tree topping - Page 2

crazyflamingos · #11 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talloulou

As for the maples I'll look into the beetles though I'd be really surprised if all the men who've looked at our trees, downed branches, ect have missed that. Apparently it's fairly common for healthy maples to drop branches during windstorms. It's what they do. It's not, in itself, and indication of disease or infestation.

I was thinking the same thing about the limbs dropping. I don't have maples but we have perfectly healthy oaks all over the neighborhood that drop a limb or two almost every winter.

KnightOfSappho · #12 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talloulou

Well thanks for giving me something else to worry about.

But in all seriousness these trees have been evaluated soooo many times. I assume the certified arborists would know of this? And the crazy lady behind us has been itching to find something wrong with those trees. She has had so many people out it would blow your mind. It's not at all uncommon to hear a knock at my door 'cause she found someone else who "needs" to enter my yard and take a look. Up until now she couldn't find a arborists who would deem the trees a "hazard" but apparently her persistence paid off. If the guy found beetles I'm sure she would be over at my front door this instant pitching a fit with cops, firemen, and whoever else fell for her pitiful 'ol lady spiel. But no, apparently the guy's letter is just going to say the trees are too big for their location and THAT in itself is what makes them all an immediate hazard. Heaven help me.

The ONLY reason we've agreed to start taking them down is because I'd never forgive myself if something did happen to the 'ol bat or my kids for that matter and the trees ARE in fact too big for their location. But I'm also levelheaded and rational enough to understand that they have been too big for their location for DECADES. So no need to get all nutso at the moment and no need not to proceed slowly as my budget allows.

I don't know most old ladies take up church, knitting, whatever. She has decided to make her fear that the trees are going to kill her in her sleep her number one hobby. Or maybe she has the hots for the arborists she brings out. Who knows? But she is being an irrational bully. I could see having a certified letter sent to us if were ignoring her concerns all together. But we have removed trees already. We keep the current ones trimmed and both she and we have them evaluated more times then is actually sane in a season.

As for the maples I'll look into the beetles though I'd be really surprised if all the men who've looked at our trees, downed branches, ect have missed that. Apparently it's fairly common for healthy maples to drop branches during windstorms. It's what they do. It's not, in itself, and indication of disease or infestation.

Honestly, I wasn't trying to worry you. I wanted you to have any relevant information that I could provide to help you make decisions.

Most local tree people in areas where there are infestations DO know the signs. It has been my experience that many of the local tree people that are NOT certified by USDA to remove an infested tree will not necessarily share that information since it would mean that they lose the job. (USDA usually takes those trees down themselves.)

If she just has a mad-on for your trees, this information is not that useful to you. At the same time, you don't want to not know about this and something happen that could have been prevented.

Sorry if the info worries you.

talloulou · #13 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyflamingos

I am sure they are right, at least to some extent. When I went shopping for homeowner's insurance a couple of years ago, my premiums were higher just because I had tall trees less than 40 ft from the house. (My lot is only about 80 ft deep so the only way they could be more than 50 ft from the house would be if they were on the neighboring property.)

Another curious question. What are the qualifications of these "tree guys"?

Before you decide what to do, maybe you need to talk to whatever department of the city is in charge of deciding if you are allowed to cut trees. See what they have to say about the matter. Maybe they have someone who looks at possibly hazardous trees for signs of disease.

It seems like, if you are not allowed to cut the trees, that might mitigate some of your liability in the case that one did break.

Well from what I understand if a tree fell right now it would be an "act" of god and whoever's house it fell on their homeowners would cover it. However if I really do receive a certified letter that changes EVERYTHING. First off if the guy writing me the letter is a certified by the state arborist then his words stands unless I find someone equally certified to refute it. Which I doubt I could. Who is going to argue the opposite and claim the trees are just dandy towering over the houses? Probably nobody. So the letter will change the entire scope of everything. First, I will be able to cut them down despite the ordinance because they are now deemed "hazardous." I actually called the city and any tree deemed hazardous may be cut down after you get a permit. So I would have to have a state arborist come out, agree with her guy, and then purchase a permit to removed said hazardous trees. Secondly, immediately after receiving the certified letter I become "negligent" in the eyes of the law. What previously would have been an act of God now becomes my negligence. So if one of my trees now falls on someone's house I can be sued for negligence and it's unlikely my homeowners or theirs would pay one red cent for a tree that we were forewarned about.

Cute how that works, isn't it?

She has tried to get numerous tree guys to write such a letter and previously no one would. I guess it was only time before she found someone who would.

KnightOfSappho · #14 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 07:11 PM

Can you get tree guy to certify that the trees are healthy BEFORE you get the certified letter from HER tree guy?

talloulou · #15 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 07:17 PM

Oh I have numerous letters stating the trees are healthy. The last is from this past Aug. I'll just have to wait until I actually get the certified letter and proceed from there. If her guy's letter claims the trees are a hazard due only to size then they're a hazard regardless of how healthy they are. So basically I'm screwed either way and I just have to pray nothing happens between now and when we get the money together to get them down. I'd hate to pay to have just one removed and the rest topped as topping isn't exactly cheap either but that maybe our only choice to protect ourselves from liability. But my original concern and question was that some say topping the tree makes it more dangerous and more likely to fall. She wants every tree that can't be immediately removed taken down to apx 25-35 feet. According to some people that could actually make it MORE likely that they will fall on her house as they will be weakened. While others say it makes it less likely because being shorter they aren't as exposed to wind. I don't know who the heck to believe. Seems that expensive arborists believe in NEVER topping a tree while cheaper guys say go for it.

saltwn · #16 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 07:22 PM

So what you are doing as I see it is being bullied into doing something you hadn't planned to do (or at least not this quickly) by a threatening lawsuit.

Number one take out some extra liability insurance and do not tell anyone. Make sure the policy is for what you need without scaring the shit out of the insurance guy.
Then it sounds as if (maybe I'm wrong, I don't know) you like the trees or at least some of them being there. You've already seen they are healthy but a second opinion is good and worth it. Next find a 'tree guy' of your own. A real tree guy. Call the universities, call the city or a city nearby for suggestions on who to contact. Call an established nursery that has dealt with local trees. Ask them what to do and what kind of service does this. You may go cheaper gathering the info on your own and hiring out of the offered services section or want ads. Reads like this:

Quote:

Handy man and yard work. References. Insured. No job too large or small.

Believe it or not these kinds of people are sometimes more conscientious since they "own" their own labor than a Dandy Tree Service guy who works for close to minimum wage.
At any rate it sounds like YOU are going to have to be in charge of this. You can't just let these guys go it on their own. Even if they say they've done this sort of thing for years You have to keep an eye you are not only getting your money's worth, but that you are getting what YOU want.
If your neighbor's tree guy suggested topping, he may not know his apples from his walnuts because :

Quote:

Pruning Practices That Harm Trees

Topping and tipping are pruning practices that harm trees and should not be used. Crown reduction pruning is the preferred method to reduce the size or height of the crown of a tree, but is rarely needed and should be used infrequently.

Topping, the pruning of large upright branches between nodes, is sometimes done to reduce the height of a tree Tipping is the practice of cutting lateral branches between nodes to reduce crown width.

These practices invariably result in the development of epicormic sprouts, or in the death of the cut branch back to the next lateral branch below. These epicormic sprouts are weakly attached to the stem and eventually will be supported by a decaying branch.

Improper pruning cuts cause unnecessary injury and bark ripping Flush cuts injure stem tissues and can result in decay Stub cuts delay wound closure and can provide entry to canker fungi that kill the cambium, delaying or preventing woundwood formation
C. Bark ripping -- D. Flush cuttingHOW to Prune Trees
There are pictures

Here's the main page of the siteCare and Maintenance : TreeLink : The Urban Forestry Portal

Good Luck!

KnightOfSappho · #17 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talloulou

Oh I have numerous letters stating the trees are healthy. The last is from this past Aug. I'll just have to wait until I actually get the certified letter and proceed from there. If her guy's letter claims the trees are a hazard due only to size then they're a hazard regardless of how healthy they are. So basically I'm screwed either way and I just have to pray nothing happens between now and when we get the money together to get them down. I'd hate to pay to have just one removed and the rest topped as topping isn't exactly cheap either but that maybe our only choice to protect ourselves from liability. But my original concern and question was that some say topping the tree makes it more dangerous and more likely to fall. She wants every tree that can't be immediately removed taken down to apx 25-35 feet. According to some people that could actually make it MORE likely that they will fall on her house as they will be weakened. While others say it makes it less likely because being shorter they aren't as exposed to wind. I don't know who the heck to believe. Seems that expensive arborists believe in NEVER topping a tree while cheaper guys say go for it.

Understand that my training is as a Zoologist. I did minor in Botany, but I am not qualified to really make a statement on arboreal subjects.

That said, I will offer my general opinion from what I DO know...

Most plants,trees or otherwise, when they are topped in some form, will branch out laterally. In short, the branches that she is concerned about will more than likely become thicker and heavier. If you get rid of the apical (top) growth stem, plants branch to compensate. Cutting the height of the tree will NOT solve the problem.

team_barlo · #18 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talloulou

Well thanks for giving me something else to worry about.

But in all seriousness these trees have been evaluated soooo many times. I assume the certified arborists would know of this? And the crazy lady behind us has been itching to find something wrong with those trees. She has had so many people out it would blow your mind. It's not at all uncommon to hear a knock at my door 'cause she found someone else who "needs" to enter my yard and take a look. Up until now she couldn't find a arborists who would deem the trees a "hazard" but apparently her persistence paid off. If the guy found beetles I'm sure she would be over at my front door this instant pitching a fit with cops, firemen, and whoever else fell for her pitiful 'ol lady spiel. But no, apparently the guy's letter is just going to say the trees are too big for their location and THAT in itself is what makes them all an immediate hazard. Heaven help me.

The ONLY reason we've agreed to start taking them down is because I'd never forgive myself if something did happen to the 'ol bat or my kids for that matter and the trees ARE in fact too big for their location. But I'm also levelheaded and rational enough to understand that they have been too big for their location for DECADES. So no need to get all nutso at the moment and no need not to proceed slowly as my budget allows.

I don't know most old ladies take up church, knitting, whatever. She has decided to make her fear that the trees are going to kill her in her sleep her number one hobby. Or maybe she has the hots for the arborists she brings out. Who knows? But she is being an irrational bully. I could see having a certified letter sent to us if were ignoring her concerns all together. But we have removed trees already. We keep the current ones trimmed and both she and we have them evaluated more times then is actually sane in a season.

As for the maples I'll look into the beetles though I'd be really surprised if all the men who've looked at our trees, downed branches, ect have missed that. Apparently it's fairly common for healthy maples to drop branches during windstorms. It's what they do. It's not, in itself, and indication of disease or infestation.

Have you thought of getting some legal advice? You're doing what you can. Not everybody can re-mortgage their house at the drop of a hat nor should they be expected to. And a good point was made that your city only lets you remove so many trees. I'm wondering (perhaps cynically so) if this bully neighbor has homeowner's insurance.

Oh--and document EVERYTHING--From her tree guys to yours.

team_barlo · #19 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyflamingos

I was thinking the same thing about the limbs dropping. I don't have maples but we have perfectly healthy oaks all over the neighborhood that drop a limb or two almost every winter.

I have two maples--different varieties. One regularly drops small branches and the other just keeps growing them to a ridiculous degree.

knot_e_lady · #20 (**permalink**) 11-15-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyflamingos

I am sure they are right, at least to some extent. When I went shopping for homeowner's insurance a couple of years ago, my premiums were higher just because I had tall trees less than 40 ft from the house. (My lot is only about 80 ft deep so the only way they could be more than 50 ft from the house would be if they were on the neighboring property.)

Another curious question. What are the qualifications of these "tree guys"?

Before you decide what to do, maybe you need to talk to whatever department of the city is in charge of deciding if you are allowed to cut trees. See what they have to say about the matter. Maybe they have someone who looks at possibly hazardous trees for signs of disease.

It seems like, if you are not allowed to cut the trees, that might mitigate some of your liability in the case that one did break.

I have to agree with this, tall.

Tree guys make their money by cutting down trees. Of course they are going to go to a neighbor and tell her that the trees are dangerous and need to come down. Then she will nag you, and the tree guys make money.

I would contact your local government and find out what the regulations are and ask them if they have an inspector that can look at your trees. If they don't perhaps they have a contractor that they use.

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