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Open Discussion Discuss U.S. Gov't Agency Plans $2.84 Billion Loan for Oil Refinery—In Colombia at the General Forum; Originally Posted by camaraderie The problem is that you CAN'T build a refinery here anymore...or a nuke plant. Might as ...

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Old 04-18-2011, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: U.S. Gov't Agency Plans $2.84 Billion Loan for Oil Refinery—In Colombia

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Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
The problem is that you CAN'T build a refinery here anymore...or a nuke plant.
Might as well build 'em in Columbia... and let the Chinese drill for Gulf Oil while we subsidize GE windmills and send the taxpayers the bill.

Bottom line...any project that regular banks won't finance...ain't a good deal. We have no need for any quasi government entities making marketplace decisions. Just look at how Fannie/Freddie do with that right here at home!

My guess is that the ex-im bank is really a tool of foreign policy...not economic policy. In this case...a reward for continued cooperation on the war on drugs, help for a friendly government and some good news for Columbia since the free trade agreement is in limbo due to the union opposition.
And I'll reiterate from the article.

Quote:
The financing, when finally approved, will support the purchases of equipment and services from over 150 large and small U.S. engineering/design, equipment supply, contracting and process license firms, including Chicago Bridge & Iron, Foster Wheeler, Exxon/Mobil and UOP.

This is part of a $5.18 billion refinery and upgrade project in Cartagena, Colombia supplying petroleum products to the domestic and export markets. About four percent of the transaction will directly benefit small businesses. The transaction will help create or sustain over 15,000 American jobs for a total of four years.
We get our money back with interest, (profit) plus create jobs and increase sales of US products and services. This is a good thing....right? Where is the problem?
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:11 AM
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Default Re: U.S. Gov't Agency Plans $2.84 Billion Loan for Oil Refinery—In Colombia

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Originally Posted by sunwestdog View Post
And I'll reiterate from the article.



We get our money back with interest, (profit) plus create jobs and increase sales of US products and services. This is a good thing....right? Where is the problem?
Like we did with GM?
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:14 AM
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Default Re: U.S. Gov't Agency Plans $2.84 Billion Loan for Oil Refinery—In Colombia

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Originally Posted by Terence P. Jeffrey for CNSNews.com
If the $2.84 billion loan to Reficar to expand and upgrade its Colombian refinery creates or sustains the 15,000 jobs in the United States that the bank believes it will create or sustain that would work out to $189,333 per job.
This is most instructive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terence P. Jeffrey for CNSNews.com
According to the National Petrochemical & Refiners Association (NPRA), 95 percent of the gasoline purchased by U.S. consumers is refined inside the United States, meaning that expanding the gasoline refining capacity of Colombia is unlikely to have a significant impact on the supply of refined gasoline in the Untied States.
And so is this.

In the end, however, this support for oil refining in Colombia dovetails quite nicely with President Obama's core beliefs, which appear to go something like this: It is just hunky-dorey for others (such as, say, Brazil) do drill for oil, and then sell that oil to the US--especially if the country in question is not openly hostile to the US--but it would be a severe violation of some leftist taboo for the US to drill off its own shores, or in ANWR in Alaska...
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:04 PM
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Default Re: U.S. Gov't Agency Plans $2.84 Billion Loan for Oil Refinery—In Colombia

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
This is most instructive.


And so is this.

In the end, however, this support for oil refining in Colombia dovetails quite nicely with President Obama's core beliefs, which appear to go something like this: It is just hunky-dorey for others (such as, say, Brazil) do drill for oil, and then sell that oil to the US--especially if the country in question is not openly hostile to the US--but it would be a severe violation of some leftist taboo for the US to drill off its own shores, or in ANWR in Alaska...
Creates jobs though.
And last I heard America doesn't own any oil wells. People do. These people sell to whomever they want and we have no discount advantage for letting them drill our resources.
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: U.S. Gov't Agency Plans $2.84 Billion Loan for Oil Refinery—In Colombia

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
This is most instructive.


And so is this.

In the end, however, this support for oil refining in Colombia dovetails quite nicely with President Obama's core beliefs, which appear to go something like this: It is just hunky-dorey for others (such as, say, Brazil) do drill for oil, and then sell that oil to the US--especially if the country in question is not openly hostile to the US--but it would be a severe violation of some leftist taboo for the US to drill off its own shores, or in ANWR in Alaska...
I don't think that I would read much more into this than a normal transaction between the IN-EX Bank and a foreign nation. This what they have been doing since 1945. I rather doubt Obama had anything to do with it.

And I really don't think there is any taboo against drilling off our shores except by a few hard core environmentalists and those living on those shores. Obama has actually been very friendly towards drilling for oil.

Obama to Open Offshore Areas to Oil Drilling for First Time - NYTimes.com

Quote:
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is proposing to open vast expanses of water along the Atlantic coastline, the eastern Gulf of Mexico and the north coast of Alaska to oil and natural gas drilling, much of it for the first time, officials said Tuesday.
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: U.S. Gov't Agency Plans $2.84 Billion Loan for Oil Refinery—In Colombia

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Originally Posted by sunwestdog View Post
And I really don't think there is any taboo against drilling off our shores except by a few hard core environmentalists and those living on those shores. Obama has actually been very friendly towards drilling for oil.

Obama to Open Offshore Areas to Oil Drilling for First Time - NYTimes.com
Bullsh*t...

From the article...Pay close attention to the FIFTH WORD...

Quote:
The Obama administration is proposing to open vast expanses of water along the Atlantic coastline, the eastern Gulf of Mexico and the north coast of Alaska to oil and natural gas drilling, much of it for the first time, officials said Tuesday.

The proposal — a compromise that will please oil companies and domestic drilling advocates but anger some residents of affected states and many environmental organizations — would end a longstanding moratorium on oil exploration along the East Coast from the northern tip of Delaware to the central coast of Florida, covering 167 million acres of ocean
Proposals are lip-service...ACTIONS are different from proposals...

Where are the ACTIONS?....(Oh yeah...There aren't any)...

Your source is from one month BEFORE the Deep Horizon explosion...That changed everything in Obama's eyes...So much so that he had to be SUED in order to allow permits...

From last month...

Obama Administration Will Appeal Judge’s Order On Drilling Permits

Quote:
The Obama administration will appeal a ruling from a federal judge who has ordered it to act on pending permits for oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, a cabinet official said Wednesday.

The administration has said it will comply with the judge’s order to act on five pending applications by the end of next week. But it will dispute the court’s authority to make such decisions in the future, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said Wednesday.

“We will be taking an appeal of the judge’s decision,” Salazar said at a hearing of the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Interior, Environment, and Related Agencies. The appeal will target “what I consider to be an overreach into administrative authority,” Salazar said.
Obama "friendly" towards drilling for oil????...That statement should come with a laughtrack...
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:51 PM
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Default Re: U.S. Gov't Agency Plans $2.84 Billion Loan for Oil Refinery—In Colombia

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Creates jobs though.
Now let me get this straight.

The American left does not really oppose our drilling for oil in the US because of one of its chief totems, The Environment.

Of course not.

It merely believes that more American jobs can be created if we refuse to drill for oil domestically, and purchase our oil from other countries.

Is that what you are saying?
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: U.S. Gov't Agency Plans $2.84 Billion Loan for Oil Refinery—In Colombia

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Bullsh*t...

From the article...Pay close attention to the FIFTH WORD...

Proposals are lip-service...ACTIONS are different from proposals...

Where are the ACTIONS?....(Oh yeah...There aren't any)...

Your source is from one month BEFORE the Deep Horizon explosion...That changed everything in Obama's eyes...So much so that he had to be SUED in order to allow permits...

From last month...

Obama Administration Will Appeal Judge’s Order On Drilling Permits

Obama "friendly" towards drilling for oil????...That statement should come with a laughtrack...
Sorry, I posted an older article. Here's something more current. I guess he got over that whole oil spill thing.

Fuel Fix U.S. approves 10th post-ban deep-water drilling project

Quote:
The federal government today gave Statoil permission to drill a deep-water well — marking the tenth such project approved since the Obama administration halted such work in the wake of last year’s Gulf spill.
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: U.S. Gov't Agency Plans $2.84 Billion Loan for Oil Refinery—In Colombia

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Now let me get this straight.

The American left does not really oppose our drilling for oil in the US because of one of its chief totems, The Environment.

Of course not.

It merely believes that more American jobs can be created if we refuse to drill for oil domestically, and purchase our oil from other countries.

Is that what you are saying?
I think salt's point was more simple and direct than that. The thread started out criticizing the gov. for loaning money we can't afford And to add insult to injury, to a foreign oil company. Since the IN-EX bank doesn't loan money to US companies on US soil, you need to look on the bright side and consider how many US jobs it will create via the IN-EX doing their job.
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Old 04-20-2011, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: U.S. Gov't Agency Plans $2.84 Billion Loan for Oil Refinery—In Colombia

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Originally Posted by sunwestdog View Post
Sorry, I posted an older article. Here's something more current. I guess he got over that whole oil spill thing.

Fuel Fix U.S. approves 10th post-ban deep-water drilling project
No...he DIDN'T "get over that whole oil spill thing...

He was ruled he HAD to start doling out the permits BY FORCE OF A JUDGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...

The lawsuit covered a shallow water drilling...the judge ruled on ALL of them...

Judge orders government to take action on drilling applications within 30 days

Quote:
U.S. District Court Judge Martin Feldman granted a motion for a preliminary injunction against the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management Thursday in a suit brought by the shallow water drilling company Ensco Offshore Co., and ordered the regulatory agency to act on five pending permit applications within 30 days.

The bureau is also required to report its compliance to the court.

Before the Deepwater Horizon disaster last April, it took about two weeks to process drilling permits, but the five permits in question in the Ensco case have been pending for between four and nine months.

After resolving questions about whether the court had the authority to impose a time frame for an agency decision, Feldman decided to intervene, saying that the Department of Interior has a duty to act on permit applications after accepting them for review. Feldman determined that the delay in permit actions was "unreasonable."

"The permitting backlog becomes increasingly inexcusable," Feldman wrote. "Perhaps it is reasonable for permit applicants to wait more than two weeks in a necessarily more closely regulated environment. Delays of four months and more in the permitting process are unreasonable, unacceptable and unjustified by the evidence before the Court."

Feldman further stated that it appears that the government hasn't considered any applications that fell within the scope of the moratorium issued after the April 20 explosion and subsequent oil spill.
This isn't Obama turning a new leaf...This is Obama getting his ass handed to him...

THAT is why the permits are going forward now...Not because Obama WANTS them to (He clearly doesn't), but it's because he HAS to...
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