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Open Discussion Discuss Why one Muslim girl became a born-again virgin for her wedding night at the General Forum; Originally Posted by fxashun I'm not defending the actual rules, just the culture that lives under them. I'm glad I ...

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Old 12-18-2007, 02:49 PM
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Default Re: Why one Muslim girl became a born-again virgin for her wedding night

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Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
I'm not defending the actual rules, just the culture that lives under them. I'm glad I don't live there. But they are their rules.

That being said, we DO circumcise our children here in the U.S. for what seems like mostly religious or maybe even cosmetic reasons.
actually the percentage of boys that are circumsised at birth has dropped below 50% if I remember correctly. Things are changing.

That said..

She, clearly, does not have the same rules, but was threatened with death if she did not comply. This threat has existed in many cultures INCLUDING the Abrahamic ones.

Hymenoplasty was the solution that she chose. Another may choose to escape. Social and cultural changes often start at these points.
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Old 12-18-2007, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: Why one Muslim girl became a born-again virgin for her wedding night

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Sounds more to me, like you have an axe to grind, while ignoring your own culture's treatment and double standard about virginity/purety and how socially women are treated who don't follow that standard...
Ummmmmmm...NO...

First, go watch Sex & the City or Amazing Grace, then read up on Paris Hilton, then report the annual porn sales, and then come back and say that sentence with a straight face...

Second, there is no social scarlet letter in our culture that requires DEATH...and by their own family...

To equate anything in our culture is moral equivalence in the highest order...:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Sure, perhaps in our culture we don't physically kill women that are engaged in pre-maritial sex...But we still stigmatize and hold a different set of standards in how we treat women who participate in it without the sanctions of marriage...


Go read some hip-hop lyrics...You know...The #1 hits...not just the underground stuff...

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
The only difference is, rather then kill the body we kill their rights, spririt, and emotions with how we treat non-virgin women to non-virgin males. And because of that double standard/treatment, we drive those females to drastic actions that result in either their deaths, their unborns deaths, or both...
No...They get pushed to the front page of the tabloids and given reality shows...

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
So even though it's a horse of a different color, it's still a horse no matter how you try to say otherwise...
America is a pygmy horse when it comes to this...Equating it to the Clydesdale of Islamic culture is beneath contempt...

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Secondly...You seem to be confusing where one lives with where one is doing social work in your tirade here...Sure, they may move here and they do have to live with our laws in regards to 'honor killing'...Which is illegal by our standards.
NOW it is...But look at what's happening in Western civilizations...

Britain is considering(!!!!!!!) and in discussions with Muslim leaders about creating Sharia courts for certain Muslim neighborhoods...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Obviously, there needs to be a balance made in regards to what can be done here in our own country...But even then, that doesn't stop them from not feeling the way they do, even if legally they aren't allowed to do so...Just means they know that if they follow their customs in regards to 'honor killing' that here they will pay for doing so legally...
Once again...That's NOW...But the Sharia Creep is coming...You and I won't see it, but I pray for our grandchildren...

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
You're thinking of total cultural snuffing of people entering this country...And that's wishful thinking on anyone's part...
Really?...I don't remember saying that...Oh yeah...

I didn't...

But Teddy Roosevelt did say this...

Quote:
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American ... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag ... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Sounds like you don't agree...

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Just like if you were to move to their countries, even though you'd have to conform to their laws, you still wouldn't completely let go of your own cultural influences and beliefs nor would you be comfortable with your offspring adopting that country's cultural influences and would do your best to keep your culture their main influence...
I didn't say a DAMN thing about letting go of anything!!...The issue is PUSHING your culture on the natives...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer
And that's the situation here, in the topic you posted. Location doesn't stop one's beliefs from not being expressed or followed, even if the location they are in disagree with it.
Having a difference of opinion is one thing...But ACTING OUT on that difference as if the native customs don't even exist is quite another...

You don't believe in "When in Rome, do what the romans do." and neither does Islam...

For them (and by your words), it's now become, "When in Rome, screw what the Romans do...Do your own thing and tell the Romans they can go scratch."...:
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Old 12-18-2007, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: Why one Muslim girl became a born-again virgin for her wedding night

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Ummmmmmm...NO...

First, go watch Sex & the City or Amazing Grace, then read up on Paris Hilton, then report the annual porn sales, and then come back and say that sentence with a straight face...
??? Just your mentioning those, shows the double standard...Unless you're trying to say that suddenly our society doesn't make fun of or look down on those examples?

You seem to be confusing the fact that although it's not illegal for those shows, actress, or even the porn industry to exsist/live in our society with the actual fact that general society itself still says that 'porn', Paris H., or even S&S/AG are 'immoral and brings our society down'...

So yes, I can still say what I said with a straight face cause I'm talking about how something is stigmatized in society...Not whether or not it's allowed legally to exsist.

Women are allowed to be primiscous in our society...BUT it's in HOW SOCIETY TREATS THEM, I'm discussing.

Porn is perfectly acceptable in our society, with limitation in regards to age viewership...But that doesn't mean that porn stars are looked at by the general public as 'moral' or 'trustworthy'....

Paris Hilton is a celebrity, sure. BUT, although she's popular entertainment, society in general considers her immoral and a 'sl*t'.

Sex and the City/Amazing Grace are considered entertainment...Yet there's still a good part of society that sees it as unfit and immoral entertainment that entices viewers to act immorally...And they treat the show as 'immoral and sinful' to watch...

And the same applies in regards to what I was talking about...Women are allowed to make their own sexual choices. They are allowed to be as permiscious as a man, in regards to who they sleep with and whether or not it's done without the confinces/santicty of marriage...But if they do so, then they have 'consequences' they have to suffer by society. They have to live with the labels attached to them by society, for not being chaste/virginal.

We still treat women differently if they are 'loose with their sexuality' then we do men. Our society condones the emotional and mental mistreatment/classification of women who don't act in a 'chaste/virginal manner outside of marriage. And this type of treatment, as I said prior, drives some women to great extremes to try and fit into what's 'socially acceptable'...Some by abortion, or outright killing of their new born to cover up their shame...And in some cases, even more extreme measures such as suicide, because they feel socially/emotionally stigmatized by their family/friends/communities.

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Second, there is no social scarlet letter in our culture that requires DEATH...and by their own family...
Please point to where I said that in our society, we require death of a non-virgin female? I'm sure I made myself clear on the fact that we don't kill women who have premaritial sex...

Yep, just re-read what I wrote...And TWICE I stated that 'we may not kill women who are primiscous but....' Why don't you go back and re-read what I wrote, so you won't try to interject something I made perfectly clear I wasn't saying in the first place?

But there IS a social 'scarlet letter' attached to women that aren't sexually chaste. Where our society puts a heavy emotional burden on women who allow themselves the freedom to express themselves sexually, just like men are allowed to do.

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
I didn't say a DAMN thing about letting go of anything!!...The issue is PUSHING your culture on the natives...
And how are they 'pushing their culture on the natives'? Who outside of thier own culture, is being forced to comply to their traditions or commit 'honor killings' in the name of thier belief or culture?

You? Me? Thier Christian nieghbor across the street?

What your article is discussing is what a culture is doing within their own culture...Not outside of it or to anyone that isn't of their practices...That girl is from THAT CULTURE, irregardless of the fact she's been born in the US. IF she wasn't of that culture, or held to it's beliefs, then she wouldn't have been concerned about what her people would do to her for breaking her culture's traditions...

She's not Christian...She's Islamic herself. And she's MULTI-cultural in heritage, not 'Western' or 'MiddleEastern'. She's actually both. Hence again, her concern and reasons for doing what she's done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Having a difference of opinion is one thing...But ACTING OUT on that difference as if the native customs don't even exist is quite another...
Yet, here you are upset about HER NATIVE customs not fitting into YOUR NATIVE customs.

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
You don't believe in "When in Rome, do what the romans do." and neither does Islam...For them (and by your words), it's now become, "When in Rome, screw what the Romans do...Do your own thing and tell the Romans they can go scratch."...:
Here's the thing I LOVE about that quote...Rome was multi-religious. In otherwords, because of their world conquests of other nations, Rome itself adopted multiple faiths and allowed for the practice of those multiple faiths...All in the name of 'All beliefs are Roman beliefs'...

They didn't just have temples raised to honor the Roman/Greek gods/goddesses...But also had temples and statues of non-Roman gods/goddesses to honor the many nations and beliefs they ruled over residing right next to thier gods/goddesses....

So your useage of 'When in Rome, do as the Roman's do' is an inaccurate useage dear....Because IF you had been in Rome, then you would have been free to worship and practice as you wanted as long as your beliefs didn't try to overshadow the Roman gods/goddesses...In otherwords, as long as yours didn't say 'my way is the only way'...

Yes, I know they prosecuted the Christians...But it wasn't the religion itself they had problems with...It was the dessention the followers caused of insisting 'only one god could be worshipped' they had issue with in the beginning. Because they were a city of MANY beliefs, and all were held to be true and Christianity caused conflict in that.

Last edited by AlicornsPrayer; 12-18-2007 at 03:48 PM..
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Why one Muslim girl became a born-again virgin for her wedding night

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
??? Just your mentioning those, shows the double standard...Unless you're trying to say that suddenly our society doesn't make fun of or look down on those examples?
No they don't...

They are put up on pedestals...Remember the Murphy Brown scenario with Dan Quayle?...Quayle was the one who was vilified...

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
You seem to be confusing the fact that although it's not illegal for those shows, actress, or even the porn industry to exsist/live in our society with the actual fact that general society itself still says that 'porn', Paris H., or even S&S/AG are 'immoral and brings our society down'...
Correct...

But unlike the scenario in the original post, the culture is not TAKING MATTERS INTO THEIR OWN HANDS and closing these places down...They speak out against these things or try to sway legislation, but they DON'T say "Screw it...I'm just gonna rip up that whore's contract." or "I'm gonna cut TBS's cables so they can't show programs that I find demeaning."...

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
So yes, I can still say what I said with a straight face cause I'm talking about how something is stigmatized in society...Not whether or not it's allowed legally to exsist.
But you are EQUATING THEM!!!...

That's moral equivalance, and is the most detrimental logic that this country faces today...

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Originally Posted by moral equivalance
Hitler killed people; cops killed people; therefore cops are as bad as Hitler
Bull**** logic...:

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Women are allowed to be primiscous in our society...BUT it's in HOW SOCIETY TREATS THEM, I'm discussing.
Gives them raises and puts them in rap videos...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Porn is perfectly acceptable in our society, with limitation in regards to age viewership...But that doesn't mean that porn stars are looked at by the general public as 'moral' or 'trustworthy'....
Once again..."Looking at" and "taking active and violent action against them" are two different things...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Paris Hilton is a celebrity, sure. BUT, although she's popular entertainment, society in general considers her immoral and a 'sl*t'.
And then when asked "Would you bang her?", the answer of "Yes" becomes the battlecry...

In case you didn't know, she was #11 on last year's Maxim Top 100 list...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Sex and the City/Amazing Grace are considered entertainment...Yet there's still a good part of society that sees it as unfit and immoral entertainment that entices viewers to act immorally...And they treat the show as 'immoral and sinful' to watch...
And how does that "good part of society" subvert the law or retain stagnant traditions in order to stop these programs?...

They don't...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Please point to where I said that in our society, we require death of a non-virgin female? I'm sure I made myself clear on the fact that we don't kill women who have premaritial sex...

Yep, just re-read what I wrote...And TWICE I stated that 'we may not kill women who are primiscous but....' Why don't you go back and re-read what I wrote, so you won't try to interject something I made perfectly clear I wasn't saying in the first place?
As I stated earlier you're EQUATING America's treatment of non-virgins (no violence...just thoughts) with the treatment of non-virgins practicing fundamental Islam (DEATH)...

To do that is shameful to humanity...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
But there IS a social 'scarlet letter' attached to women that aren't sexually chaste. Where our society puts a heavy emotional burden on women who allow themselves the freedom to express themselves sexually, just like men are allowed to do.
Oh please...

This these shirts don't sell?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
And how are they 'pushing their culture on the natives'? Who outside of thier own culture, is being forced to comply to their traditions or commit 'honor killings' in the name of thier belief or culture?

You? Me? Thier Christian nieghbor across the street?
Forced?...Not right now...But Sharia Creep will eventually make it acceptable...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
What your article is discussing is what a culture is doing within their own culture...Not outside of it or to anyone that isn't of their practices...That girl is from THAT CULTURE, irregardless of the fact she's been born in the US. IF she wasn't of that culture, or held to it's beliefs, then she wouldn't have been concerned about what her people would do to her for breaking her culture's traditions...
Yeah...The hell with humanity...If a culture kills their own people, who are we to disturb them?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
She's not Christian...She's Islamic herself. And she's MULTI-cultural in heritage, not 'Western' or 'MiddleEastern'. She's actually both. Hence again, her concern and reasons for doing what she's done.
her "concerns are stagnant and incosistant with the modern world...I advise her and her religion to catch up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Yet, here you are upset about HER NATIVE customs not fitting into YOUR NATIVE customs.
Oh that big NATIVE CUSTOM I have about not killing virgins is a real thorn in the thumb...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer
Here's the thing I LOVE about that quote...Rome was multi-religious. In otherwords, because of their world conquests of other nations, Rome itself adopted multiple faiths and allowed for the practice of those multiple faiths...All in the name of 'All beliefs are Roman beliefs'...

They didn't just have temples raised to honor the Roman/Greek gods/goddesses...But also had temples and statues of non-Roman gods/goddesses to honor the many nations and beliefs they ruled over residing right next to thier gods/goddesses....

So your useage of 'When in Rome, do as the Roman's do' is an inaccurate useage dear....Because IF you had been in Rome, then you would have been free to worship and practice as you wanted as long as your beliefs didn't try to overshadow the Roman gods/goddesses...In otherwords, as long as yours didn't say 'my way is the only way'...

Yes, I know they prosecuted the Christians...But it wasn't the religion itself they had problems with...It was the dessention the followers caused of insisting 'only one god could be worshipped' they had issue with in the beginning. Because they were a city of MANY beliefs, and all were held to be true and Christianity caused conflict in that.
And you totally sidestepped the MEANING of the term and just went on a historical rant...
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:49 PM
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No they don't...

They are put up on pedestals...Remember the Murphy Brown scenario with Dan Quayle?...Quayle was the one who was vilified...

Correct...

But unlike the scenario in the original post, the culture is not TAKING MATTERS INTO THEIR OWN HANDS and closing these places down...They speak out against these things or try to sway legislation, but they DON'T say "Screw it...I'm just gonna rip up that whore's contract." or "I'm gonna cut TBS's cables so they can't show programs that I find demeaning."...

But you are EQUATING THEM!!!...
ROTFLMAOL!!! I got as far as reading this part of your post Redd, and had to stop cause I was laughing so hard about the world of denial you're living in...

Cause know what's crossing my mind right now? Abortion clinics. Of people picketing those places, that are religious and pro-life...Of their physically attacking the women going into such places, or shouting insults and slurs at those women as a means to intimidate and abuse those women in the name of their religious beliefs...And let's not forget either, the actual bombings/shootings done by religious fanatics in those places either...

So yes...I'm equating them, cause they're cut from the same cloth and applying a strict and ridged control over women they feel are 'stepping outside of the norm of social acceptance'....

I could also go as far as mentioning picketing lines at cinamas and courthouses all over the nation, of religious zealots screaming as loud as possible of how 'sins and lack of morality' is being shown on the screen...And pull up stories about the fights breaking out at such showings?

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
That's moral equivalance, and is the most detrimental logic that this country faces today...
And with that little sentence, you proved my point...Cause there's people that say that, then take it one step further with little difficulty...And those on the side that those individuals are against? They suffer for it...Whether it's emotional, mental, or physical loss/death...It happens and is done by individuals with mindsets similar to what you just said in that simple statement...


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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Bull**** logic...:
I agree...Your logic is full of bull hockey Redd....

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Once again..."Looking at" and "taking active and violent action against them" are two different things...
Yet, despite your protests to the contrary...There are those that do take active and violent action against them...And the people who find themselves in situations that society deems 'unmoral/wrong', also have a tendency to act violently towards themselves to make 'restitution'...

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
And then when asked "Would you bang her?", the answer of "Yes" becomes the battlecry...

In case you didn't know, she was #11 on last year's Maxim Top 100 list...
LOL!!! Having sex with someone doesn't equate to respecting or thinking highly of them Redd...So why this straw argument from you, trying to claim otherwise?

Popularity also doesn't mean they're liked...If anything, Paris Hilton is a celebrity because people like seeing her fall or make a fool of herself...That again, in no way means they like her or respect her...But that she is solely a celebrity for the entertainment value alone...

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
And how does that "good part of society" subvert the law or retain stagnant traditions in order to stop these programs?...

They don't...
First of all...it would have to be defined, exactly what is 'that good part of the society'...And what's good for one person, isn't nessesarily good for another let alone talking about cultures and societies. 'Another man's treasure is another man's junk'...And in our society, we actually are a society that treasures junk, in the eyes of alot of the world...What some of us might deem as 'good' about our society, others see as a disease...And vice-versa.

Heck, even within our own society we're divided on what's 'good/right' and 'bad/wrong'...

I could say the same thing about SSM...Cause in the Western society, we're the minority still holding out that it's 'a bad part of society' to initiate, while our other Western cousins say 'it's a good part of society' to be inclusive...

Like I said...Different color of horse, but it's still the same horse. And here's the thing...These acts that we both are describing are done by fanaticals of any religion.

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
As I stated earlier you're EQUATING America's treatment of non-virgins (no violence...just thoughts) with the treatment of non-virgins practicing fundamental Islam (DEATH)...

To do that is shameful to humanity...
Thoughts that sometimes encourage another to take their own life of that of another person...You'r focusing on WHO is doing the killing...Period. And from your responses, I'm also seeing that most of your attitude is fueled by lack of knowlege about Islam itself, as well as fed by your own personal predjudices/hatred of Islamics...

AND that you aren't basing your 'proof' off of nothing more then fanatical Islamics at that...Again with that 'judging the whole by the actions of the few' that is so viewable in the majority of your responses regarding issues or cultures you simply don't like or understand...

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Ohhhh...And look...One of those labels I was talking about that gets attached to females who are sexually 'immoral' in society's opinion...

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Forced?...Not right now...But Sharia Creep will eventually make it acceptable...

Yeah...The hell with humanity...If a culture kills their own people, who are we to disturb them?...

her "concerns are stagnant and incosistant with the modern world...I advise her and her religion to catch up...

Oh that big NATIVE CUSTOM I have about not killing virgins is a real thorn in the thumb...
Well then...I have to say then that the same applies to you where you let your religious preferences interfer in the rights of others...I advise you and your particular brand of religion catch up in regards to the treatment of women who are sexually active outside of marriage, as well as 'give up the ghost' in regards to abortion and same-sex marriage...

Afterall, our civilized fellow Western cultures don't have the same stigma or taboos attached to those issues now and allow their citizens to choose for themselves what makes them happy and live a more productive/healthy life both emotionally and physically....

Or is this a case of 'my way is the only way and anyone that disagrees is damned' type of response I can expect from you on those issues?

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
And you totally sidestepped the MEANING of the term and just went on a historical rant...
I didn't side-step anything...I pointed out that the way you wanted it to be taken was wrong, cause you have a misconception of it's meaning...In otherwords Redd...I corrected you...Not side-stepped...

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do" means 'live and let live'...Not 'conform to one belief or opinion' as you thought it ment.

You were wrong in it's interpretation...I corrected that by explaining it to you in great detail.

Last edited by AlicornsPrayer; 12-18-2007 at 05:00 PM..
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Old 12-18-2007, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Why one Muslim girl became a born-again virgin for her wedding night

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No I don't see how that works. Considering the mechanics of sex, it's easy to see why the receptive partner in intercourse would have the onus of purity. Not to mention that a man's offspring also come from "there". A woman's "purity" can also be physically "validated". Hence this lady having surgery.
I understand your point but I take exception to it. I find your logic, though solid in calculation, is lacking in humanity and consideration of equality.
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Old 12-18-2007, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Why one Muslim girl became a born-again virgin for her wedding night

I'll start keeping the rebuttals smaller...These 3000 word posts are killing me...

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
ROTFLMAOL!!! I got as far as reading this part of your post Redd, and had to stop cause I was laughing so hard about the world of denial you're living in...

Cause know what's crossing my mind right now? Abortion clinics? Of people picketing those places, that are religious and pro-life...Of their physically attacking the women going into such places, or shouting insults and slurs at those women...And let's not forget either, the actual bombings/shootings done by religious fanatics in those places either...
Here's where you run into the problem...

The people that blow up abortion clinics or do violence to others because of their beliefs are NOT honored by the majority of their own...let alone others...

That's not true of Islamic practices such as this one...They are not only NOT frowned upon, but accepted as a way of culture...

To equate the two is nothing more than moral equivalance...again...

"10000 women are killed by honor killings and the state looks away...5 people are killed by abortion bombers and the state vigorously indicts and convicts them...I think we should be fearful of both on the same level."...

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
So yes...I'm equating them, cause they're cut from the same cloth and applying a strict and ridged control over women they feel are 'stepping outside of the norm of social acceptance'....
Only from an ideological standpoint...from the ACTIONS TAKEN upon their ideology, the difference is overwhelmigly clear...

If you don't understand the difference between "I hate Jews" and "I hate Jews, so I'm going to shoot one of them tonight.", then I don't think I can continue this conversation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
I could also go as far as mentioning picketing lines at cinamas and courthouses all over the nation, of religious zealots screaming as loud as possible of how 'sins and lack of morality' is being shown on the screen
Ahhh...taking away the right to protest I see...

Smart move...you don't want those non-fascists hanging around all disagreeing and stuff...

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
...And pull up stories about the fights breaking out at such showings?
That's not a religious result...That's a result of humanity...You couldn't name a issue groups protest where a fight DIDN'T break out at some point...To hold them to a higher standard (especially not mentioning if they were defending themselves) is pretty "ivory towerish"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
And with that little sentence, you proved my point...Cause there's people that say that, then take it one step further with little difficulty...
The quantity comes into play...

If 40 people are doing something wrong in a group of 100, it's a crisis...when 2 are doing it, it's simply NOT...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
And those on the side that those individuals are against? They suffer for it...Whether it's emotional, mental, or physical loss/death...It happens and is done by individuals with mindsets similar to what you just said in that simple statement...
But you're not looking at the reactions of the society...You can't name me ONE instance of a religious person creating violent acts in America and isn't comdemned overwhelmingly...

Meanwhile, for your consumption...

Quote:
Up to 1.3 percent of Indonesian Muslims nationwide admit using violence against people or objects they consider contradictory to their beliefs, a survey found, with more than 40 percent ready to wage war for their faith.
Now consider this...

There are 200 Muslims in Indonesia...1.3% ADMITTED to using violence already (That's 2.6 MILLION people of the population calculated out)...

40% are willing to "wage war" fo their faith...That's 80 million people, AP...More than TWICE the amount of the "Religious Right" in America...and that would be if 100% of the "Religious Right" answered the same way...which you damn well know they wouldn't...

BTW - That's JUST Indonesia...Add up the number in all Islamic countries and you got over a COUPLE OF HUNDRED MILLION Muslims willing to wage war for
"faith" and "perceived insults to Islam"...

If that doesn't make you day "WTF?", then you'll be more surprised than I when they get a hold of nuclear weapons and actually use them...


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
et, despite your protests to the contrary...There are those that do take active and violent action against them...And the people who find themselves in situations that society deems 'unmoral/wrong', also have a tendency to act violently towards themselves to make 'restitution'...
And they are dealt with...Unlike Sharia courts where it's accepted...

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
LOL!!! Having sex with someone doesn't equate to respecting or thinking highly of them Redd...So why this straw argument from you, trying to claim otherwise?
Not respecting" and "Not respecting so I'll commit acts of violence against them"...D.i.f.f.e.r.e.n.c.e...

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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Popularity also doesn't mean they're liked...If anything, Paris Hilton is a celebrity because people like seeing her fall or make a fool of herself...That again, in no way means they like her or respect her...But that she is solely a celebrity for the entertainment value alone...
And people feed off of that foolishness...Society gives magazines and TV studios the money for them to pay people like Paris Hilton...To claim they aren't an accomplice to the public acceptance and really believe the opposite is foolish in and of itself...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
First of all...it would have to be defined, exactly what is 'that good part of the society'...And what's good for one person, isn't nessesarily good for another let alone talking about cultures and societies. 'Another man's treasure is another man's junk'...And in our society, we actually are a society that treasures junk, in the eyes of alot of the world...What some of us might deem as 'good' about our society, others see as a disease...And vice-versa.

Heck, even within our own society we're divided on what's 'good/right' and 'bad/wrong'...
LEVELS of right/wrong...jaywalking ain't the same as serial murder...Although you'll morally equate them as both being "criminals"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
I could say the same thing about SSM...Cause in the Western society, we're the minority still holding out that it's 'a bad part of society' to initiate, while our other Western cousins say 'it's a good part of society' to be inclusive...

Like I said...Different color of horse, but it's still the same horse.

Thoughts that sometimes encourage another to take their own life of that of another person...You'r focusing on WHO is doing the killing...Period.


Ohhhh...And look...One of those labels I was talking about that gets attached to females who are sexually 'immoral' in society's opinion...

Well then...I have to say then that the same applies to you where you let your religious preferences interfer in the rights of others...I advise you and your particular brand of religion catch up in regards to the treatment of women who are sexually active outside of marriage, as well as 'give up the ghost' in regards to abortion and same-sex marriage...
That cool...anything you disagrre with, you can just call it a "ghost" and mock another's stnce on things like destroying life or tradition values...

How "gouche"...I suggest putting on a black beret and sunglasses and head on down to the club to do poetry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Afterall, our civilized fellow Western cultures don't have the same stigma or taboos attached to those issues and allow their citizens to choose for themselves what makes them happy and live a more productive/healthy life both emotionally and physically....

Or is this a case of 'my way is the only way and anyone that disagrees is damned' type of response I can expect from you on those issues?
But the "my way" is society's choice to make, not individuals that immigrated from elsewhere...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
I didn't side-step anything...I pointed out that the way you wanted it to be taken was wrong, cause you have a misconception of it's meaning...In otherwords Redd...I corrected you...Not side-stepped...

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do" means 'live and let live'...Not 'conform to one belief or opinion' as you thought it ment.

You were wrong in it's interpretation...I corrected that by explaining it to you in great detail.
WHAT?!?!?!?!!?....Live and let live?!?!?!...

How simple can this be?...

Quote:
The phrase "When in Rome" is an abbreviation of the expression "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" which is used to advise people to adapt to the culture of places that they visit.
That's a FAR cry from "Live and Let Live"...
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Old 12-18-2007, 05:35 PM
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And I failed in that "smaller rebuttals" thing...
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Old 12-18-2007, 05:43 PM
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And I failed in that "smaller rebuttals" thing...
But it was a good one.
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Old 12-18-2007, 05:45 PM
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I understand your point but I take exception to it. I find your logic, though solid in calculation, is lacking in humanity and consideration of equality.
Be prepared for more of the same. Logic and humanity sometime oppose each other. And I usually side with logic.

How should I think differently about this issue? And "why" since this isn't our culture to change in the first place. I was just stating "why" I think that culture might place such a huge priority on chastity.
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