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ObamaCare Discuss The Real Problem With America's Healthcare System at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Esmee All in all, I can't understand why the price would rise when the medication has been ...

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Old 12-16-2021, 12:00 PM
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Default Re: The Real Problem With America's Healthcare System

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Originally Posted by Esmee View Post
All in all, I can't understand why the price would rise when the medication has been covered by the health insurance. My microeconimcs sucks.

It has been covered, which means its price would be low for those who have the health insurance. ...
What you need to understand is that the actual price for medications does not really change. What matters is who is actually paying for it.

The problem we currently have with our Healthcare system is that the transaction between the doctor and patient is being paid for by a third party, ie. the Ins company.

Imagine going grocery shopping, knowing that someone else will be paying the bill when you check out. Would you settle for cheap food or would you head for the Prime Rib and other high end foods? After all, you're not paying for it, so what do you care what it costs?

The same is true for the owner of the grocery store. No need to keep prices low as the consumer does not care and will buy it anyway. Therefore, they will raise prices as far as they can knowing that it will not deter the customer from buying it as someone else is going to be paying the bill.

That is how the American Healthcare system works. The doctor sets a price for the patient and the patient expects the Insurance company to pay the bill. Therefore there is very little pressure to keep prices low from either side of the physical interaction between doctor and patient. When the doctor submits the bill to the insurance company, the insurance company will then look to negotiate a lower rate with the doctor.
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Old 02-08-2022, 10:45 AM
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Default Re: The Real Problem With America's Healthcare System

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
What you need to understand is that the actual price for medications does not really change. What matters is who is actually paying for it.

The problem we currently have with our Healthcare system is that the transaction between the doctor and patient is being paid for by a third party, ie. the Ins company.

Imagine going grocery shopping, knowing that someone else will be paying the bill when you check out. Would you settle for cheap food or would you head for the Prime Rib and other high end foods? After all, you're not paying for it, so what do you care what it costs?

The same is true for the owner of the grocery store. No need to keep prices low as the consumer does not care and will buy it anyway. Therefore, they will raise prices as far as they can knowing that it will not deter the customer from buying it as someone else is going to be paying the bill.

That is how the American Healthcare system works. The doctor sets a price for the patient and the patient expects the Insurance company to pay the bill. Therefore there is very little pressure to keep prices low from either side of the physical interaction between doctor and patient. When the doctor submits the bill to the insurance company, the insurance company will then look to negotiate a lower rate with the doctor.
No, doctors don't set health care prices. Medicare and Medicare along with insurance determine what will be reimbursed and for how much. Medical insurance covers usual and customary charges. Medicare and medicaid publish directories of covered services with rates.
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Old 02-08-2022, 12:13 PM
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No, doctors don't set health care prices. Medicare and Medicare along with insurance determine what will be reimbursed and for how much. Medical insurance covers usual and customary charges. Medicare and medicaid publish directories of covered services with rates.
For those on Medicare and Medicaid. However, doctors and hospitals set their prices based on what they believe they need to cover expenses and to make up for those that have no ability to pay while assuring they still make a healthy profit.

The major problem is that neither the one providing the service not the one receiving the service have any reason to care how much it costs as they are not the ones paying. Therefore there is no incentive to keep prices under control.

It's very similar to the cost of College where the Fed government stuck its nose in and took over the student loan program. After that, the price of college skyrocketed as the Universities knew that the government would provide the funds and that these kids would continue to borrow.
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Old 02-08-2022, 09:02 PM
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Single payer or Medicare for all would cost the average taxpayer $2,300 per year in additional taxes. ...
Hahahhahaha, I do not believe that for a second. How I WISH I could write a check for 2300 each year and get all my healthcare costs paid. If that were true, I would support single payer in a heartbeat. It simply isn't true though. It's going to cost the average taxpayer a WHOLE Lot more than that.

I remember Obama making a similar claim about Obamacare saving the average taxpayer 2400 or something like that. After ObamaCare my insurance premium went from 3000 a year to 12000 and my individual deductible went from 250 to 6000 and my family deductible went from 1200 to 12000. And the argument made by the freaking lying Dems is that Obamacare did save me because my insurance costs would have gone up even more if ObamaCare hadn't been implemented. Yeah if you believe that, I've got some beach front property for you in Arizona.

Oh also my wife (fiance at the time) lost the policy she was on that she liked because it didn't cover everything Obamacare demanded it cover. So much for, "if you like it you can keep it." Freaking liars.

Edit: Forgot what I was talking about, happens when I start thinking about ObamaCare. My blood just boils. Anyway, there is no way it will cost the average tax payer 2300. That might be the claim. But it will cost a whole lot more than that. Exponentially.
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Old 02-08-2022, 10:27 PM
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Default Re: The Real Problem With America's Healthcare System

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Hahahhahaha, I do not believe that for a second. How I WISH I could write a check for 2300 each year and get all my healthcare costs paid. If that were true, I would support single payer in a heartbeat. It simply isn't true though. It's going to cost the average taxpayer a WHOLE Lot more than that.

I remember Obama making a similar claim about Obamacare saving the average taxpayer 2400 or something like that. After ObamaCare my insurance premium went from 3000 a year to 12000 and my individual deductible went from 250 to 6000 and my family deductible went from 1200 to 12000. And the argument made by the freaking lying Dems is that Obamacare did save me because my insurance costs would have gone up even more if ObamaCare hadn't been implemented. Yeah if you believe that, I've got some beach front property for you in Arizona.

Oh also my wife (fiance at the time) lost the policy she was on that she liked because it didn't cover everything Obamacare demanded it cover. So much for, "if you like it you can keep it." Freaking liars.

Edit: Forgot what I was talking about, happens when I start thinking about ObamaCare. My blood just boils. Anyway, there is no way it will cost the average tax payer 2300. That might be the claim. But it will cost a whole lot more than that. Exponentially.
Your taxes used to cover indigent care at hospitals which at times could get very pricy. If they wait till they are in a crises to see a doc in the er, much pricier procedures and tests are necessary. And insurance companies were gouging the hell out of us for years before obama care. but yeah a lot of independants and even many conservatives wanted single payer. it is now known most of the early opposition were koch trained goobers.
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Old 02-09-2022, 07:43 AM
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Default Re: The Real Problem With America's Healthcare System

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Originally Posted by Zenock View Post
Hahahhahaha, I do not believe that for a second. How I WISH I could write a check for 2300 each year and get all my healthcare costs paid. If that were true, I would support single payer in a heartbeat. It simply isn't true though. It's going to cost the average taxpayer a WHOLE Lot more than that.

I remember Obama making a similar claim about Obamacare saving the average taxpayer 2400 or something like that. After ObamaCare my insurance premium went from 3000 a year to 12000 and my individual deductible went from 250 to 6000 and my family deductible went from 1200 to 12000. And the argument made by the freaking lying Dems is that Obamacare did save me because my insurance costs would have gone up even more if ObamaCare hadn't been implemented. Yeah if you believe that, I've got some beach front property for you in Arizona.

Oh also my wife (fiance at the time) lost the policy she was on that she liked because it didn't cover everything Obamacare demanded it cover. So much for, "if you like it you can keep it." Freaking liars.

Edit: Forgot what I was talking about, happens when I start thinking about ObamaCare. My blood just boils. Anyway, there is no way it will cost the average tax payer 2300. That might be the claim. But it will cost a whole lot more than that. Exponentially.
I wrote the $2,300 additional Medicaid for all cost as sarcasm. In truth the plan relies on massive reductions in provider reimbursement which would reduce health care availability but it achieves the goal of reducing costs to the government.
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Old 02-09-2022, 03:10 PM
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Default Re: The Real Problem With America's Healthcare System

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Your taxes used to cover indigent care at hospitals which at times could get very pricy. If they wait till they are in a crises to see a doc in the er, much pricier procedures and tests are necessary. And insurance companies were gouging the hell out of us for years before obama care. but yeah a lot of independants and even many conservatives wanted single payer. it is now known most of the early opposition were koch trained goobers.
Bottom line I am much much worse off now than I was before Obama care and I have absolutely zero reason to believe I won't be even worse off if single payer passes. Dems have no idea what the consequences of their radical policies will be, or they know and they lie through their teeth about it.
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Old 02-10-2022, 07:39 AM
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Default Re: The Real Problem With America's Healthcare System

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Bottom line I am much much worse off now than I was before Obama care and I have absolutely zero reason to believe I won't be even worse off if single payer passes. Dems have no idea what the consequences of their radical policies will be, or they know and they lie through their teeth about it.
The bolded part is the truth of the matter. So we need to ask, why would they lie about it? And the simple answer is, follow the money and the power. When they get everyone dependent upon government for everything, the government now has complete control of your lives. Talk about power, that is real power if you are part of said government.
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Old 02-10-2022, 09:10 AM
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Default Re: The Real Problem With America's Healthcare System

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Your taxes used to cover indigent care at hospitals which at times could get very pricy. If they wait till they are in a crises to see a doc in the er, much pricier procedures and tests are necessary. And insurance companies were gouging the hell out of us for years before obama care. but yeah a lot of independants and even many conservatives wanted single payer. it is now known most of the early opposition were koch trained goobers.
'Single payer' basically removes all market impact from prices, puts payment decisions in the hands of someone who doesn't care about the individual, and if you try and contest a decision, you are dealing with government bureaucracy.

We would be moving into what the NHS has done to people: play their way or we will punish you. Yeah, I'm sure that a lot of people who think it doesn't sound bad aren't dealing with 10 years down the road.

There are many problems with our healthCARE system. Putting more money in the hands of an organization who spends trillions of dollars we don't have on things the general populace doesn't need at that time, reeks of the belief that the taxpayers pockets are deep indeed.

'Koch trained goobers'? Support your statement with non-biased links.
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