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Open Discussion Discuss Shocker: Major corporations may dump health insurance, pay penalties instead at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Coyote Hot Air? Hot Air was launched on April 24, 2006, with Michelle Malkin as founder/CEO. Since ...

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Old 10-26-2010, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: Shocker: Major corporations may dump health insurance, pay penalties instead

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
Hot Air?

Hot Air was launched on April 24, 2006, with Michelle Malkin as founder/CEO. Since then, the site has become one of the largest right-of-center blogs on the Internet.

It's probably as reliable a rumor mill as WND...or, for those staunchly right-of-center folks, Daily Kos....

But sure got everyone's knickers in a knot
Perhaps a WSJ article will suit you better. Perhaps even more so, if it includes the math that one state governor has explained, Philip Bredesen: ObamaCare's Incentive to Drop Insurance - WSJ.com

Snip,

Quote:
Let's do a thought experiment. We'll use my own state of Tennessee and our state employees for our data. The year is 2014 and the Affordable Care Act is now in full operation. We're a large employer, with about 40,000 direct employees who participate in our health plan. In our thought experiment, let's exit the health-benefits business this year and help our employees use an exchange to purchase their own.

First of all, we need to keep our employees financially whole. With our current plan, they contribute 20% of the total cost of their health insurance, and that contribution in 2014 will total about $86 million. If all these employees now buy their insurance through an exchange, that personal share will increase by another $38 million. We'll adjust our employees' compensation in some rough fashion so that no employee is paying more for insurance as a result of our action. Taking into account the new taxes that would be incurred, the change in employee eligibility for subsidies, and allowing for inefficiency in how we distribute this new compensation, we'll triple our budget for this to $114 million.

Now that we've protected our employees, we'll also have to pay a federal penalty of $2,000 for each employee because we no longer offer health insurance; that's another $86 million. The total state cost is now about $200 million.

But if we keep our existing insurance plan, our cost will be $346 million. We can reduce our annual costs by over $146 million using the legislated mechanics of health reform to transfer them to the federal government.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: Shocker: Major corporations may dump health insurance, pay penalties instead

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Originally Posted by Pat View Post
Perhaps a WSJ article will suit you better. Perhaps even more so, if it includes the math that one state governor has explained, Philip Bredesen: ObamaCare's Incentive to Drop Insurance - WSJ.com

Snip,
actually they're owned by NewsCorp --- the same folks who own FoxNews

so the left will discount them as well
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Old 10-26-2010, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: Shocker: Major corporations may dump health insurance, pay penalties instead

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Originally Posted by Pat View Post
Perhaps a WSJ article will suit you better. Perhaps even more so, if it includes the math that one state governor has explained, Philip Bredesen: ObamaCare's Incentive to Drop Insurance - WSJ.com

Snip,
While the WSJ is generally liberal on their news section, their opinion section is strongly tilted to the right (interesting dichotomy).

Any article that refers to healthcare reform as "Obamacare" is right up there with articles talking about "teabaggers"....wouldn't you think?

I'm not totally discounting it, but I sense more than a bit of partisan fear-mongering.

I'll wait and see how it plays out before making up my mind on thus-far unwarrented panic.
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Old 10-26-2010, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: Shocker: Major corporations may dump health insurance, pay penalties instead

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
While the WSJ is generally liberal on their news section, their opinion section is strongly tilted to the right (interesting dichotomy).

Any article that refers to healthcare reform as "Obamacare" is right up there with articles talking about "teabaggers"....wouldn't you think?
Hardly, please explaine to me how the the term "Obamacare' has some sort of negative sexual reference to it as the term "teabagger" does. You are grasping at straws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
I'm not totally discounting it, but I sense more than a bit of partisan fear-mongering.
Partisan fear-mongering? More grasping at straws on your part. The author of the article is none other than Phil Bredesen, the DEMOCRAT Governor of Tennessee.

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
I'll wait and see how it plays out before making up my mind on thus-far unwarrented panic.
He explained the math of the situation, if you consider math to be a panic, so be it.
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: Shocker: Major corporations may dump health insurance, pay penalties instead

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Originally Posted by Pat View Post
Hardly, please explaine to me how the the term "Obamacare' has some sort of negative sexual reference to it as the term "teabagger" does. You are grasping at straws.
It does not have to be sexual to be negative - Obamacare is used soley in a perjorative way to label healthcare reform even though it's a composite of many people's ideas over several Administrations.

Can you find me any articles where Obamacare is a positive label?

Quote:
Partisan fear-mongering? More grasping at straws on your part. The author of the article is none other than Phil Bredesen, the DEMOCRAT Governor of Tennessee.
I wasn't referring to Bredesen, but the overall tone of the OP.
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:22 PM
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Default Re: Shocker: Major corporations may dump health insurance, pay penalties instead

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It does not have to be sexual to be negative - Obamacare is used soley in a perjorative way to label healthcare reform even though it's a composite of many people's ideas over several Administrations.
First of all, there was not "health care reform", it was insurance reform. The fact that you still call it "health care reform" is indicative that you have fallen for the media's chosen words for the farce that was foisted upon you and I.
Edited to add
I didn't use the term "Obamacare", so your supposed comparative analysis is naught but a diversion to my actual points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
Can you find me any articles where Obamacare is a positive label?
If you consider "Obama" to be a negative term, that's your business.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
I wasn't referring to Bredesen, but the overall tone of the OP.
You quoted me, typically on internet message boards, that means you are replying to the person you quoted.

P.S.
You partially quoted me in this last response of yours. Using partial quotes is typically a sign of the weakness of ones argument.

Last edited by alan; 10-26-2010 at 09:27 PM..
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Shocker: Major corporations may dump health insurance, pay penalties instead

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
It does not have to be sexual to be negative - Obamacare is used soley in a perjorative way to label healthcare reform even though it's a composite of many people's ideas over several Administrations.

Can you find me any articles where Obamacare is a positive label?



I wasn't referring to Bredesen, but the overall tone of the OP.
The only difference between Obamacare and Hillarycare is Obamacare is now law.

And why is it you need to remove this presidents name from the bill anyway? Shouldn't you be proud of calling it Obamacare? Aren't all of the great things this does going to help you in public perception? I guarantee if Obamacare had the support of the people you wouldn't have a problem with calling it that.
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Shocker: Major corporations may dump health insurance, pay penalties instead

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The only difference between Obamacare and Hillarycare is Obamacare is now law.

And why is it you need to remove this presidents name from the bill anyway? Shouldn't you be proud of calling it Obamacare? Aren't all of the great things this does going to help you in public perception? I guarantee if Obamacare had the support of the people you wouldn't have a problem with calling it that.
No. I would still have a problem with calling it that.

Social security did not have any presidents name on it.

Nor did welfare reform.

Healthcare reform was labeled "Obamacare" by the right as a derogatory term. Plain and simple. Own up to it.
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: Shocker: Major corporations may dump health insurance, pay penalties instead

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
No. I would still have a problem with calling it that.

Social security did not have any presidents name on it.

Nor did welfare reform.

Healthcare reform was labeled "Obamacare" by the right as a derogatory term. Plain and simple. Own up to it.
Obamacare is one sixth of our economy. If you're for that stand up and own up. It's like you want me to call a **** sandwich roast beef because you really like the **** sandwich but don't want it identified as such.
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: Shocker: Major corporations may dump health insurance, pay penalties instead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat View Post
First of all, there was not "health care reform", it was insurance reform. The fact that you still call it "health care reform" is indicative that you have fallen for the media's chosen words for the farce that was foisted upon you and I.
Edited to add
I didn't use the term "Obamacare", so your supposed comparative analysis is naught but a diversion to my actual points.

If you consider "Obama" to be a negative term, that's your business.
That is a strawman. It is not the term "Obama". It is the term Obamacare that has been created by the right. What's wrong with "tea"? What's wrong with "bag"?

Quote:
You quoted me, typically on internet message boards, that means you are replying to the person you quoted.

P.S.
You partially quoted me in this last response of yours. Using partial quotes is typically a sign of the weakness of ones argument.
I often reply both specifically to a post and generally, about the topic in one reply.
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