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ObamaCare Discuss 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Electio at the General Forum; A female Chinese professor once wrote a paper to compare the Chinese Health Care with the American Health Care and ...

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Old 09-20-2019, 09:05 PM
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Default 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Electio

A female Chinese professor once wrote a paper to compare the Chinese Health Care with the American Health Care and concluded in the end of it that the Chinese Health Care would be more beneficial to the average Chinese people. At that time, someone commented following the paper that the American Health Care had been terrible known to all the world, and it would be also terrible if the Chinese Health Care should be a little more beneficial to ordinary people, but I had no idea a bit about the American Health Care, so until now I don't know how similar the situation the American and the Chinese encounter are when they go to their respective hospitals or pharmacies. Personally speaking, the first question the doctor would asked me is "What kind of insurance do you have?" rather than "what's wrong?"

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/09...020-elections/

Dear America:

Costly complexity is baked into Obamacare, and although it has improved access to healthcare for some, tens of millions of Americans still cannot afford basic medical care for their family. No healthcare system is without problems but Canadian-style single-payer — full Medicare for all — is simple, affordable, comprehensive and universal for all basic and emergency medical and hospital services.

In the mid-1960s, President Lyndon Johnson enrolled 20 million elderly Americans into Medicare in six months. There were no websites. They did it with index cards!

Below please find 25 ways the Canadian health care system — and the resulting quality of life in Canada — is better than the chaotic, wasteful and often cruel U.S. system.

Replace it with the much more efficient Medicare-for-all: everybody in, nobody out, free choice of doctor and hospital. It will produce far less anxiety, dread, and fear. Hear that, Congress and the White House!

Number 25:

In Canada, everyone is covered automatically at birth – everybody in, nobody out. A human right.

In the United States, under Obamacare, 28 million Americans (9 percent) are still uninsured and 85 million Americans (26 percent) are underinsured. Obamacare is made even worse by Trumpcare restrictions. (See Trumpcare by John Geyman MD (2019)).

Number 24:

In Canada, the health system is designed to put people, not profits, first.

In the United States, Obamacare has done little to curb insurance industry profits and in fact has increased the concentrated insurance industry’s massive profits.

Number 23:

In Canada, coverage is not tied to a job or dependent on your income – rich and poor are in the same system, the best guaranty of quality.

In the United States, under Obamacare, much still depends on your job or income. Lose your job or lose your income, and you might lose your existing health insurance or have to settle for lesser coverage.

Number 22:

In Canada, health care coverage stays with you for your entire life.

In the United States, under Obamacare, for tens of millions of Americans, health care coverage stays with you only for as long as you can afford your insurance.

Number 21:

In Canada, you can freely choose your doctors and hospitals and keep them.

In the United States, under Obamacare, the in-network list of places where you can get treated is shrinking – thus restricting freedom of choice – and if you want to go out of network, you pay dearly for it.

Number 20:

In Canada, the health care system is funded by income, sales and corporate taxes that, combined, are much lower than what Americans pay in insurance premiums directly and indirectly per employer.

In the United States, under Obamacare, for thousands of Americans, it’s pay or die – if you can’t pay, you die. That’s why many thousands will still die every year under Obamacare from lack of health insurance to get diagnosed and treated in time. The survivors are confronted with very high, often unregulated drug prices.

Number 19:

In Canada, there are no complex hospital or doctor bills. In fact, usually you don’t even see a bill.

In the United States, under Obamacare, hospital and doctor bills are terribly complex, replete with massive billing fraud estimated to be at least $350 billion a year by Harvard Professor Malcolm Sparrow.

Number 18:

In Canada, costs are controlled. Canada pays 10 percent of its GDP for its health care system, covering everyone.

In the United States, under Obamacare, costs continue to skyrocket. The U.S. currently pays 17.9 percent of its GDP and still doesn’t cover tens of millions of people.

Number 17:

In Canada, it is unheard of for anyone to go bankrupt due to health care costs.

In the United States, health-care-driven bankruptcy will continue to plague Americans.

Number 16:

In Canada, simplicity leads to major savings in administrative costs and overhead.

In the United States, under Obamacare, often staggering complexity ratchets up huge administrative costs and overhead.

Number 15:

In Canada, when you go to a doctor or hospital the first thing they ask you is: “What’s wrong?”

In the United States, the first thing they ask you is: “What kind of insurance do you have?”

Number 14:

In Canada, the government negotiates drug prices so they are more affordable.

In the United States, under Obamacare, Congress made it specifically illegal for the government to negotiate drug prices for volume purchases. As a result, drug prices remain exorbitant and continue to skyrocket.

Number 13:

In Canada, the government health care funds are not profitably diverted to the top one percent.

In the United States, under Obamacare, health care funds will continue to flow to the top. In 2017, the CEO of Aetna alone made a whopping $59 million.

Number 12:

In Canada, there are no required co-pays or deductibles in inscrutable contracts.

In the United States, under Obamacare, the deductibles and co-pays will continue to be unaffordable for many millions of Americans. Fine print traps are everywhere.

Number 11:

In Canada, the health care system contributes to social solidarity and national pride.

In the United States, Obamacare is divisive, with rich and poor in different systems and tens of millions left out or with sorely limited benefits.

Number 10:

In Canada, delays in health care are not due to the cost of insurance.

In the United States, under Obamacare, patients without health insurance or who are underinsured delay or forgo care and put their lives at risk.

Number 9:

In Canada, nobody dies due to lack of health insurance.

In the United States, tens of thousands of Americans will continue to die every year because they lack health insurance or can’t pay much higher prices for drugs, medical devices, and health care itself.

Number 8:

In Canada, health care on average costs half as much, per person, as in the United States. And in Canada, unlike in the United States, everyone is covered.

In the United States, a majority support Medicare-for-all. But they are being blocked by lawmakers and their corporate paymasters.

Number 7:

In Canada, the tax payments to fund the health care system are modestly progressive – the lowest 20 percent pays 6 percent of income into the system while the highest 20 percent pays 8 percent.

In the United States, under Obamacare, the poor pay a larger share of their income for health care than the affluent.

Number 6:

In Canada, people use GoFundMe to start new businesses.

In the United States, fully one in three GoFundMe fundraisers are now to raise money to pay medical bills. Recently, one American was rejected for a heart transplant because she couldn’t afford the follow-up care. Her insurance company suggested she raise the money through GoFundMe.

Number 5:

In Canada, people avoid prison at all costs.

In the United States, some Americans commit minor crimes so that they can get to prison and receive free health care.

Number 4:

In Canada, people look forward to the benefits of early retirement.

In the United States, people delay retirement to 65 to avoid being uninsured.

Number 3:

In Canada, Nobel Prize winners hold on to their medal and pass it down to their children and grandchildren.

In the United States, a Nobel Prize winner sold his medal to help pay for his medical bills.

Leon Lederman won a Nobel Prize in 1988 for his pioneering physics research. But in 2015, the physicist, who passed away in November 2018, sold his Nobel Prize medal for $765,000 to pay his mounting medical bills.

Number 2:

In Canada, the system is simple. You get a health care card when you are born. And you swipe it when you go to a doctor or hospital. End of story.

In the United States, Obamacare’s 954 pages plus regulations (the Canadian Medicare Bill was 13 pages) is so complex that then Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said before passage “we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.”

Number 1:

In Canada, the majority of citizens love their health care system.

In the United States, a growing majority of citizens, physicians, and nurses prefer the Canadian type system – Medicare-for-all, free choice of doctor and hospital , everybody in, nobody out and far less expensive with better outcomes overall.

It’s decision time, America!
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Old 09-21-2019, 10:12 AM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

The article headline proclaims to provide a list of 25 reasons Canada's health care is superior to Obamacare but it's actually a list of the purported superiority of Canada's government run health insurance. The OP assumes health care insurance coverage is the same as actual health care delivery, they are not.

Due to excessive wait times, poor quality care and tens of thousands of Canadians fleeing to the US for medical care the Canadian government was forced to allow the evil, for profit health care providers to provide health care services for cash. If you can afford it, you can skip the line waiting for health care and go to a clinic equipped with the best doctors and technology.

A few years ago the premier of Quebec, a staunch advocate of Canada's socialized medicine went to the US for breast cancer treatment. Although she had coverage in Canada, when her life was on the line due to a serious health issue she chose the greedy, costly US healthcare system over Canada's altruistic but inferior care.
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Old 09-21-2019, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The article headline proclaims to provide a list of 25 reasons Canada's health care is superior to Obamacare but it's actually a list of the purported superiority of Canada's government run health insurance. The OP assumes health care insurance coverage is the same as actual health care delivery, they are not.

Due to excessive wait times, poor quality care and tens of thousands of Canadians fleeing to the US for medical care the Canadian government was forced to allow the evil, for profit health care providers to provide health care services for cash. If you can afford it, you can skip the line waiting for health care and go to a clinic equipped with the best doctors and technology.

A few years ago the premier of Quebec, a staunch advocate of Canada's socialized medicine went to the US for breast cancer treatment. Although she had coverage in Canada, when her life was on the line due to a serious health issue she chose the greedy, costly US healthcare system over Canada's altruistic but inferior care.
I always find it odd that liberals somehow equate health insurance with health care.
President Obama did nothing to improve heath care (his stated goal), he merely altered health insurance. Yet somehow, liberals think President Obama improved health care. It's almost as if they believe that insurance equals medical care.
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Old 09-23-2019, 07:07 AM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

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Originally Posted by Bat View Post
I always find it odd that liberals somehow equate health insurance with health care.
President Obama did nothing to improve heath care (his stated goal), he merely altered health insurance. Yet somehow, liberals think President Obama improved health care. It's almost as if they believe that insurance equals medical care.
Obama's stated goal was to provide HC coverage for everyone and reduce costs in the process. His solution was to put the government in charge and make everything better.

I don't for one minute believe that Obama's actual goal was to provide HC coverage for everyone, but for a moment I will accept that premise. So my question then becomes, if he truly wanted affordable HC coverage for everyone, why then did he not focus on the drivers of the rising costs in the HC market? Why was the focus only on the third party payer system?

If Congress or the President truly wanted to work to bring down HC costs, focusing on the drivers of those costs would be an effective starting point, not demonizing the third party payers of the cost.

For example, one large driver of cost in the HC market is litigation. You cannot turn on a television without seeing commercials for law firms wanting to sue someone due to a less than desirable outcome for a medical procedure. If the Congress would address tort reform with something akin to loser pays, you could put a serious dent in the HC costs of this country.
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Old 09-23-2019, 08:30 AM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esmee View Post
A female Chinese professor once wrote a paper to compare the Chinese Health Care with the American Health Care and concluded in the end of it that the Chinese Health Care would be more beneficial to the average Chinese people. At that time, someone commented following the paper that the American Health Care had been terrible known to all the world, and it would be also terrible if the Chinese Health Care should be a little more beneficial to ordinary people, but I had no idea a bit about the American Health Care, so until now I don't know how similar the situation the American and the Chinese encounter are when they go to their respective hospitals or pharmacies. Personally speaking, the first question the doctor would asked me is "What kind of insurance do you have?" rather than "what's wrong?"
https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/09...020-elections/

Dear America:

Costly complexity is baked into Obamacare, and although it has improved access to healthcare for some, tens of millions of Americans still cannot afford basic medical care for their family. No healthcare system is without problems but Canadian-style single-payer — full Medicare for all — is simple, affordable, comprehensive and universal for all basic and emergency medical and hospital services.

In the mid-1960s, President Lyndon Johnson enrolled 20 million elderly Americans into Medicare in six months. There were no websites. They did it with index cards!

Below please find 25 ways the Canadian health care system — and the resulting quality of life in Canada — is better than the chaotic, wasteful and often cruel U.S. system.

Replace it with the much more efficient Medicare-for-all: everybody in, nobody out, free choice of doctor and hospital. It will produce far less anxiety, dread, and fear. Hear that, Congress and the White House!...…..


…...…..In Canada, the majority of citizens love their health care system.

In the United States, a growing majority of citizens, physicians, and nurses prefer the Canadian type system – Medicare-for-all, free choice of doctor and hospital , everybody in, nobody out and far less expensive with better outcomes overall.

It’s decision time, America!
Esmee,

I bolded the paragraph that puts your assumptions in proper perspective. It's called propaganda. It is no surprise to us that your government would propose such misinformation to it's citizens. American Healthcare was world renowned for it's superior quality and delivery of health services. It was also renowned for it higher costs. A problem perhaps. But it funded an ability to provide basic healthcare services for everyone.


Obamacare isn't Healthcare at all. It is a mandated requirement to buy "Health Insurance." It creates a new cash flow into private insurance companies and mandates health procedures many people do not need. or want.

Canadian Healthcare, as compared sole to American Healthcare is substandard in it's ability to deliver services quickly to those who want medical care. Longer wait times, fewer doctors, fewer labs and significantly less diagnostic equipment.

American Healthcare lacks the ability to service those of lower monetary incomes with the exact same services as it provides citizens of modest incomes and wealth. But it denies no one access to care.

Obamacare is a clumsy attempt to provide equal access by lowering the quality and quantity available to all citizens thereby making access "equal."

The very rich are, essentially, unaffected.

Americans loved their Healthcare prior to Obamacare. Only politicians and the private Insurance industry loathed the system we had. The addition of the mandate did nothing to help the poor. It was easily avoided by the rich and placed an extra burden on the working middle class.

Canada has a very system of payment and delivery for services. Yes, Canadians like it. They have known no other system. But, they do tend to come here when the medical procedure is urgent. It seems those that can pay for medical services, would prefer prompt and comprehensive, high quality service.

Were it not for the ability to access our system, one wonders how enamored they would be if restricted to only theirs's.

The Chinese have come along way in a very short time to design from scratch, and create a system, virtually brand-new, that is cutting edge and fits the ideology of a communist society dependent on the government. Good for you.
The Canadian system developed on the archaic monarchial system of government responsible for providing everything to the population
The American system it developed organically over time by free people. It carries some of the mistakes of it's organic development much like we still have an appendix in our bodies we do not need. But it is still there.

Which is best depends on one's preference for individual freedom
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Old 09-29-2019, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
Obama's stated goal was to provide HC coverage for everyone and reduce costs in the process. His solution was to put the government in charge and make everything better.

I don't for one minute believe that Obama's actual goal was to provide HC coverage for everyone, but for a moment I will accept that premise. So my question then becomes, if he truly wanted affordable HC coverage for everyone, why then did he not focus on the drivers of the rising costs in the HC market? Why was the focus only on the third party payer system?

If Congress or the President truly wanted to work to bring down HC costs, focusing on the drivers of those costs would be an effective starting point, not demonizing the third party payers of the cost.

For example, one large driver of cost in the HC market is litigation. You cannot turn on a television without seeing commercials for law firms wanting to sue someone due to a less than desirable outcome for a medical procedure. If the Congress would address tort reform with something akin to loser pays, you could put a serious dent in the HC costs of this country.
His stated goal was to reduce health care costs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdyY2616Qks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_yt9GT-Mas

Both youtube videos clearly show that he speaks of reducing healthcare costs.
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Old 09-29-2019, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esmee View Post
A female Chinese professor once wrote a paper to compare the Chinese Health Care with the American Health Care and concluded in the end of it that the Chinese Health Care would be more beneficial to the average Chinese people. At that time, someone commented following the paper that the American Health Care had been terrible known to all the world, and it would be also terrible if the Chinese Health Care should be a little more beneficial to ordinary people, but I had no idea a bit about the American Health Care, so until now I don't know how similar the situation the American and the Chinese encounter are when they go to their respective hospitals or pharmacies. Personally speaking, the first question the doctor would asked me is "What kind of insurance do you have?" rather than "what's wrong?"

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/09...020-elections/

Dear America:

...
Itís decision time, America!
Yes, and can you believe it was worse before Obama care? That is why most Americans want Medicare for all. A single-payer system. The next Presidential election hinges on that subject and the subject of corruption.
Thank you for spelling this out here.
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Old 09-29-2019, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

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Yes, and can you believe it was worse before Obama care? That is why most Americans want Medicare for all. A single-payer system. The next Presidential election hinges on that subject and the subject of corruption.
Thank you for spelling this out here.
See the part in red. You either lie or are very ignorant.
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:04 AM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat View Post
His stated goal was to reduce health care costs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdyY2616Qks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_yt9GT-Mas

Both youtube videos clearly show that he speaks of reducing healthcare costs.
And I never said otherwise. However, it would take a fool or a complete partisan to believe that was the ultimate goal. My point was, if you are looking to reduce health care costs, why are you focusing on the payer end of the system instead of the delivery end?
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Yes, and can you believe it was worse before Obama care? That is why most Americans want Medicare for all. A single-payer system. The next Presidential election hinges on that subject and the subject of corruption.
Thank you for spelling this out here.
Yeah, it's so much better now that my HC insurance costs have more than doubled, my deductible went from about $500 to $9000 and my out of pocket max went from $2500 to $13,000. Good times!

What an ignorant post.
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