What has been repeatedly left out in this discussion is that the proposed Mosque isn't even AT Ground Zero. The proposed location is three blocks away.

And if we as a people stop this mosque from being built, we are violating one of the core principals of this nation - the gov't is supposed to keep it's nose out of the Church's business and that includes ALL faiths. Do I like the fact that is happening?? HELL NO!! But it's one of those "I may disagree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." situations.

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Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

Leftists and very small children don't seem to be able to understand that the Government isn't there to "fix" the economy, anymore than a tick is there to fix your dog.~Oftencold

McVeigh was a Christian in name ONLY and his actions were not done in the Name of Christ, they were done out of his own screwed mind. The attacks (all 3 of them) on the WTC were in the name of Allah and were done by groups of people who were not nuts, just fanatical. But those are just facts, so don't bother with them if they mess with your own personal version of reality...

__________________
Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

Leftists and very small children don't seem to be able to understand that the Government isn't there to "fix" the economy, anymore than a tick is there to fix your dog.~Oftencold

You're right, it isn't coincidence, it is a matter of the number of muslims living in an area that used to be called "Little Syria" needing to expand their mosque's available space by building a new location in their area. Of course they knew the ramifications, the ramifications being that their mosque members (or whatever the hell term they use for a group of muslims) could worship, swim, work out and attend theatrical performances without having to travel beyond their own neighborhood. I'm sure they knew that some 9/11 victim's families and fringe fanatics would disapprove and develop into a verbal minority, objecting to their constitutional right to practice freedom of religion, slowing their plans and creating a rift in social relations between christians and muslims in that area. Maybe they were even so apprehensive that they put off their plans, until now, in part for that very reason.

Actually, the time-frame most definately DOES matter. It wasn't until recently that the existing congregation (or whatever the heck muslims call it, i really don't care) outgrew its existing facility - also located nearby in lower manhattan. How can you say the time-frame doesn't matter? How long would they have to wait, worshiping in a small and/or overcrowded mosque until it would be acceptable for YOU that they be allowed to build a new location? Would it still be sheer insensitivity on their part if they had waited another 20 years? 50? I suppose the WTC site is now hallowed ground near which no mosque (or the islamic equivalent of an old-school YMCA) shall be built for all eternity lest even one family member of a 9/11 victim be offended?

And yes, proximity matters... proximity to the cultural ties between muslims and lower manhattan that date back 110+ years, proximity to the muslims living/working/etc. in the area (the ones that will be swimming, working out, and worshipping there), and proximity to the larger mosque in the area (the mosque which has existed there for quite some time and whose imam is the one spearheading the effort to build the cultural center).

"not nuts, just fanatical" You mean there is a difference?

Actually, that has not been left out of this discussion, it has merely been ignored by those on the more bigoted and propagandized side of the argument, as have a multitude of other facts, such as:

Muslims don't build symbolic mosques to indicate victory or conquest.

Christians as well as muslims have historically converted the houses of worship of those they conquer into their own houses of worship.

The "mosque" in question is a cultural center that includes a place of worship and is more like an islamic version of a YMCA (before the C in YMCA was marginalized) than it is an actual mosque.

The fact that some 9/11 victim's families (including non-muslims) support the building of the cultural center.

The fact that NYC has approved its building, so no amount of protest can prevent it.

The area surrounding the WTC site has historical and cultural ties to islam and middle eastern immigration, having once been called "Little Syria" and having inspired the islamic influence of the architecture of the original towers.

The site being renovated is NOT a christian church, but a dilapidated clothing store.

9/11 was almost 9 years ago.

The mosque/imam sponsoring the building of the cultural center is located nearby, also in lower Manhattan, and has been there for some time.

Etc.

Terribly naive. The Pan-Islamic agenda is counting on you remaining so.

There are limits to freedom, btw.

By the way, jlarsen, in reference to your snotty remark about email chain letter info, I learned about the practice of building a mosque on conquered ground in World History class in High School in 1976. Two blocks from ground zero is as close as they can get.

Yes - and they do too.
Their history and current actions support that. Did it occur to you how incredibly insensitive it is for them to want to choose that location, knowing we object? Their Imam has a radical history and reputation himself. Tolerance on their part? NO, he's mocking us.

Your arrogance in not impressive; you just look ignorant. You throw that accusation of "hate" around pretty freely against your fellow Americans. We are the injured party here. Just whose side are you on? And who are you? Your profile page gives absolutely no information about you. You call us "Christian fundie bigots". Are you Muslim? What do you have to hide?

Good luck with that trolling thing you do.

I love how so called "christians" are quick to disavow any affiliation with McVeigh, always saying "he isn't a christian", yet those same people, in their "christian mercy", do not allow Muslims even the opportunity to disavow terrorists.

Clearly there should be. Was it the soviet union that banned all organized religion? I think they had it right.