith.

Quote:
Africa has been a ****hole for several hundred years, regardless of any "religion" they hide behind......
That's true, however - how much of it is Africa and how much of it is outside meddling from missionaries?

Quote:
American Muslisms are nothing like the hate fed terrorists in the Middle East....
Absolutely


Quote:
~ Blame Africa before you condemn Christianity......
In otherwords culture over religion?
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Old 05-11-2012, 01:32 PM
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In otherwords culture over religion?
I believe so.....

American Islam vs. Middle East Islam is a fair example to support my contention.....


It depends on how it's taught and who teaches it......

The so called "Christian" Westboro Baptist Church is taught to hate. They don't represent mainstream American Christians but, they live in America.....

That's why I find fault with man, not the religion.......
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