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Open Discussion Discuss (PWHoR 07-1) Fair Tax at the General Forum; Originally Posted by indago A vote for the lesser of two evils is a vote for evil And being a ...

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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2008, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: (PWHoR 07-1) Fair Tax

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Originally Posted by indago View Post
A vote for the lesser of two evils is a vote for evil
And being a serial killer instead of a wife beater is more evil.
All or nothing is an illogical in this circumstance(and many others). Would they deserve the same punishment?

I agree it would be nice if we didn't have to be taxed at all but somehow the logic you are using here seems devoid of intellectuality. Many try the same logic in regards to political candidates but I put forth the notion that if YOU allow(by not voting) the greater of two evils to win then YOU ARE PROMOTING evil. For evil to win good has to do only NOTHING.
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Old 01-21-2008, 12:10 AM
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Default Re: (PWHoR 07-1) Fair Tax

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Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
My Vote: No.

My Reason: Insufficient evidence to support implementation, including, but not limited to corporate tax concerns.

Course of Action: Continue with the current system until means can be found to gradually change the system to a more fair system. Debate the issues of the fair tax and incorporate their intent if not their letter into the future legal framework.
Your reason/Your Course:
An overwhelming tide of evidence that the CURRENT system harms the economy, is rife with corruption and favoritism, punishes those who work harder, punishes those that create jobs and business, discourages saving, discourages capital investment, drives business out of the country, costs billions to administrate, costs billions to businesses/individuals to effect "compliance", and is generally just plain unfair. [This is not even a complete list please take a moment(well several really)to read Title 3, Section 2 for the "official list" broken down by category of tax being specified.] GovTrack: H.R. 25 [109th]: Text of Legislation
Implicit in the "change" is the absolute removal of the "current system". We CANNOT allow the new system to begin until the old one is ended totally and completely with no opportunity for its corruption to continue getting worse. There is NO WAY to gradually change over( the overlap period and method is still being worked out). You obviously have not even begun to read let alone understand "the proposal".
I admit that I have not attempted to "plug numbers into the formula" to check them(as only high degreed accountants would be able to) however I have been checking out the basic precepts, ideas, and projected results with ALL that have and are seriously considering this proposal. I myself an entirely skeptical because I can't find the "downside" to this system and I have definitely been trying. Because I can't check the numbers I am "riding hard" on the parts that I can check and will be checking in on the works of those "number crunchers". Those that just wish to scoff at it without knowing what it is are just plain not worth the time it takes to remind them that "they don't know what they are talking about".
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Old 01-21-2008, 12:40 AM
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Default Re: (PWHoR 07-1) Fair Tax

Special reminder:
Disprove this if you can:

YOU CAN NOT TAX A CORPORATION!


EVERY penny a corporation spends whether it is for raw material, labor(who also gets taxed) and employer taxes, losses, executive salaries or options, licenses,(this list is no where near complete either)training, insurance, leases, permits, energy, machinery, lobbying, bribery, office supplies, parties, cleaning, waste disposal, transportation, expense accounts, maintenance, OR TAXES is called an "expense". All expenses become part of the cost of the end product(this is actually the main point, just this one sentence). Since the customer PAYS this final cost it is THEY that are paying the tax. The total final cost is subtracted from the total final price to determine what the "profit" is. That profit is then shared by the shareholders where IT is taxed also.
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: (PWHoR 07-1) Fair Tax

But I'm talking honest job costing. I think that we should charge the corporations and then they can put the cost of the tax into the product. The corporations are the largest user of our infrastructure. For us to maintain our infrastructure we must demand that corporations have clear job costing that includes their use of the public infrastructure.

We have to pass on those costs to the public, but we might as well have the costs come from where the costs are created. If the company uses the roads they need to pay for their use. The only way to do that is to put it in the cost of the product, and then people really would be paying for what they are getting.

That is the most 'fair' tax.
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Old 01-21-2008, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: (PWHoR 07-1) Fair Tax

According to historical records, and Supreme Court records, the federal "income tax" is a tax upon the act of doing business, with the "income" being the measurement for the amount of the tax. With the federal sales tax — the FairTax — the measurement would change from "income" to "sales".
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Old 01-21-2008, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: (PWHoR 07-1) Fair Tax

Stolen from Neal Boortz: in todays blog
one of the authors of the "Fair Tax"



Both the Democrats and the Republicans seem to think that about $145 billion would be a good shot in the air for our economy. A one-time infusion of $145 billion. Great. I'm impressed.



Now ...let's see. Just what does it cost our economy every year just to comply with our hideously complicated tax code? I think I remember. Perhaps I remember because this very topic is a big part of "FairTax, The Truth: Answering the Critics" coming out in just two weeks. The answer, depending on how you want to calculate it, is anywhere from $300 to $500 billion a year. Now if we were to adopt the FairTax that would mean that our economy could get an infusion of over $300 a year that could be invested in business expansion and jobs creation rather than on the record keeping, paperwork and other tax compliance costs. The political class seems to think that a one-time infusion of $145 billion would help. Well, what could $300 to $500 billion a year do?



Really, though, those tax compliance costs are chicken feed compared to the American wealth that is working in offshore accounts. How much are we talking about here? Let's try $13 trillion dollars. And just how much is that? That's about ninety $145 billion stimulus packages. Pass the FairTax and there is no longer any reason for American investors and businesses to send or keep their dollars overseas to work under more favorable tax conditions. That money starts coming home where it can work right here in the USA with no tax consequences. Just how many new jobs do you think would be created over the years following adoption of the FairTax with trillions of dollars being repatriated to work in our economy at home?



That's just a brief overview of some of the ways our economy could benefit from the FairTax. There are some rather startling details in the book.



boortz.com: Nealz Nuze Today's Nuze


2 weeks wait and $10 for the paperback
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: (PWHoR 07-1) Fair Tax

Looks like the Fair Tax passed the Political Wrinkles House of Representatives on a vote of 2 to 1.

I would like to thank all of those who have participated. More interesting topics to come.
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: (PWHoR 07-1) Fair Tax

After reading whats been posted here I still don't know.

I haven't done any real research to be honest. Just a few articles & some TV & radio interviews with guests for & against the fair tax. Of course those spots aren't all that in depth.

I tend to not want to jump into something unknown. Even with all that's been said here I don't think there can be true assessment of how our economy would respond to such a drastic change in our tax system.

I would probably have to vote nay --- & convince folks to look more seriously at a flat tax.
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Old 02-02-2008, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: (PWHoR 07-1) Fair Tax

I think we should fix what we have back to what it should be...
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