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Open Discussion Discuss Obama is ineffective so where do we go from here? at the General Forum; Originally Posted by lizzie What we need is someone who is pro- private sector and looks at the economy as ...

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Old 11-17-2010, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Obama is ineffective so where do we go from here?

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Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
What we need is someone who is pro- private sector and looks at the economy as something that should benefit the individual, and not as something to control and use for the benefit of the government.
That would mean that lobbyists and the companies that control both party's will have to go........


Don't hold your breath on that one.......


Until Lobbyists are cut out of the equation and their influence over our congress members is outlawed, don't expect any major changes.......


The higher up the ladder, the more similar both party's become on blue chip issues......
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Obama is ineffective so where do we go from here?

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Originally Posted by Dave1 View Post
That would mean that lobbyists and the companies that control both party's will have to go........


Don't hold your breath on that one.......


Until Lobbyists are cut out of the equation and their influence over our congress members is outlawed, don't expect any major changes.......


The higher up the ladder, the more similar both party's become on blue chip issues......
I agree, and I won't hold my breath for fear of passing out.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: Obama is ineffective so where do we go from here?

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Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
What did Reagan do that you didn't like?
Cut taxes without cutting spending. Totally screwed the pooch IMHO. You can't do one without the other.
Then a Democrat came along (Clinton) and did get something on paper about 'welfare to work' but I see more healthy people on the dole than ever before.

edited to say: I also didn't get a kick out of Regan's amnesty plan and the fact we now have to show id to work but at the same time it doesn't prevent illegals working.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:03 PM
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Default Re: Obama is ineffective so where do we go from here?

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Just admitting that for whatever reason from your political viewpoint, Obama's administration is starting to be non effective. Non leaderly if I may borrow a ploy from Palin and invent a word here.
I disagree that his first two years were ineffective. With both houses of congress and the presidency controlled by the same party, they effectively managed to pass quite a few bills (not that I agreed with the bills passed).
I do agree that he isn't a leader, I think Ms Pelosi and Mr Reid lead that charge. Now that the house is controlled by the other party, he hasn't been nuetered, but he's definitely been kicked in the groin.

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So let's just say we agree on that point and ask ourselves, what next?
The economy is the big issue of course. And maybe 2012 is a big issue too since the leader of the free world still holds most of the cards (admittedly in a deck that is on slow burn).

Say his term and his agenda are finished as in it's a given.
How to get us on the right path?
And are there any suggestions who to run -obviously for Republican-in 2012?
A few people that have impressed me are Paul Ryan from Wisconsin, Allen West from Florida, Chris Christie from New Jersey, Rick Perry from Texas, Jan Brewer from Arizona, and still one of my favorites is Condi Rice. Ms Rice has already expressed the fact that she has no interest in remaining in politics, and perhaps that is one of the reason I like her so much.
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Oh one more thing. Since the agenda will (arguably) be set by the GOP should there be a greater push to get the veto proof majority or is the teaparty work pretty much done here?
I disagree that the GOP will control the agenda, the Presidency and the Senate are still both controlled by the democrats, they still have the upper hand. I think more important than a veto proof congress would be to get rid of the incumbent lifers in congress and get some fresh blood.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Obama is ineffective so where do we go from here?

Condoleezza Rice has been over achiever-successful at every job she's had. Yea it would be nice to have her as President.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Obama is ineffective so where do we go from here?

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Cut taxes without cutting spending. Totally screwed the pooch IMHO. You can't do one without the other.
Then a Democrat came along (Clinton) and did get something on paper about 'welfare to work' but I see more healthy people on the dole than ever before.

edited to say: I also didn't get a kick out of Regan's amnesty plan and the fact we now have to show id to work but at the same time it doesn't prevent illegals working.
Something you may be interested in reading:

excerpt:
Quote:
Tax Cuts and National Income
Contrasting the size of the tax cuts with national income shows that the Kennedy tax cut, representing 1.9 percent of income, was the single largest first-year tax-cut of the post-WW II era. The Reagan tax cuts represented 1.4 percent of income while none of the Bush tax cut even breaks 1 percent of income. The Kennedy tax cuts would only have been surpassed in size by combining all three Bush tax cuts into a single package.
Tax Cuts and Budget Resources
Comparing the size of these tax cuts with the federal budget shows that the Kennedy’s tax cuts represented 8.8 percent of the budget. In 1981, Reagan’s tax cuts represented 5.3 percent of the budget. Each of Bush’s tax cuts are smaller than Reagan’s—EGTRRA (3.8 percent), JCWA (2.5 percent) and the 2003 Tax Cut (1.8 percent). When the Bush tax cuts are combined (8.1 percent), they would be larger than Reagan’s tax cut, yet smaller than Kennedy’s tax cut.
Tax Cuts and Defense Costs
When the Kennedy tax cuts were enacted, defense spending constituted a whopping 42.1 percent of the federal budget. When President Reagan pushed though his tax cuts, the Pentagon consumed 22 percent of the budget. Today, defense spending consumes just 17.1 percent of the budget—25 percentage points below Kennedy’s defense spending.
Tax Cuts and Deficits
President Kennedy passed his tax cuts as he ran a deficit equaling 1 percent of national income. In 1981, Reagan cut taxes while running a deficit of 2.8 percent of national income. In contrast, Bush passed the largest of his three tax cuts, EGTRAA, in 2001 with a budget surplus of 1.5 percent of income.
Caveats: Comparing Taxes Over Time
Comparing tax legislation over time is tricky. In the 1960s, Congress only calculated how much a tax proposal would save taxpayers in the next year. In the late 1970s, five-year estimates became the norm, and more recently ten-year estimates have been required.
Obviously, no one should compare the dollar amount of a ten-year estimate to a five-year or one-year estimate. Whenever you hear or read that the Bush tax cut in 2001 was "the biggest tax cut ever," that’s the mistake—it’s like saying an 8-oz. steak costs more now than a 16-oz. steak cost 20 years ago. With two precautions, however, tax legislation can be compared. The first step is to adjust for inflation, and the second is to compare the same number of years.
All tax estimates are published in "current dollars," without any adjustment for inflation. Since a dollar is worth a lot less now than it was 20 or 40 years ago, all dollar amounts from past estimates must be converted into "constant dollars," which adjusts for inflation. In the tables below, estimates from years past are converted into constant 2003 dollars. This answers the question: what would the tax cuts of yesteryear be worth today?
Another way to make estimates comparable over time is to measure them as a percentage of the U.S. economy, or as a percentage of the Federal Budget. Since these grow over time, we can get a sense of how big tax cuts of the past were. Keep in mind, though, that because the Kennedy tax cut was "scored" for one year only, we can only compare it to the first year of the other bills. The first year of some bills is unusually large; this is the case with the 2002 tax cut. Other tax bills have relatively small first-year effects.
And finally, one additional warning: these estimates are the predictions made before the tax cuts were passed. No one ever goes back to revise them if things turn out differently. For example, the 2001 Bush tax cut has so far turned out to be smaller than the estimates predicted because recessionary times prevented many people from taking advantage of lower rates. So while the comparison is interesting, and it gives a general idea of how large a tax cut past Presidents and Congresses were willing to consider, it is an exercise fraught with technical difficulties.
The Tax Foundation - Comparing the Kennedy, Reagan and Bush Tax Cuts
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: Obama is ineffective so where do we go from here?

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Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
Something you may be interested in reading:

excerpt:
The Tax Foundation - Comparing the Kennedy, Reagan and Bush Tax Cuts
Thanks for the response.
I am aware that Kennedy did a big tax cut. And to cut to the chase here I look at his and Regan's tax cuts as juicing the economy short term and getting applause from the peanut gallery. By the time Bush cut taxes our tax base was of course way below the Kennedy level. I also don't buy the numbers there on defense spending. Maybe we have a bigger pie and so the percentage shows up less. Know what I mean? But yeah I think defense may have been hidden in other appropriations or whatever. And it clearly cut into the baby boomer social security else we wouldn't have all of a sudden begun that discussion again.
And give the devil his due whether he played with the numbers or what, Clinton did show we had social security pretty well fixed for more years than when the war started taking its toll on it.
But 911 was an emergency situation and I realize the moves we've taken (wars) were necessary.
My biggest gripe is spending needed/needs to come down before we give ourselves anymore feel good tax cuts.
The Bush tax cuts were temporary cause I doubt he could get anything permanent through.
What I ask my Republican friends and blue dog Democrats is why can't we do at least temporary spending cuts?
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: Obama is ineffective so where do we go from here?

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And give the devil his due whether he played with the numbers or what, Clinton did show we had social security pretty well fixed for more years than when the war started taking its toll on it.
But 911 was an emergency situation and I realize the moves we've taken (wars) were necessary.
I personally don't believe the wars were necessary at all. As for Clinton, he had a Republican congress pulling his strings, so this was probably a factor.

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post

My biggest gripe is spending needed/needs to come down before we give ourselves anymore feel good tax cuts.
The Bush tax cuts were temporary cause I doubt he could get anything permanent through.
What I ask my Republican friends and blue dog Democrats is why can't we do at least temporary spending cuts?
Spending needs to be permanently decreased, and legislation passed to prevent congress from increasing the percentage of GDP which can be spent. If we don't get a firm grip on spending allowances now, the future will be even more dim than it looks today.
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Obama is ineffective so where do we go from here?

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Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
I personally don't believe the wars were necessary at all. As for Clinton, he had a Republican congress pulling his strings, so this was probably a factor.



Spending needs to be permanently decreased, and legislation passed to prevent congress from increasing the percentage of GDP which can be spent. If we don't get a firm grip on spending allowances now, the future will be even more dim than it looks today.
People seem to forget that congress controls the spending.
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:12 PM
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Default Re: Obama is ineffective so where do we go from here?

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Condoleezza Rice has been over achiever-successful at every job she's had. Yea it would be nice to have her as President.
Smart, intelligent, successful? Sure. But the problem I have with Condi is that she bowed to an inferior mind. She carried the water for Bush and I know she knew better. It's the same problem I have with Powell, who I admire greatly. He too bowed to the pressure of inferior minds when he went before the UN and made the case for war with Iraq. At the same time I feel for him. I know he had to be dying inside as he performed as he was asked to do by the POTUS. They stood for what was expected from them instead of their own beliefs. And yes, this is my opinion and not provable fact.
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