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ObamaCare Discuss 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Electio at the General Forum; Originally Posted by saltwn Yes, and can you believe it was worse before Obama care? That is why most Americans ...

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Old 10-02-2019, 12:09 PM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Yes, and can you believe it was worse before Obama care? That is why most Americans want Medicare for all. A single-payer system. The next Presidential election hinges on that subject and the subject of corruption.
Thank you for spelling this out here.
You are the only person that I have heard say that health care is better now. Or are you talking about Insurance? either way, you are the only one I know of.
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Old 10-06-2019, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
And I never said otherwise. However, it would take a fool or a complete partisan to believe that was the ultimate goal. My point was, if you are looking to reduce health care costs, why are you focusing on the payer end of the system instead of the delivery end?
I didn't say 'ultimate goal', I said 'stated goal'.
I think we sort of agree that what was accomplished did nothing to reduce actual health care costs.

I know this makes me sound evil and cold, but I truly believe that medical professionals (including hospital emergency rooms) should be allowed to refuse service to those with no insurance or ability to pay. Medical care at an ER is the only service one can use (demand) and never pay for.

I'd like for anybody with a specialized skill to tell me that they would be willing to provide their skilled services free of charge to anybody that showed up at their place of business if the person demanded it.
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

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Originally Posted by Bat View Post
I didn't say 'ultimate goal', I said 'stated goal'.
I think we sort of agree that what was accomplished did nothing to reduce actual health care costs.

I know this makes me sound evil and cold, but I truly believe that medical professionals (including hospital emergency rooms) should be allowed to refuse service to those with no insurance or ability to pay. Medical care at an ER is the only service one can use (demand) and never pay for.

I'd like for anybody with a specialized skill to tell me that they would be willing to provide their skilled services free of charge to anybody that showed up at their place of business if the person demanded it.
Responding to your bold'd statement:

I don't have a problem with life saving treatments to be provided to everyone in need of life saving treatments. However, there should then be an effort to recover those costs. I don't believe that we should be allowing people to die in the waiting room trying to prove they have the means to pay for the treatment.

However, when it comes to elective procedures, by all means either pay or find a way to pay.

But again, if we put the time in to looks for ways to reduce costs in the HC industry instead of focusing only on who pays for it, we would probably find ways to bring downs costs to the point where most people could afford basic HC insurance that would cover catastrophic instances.
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Old 10-07-2019, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat View Post
I didn't say 'ultimate goal', I said 'stated goal'.
I think we sort of agree that what was accomplished did nothing to reduce actual health care costs.

I know this makes me sound evil and cold, but I truly believe that medical professionals (including hospital emergency rooms) should be allowed to refuse service to those with no insurance or ability to pay. Medical care at an ER is the only service one can use (demand) and never pay for.

I'd like for anybody with a specialized skill to tell me that they would be willing to provide their skilled services free of charge to anybody that showed up at their place of business if the person demanded it.
I don't have a copy of the Hippocratic Oath readily available, my understanding the basis of it is the preservation life... and leaving those in desperate need untreated, to die, would be a violation of that oath.

I've been one of those people who needed immediate help, with no insurance. Of course this was 40 years ago, but the bill I was presented with after my ER visit, was negotiated with the billing department to about 60%, and a payment plan put in place. I paid that bill off in about a year I believe.

I don't have an issue contributing towards emergency treatment of life threatening situations, because the health care has actually been received. I do object to paying for 'insurance' which is nothing but a front loaded payment mechanism that is NOT health care.

As to 'not getting paid', those of us who do have insurance, or pay taxes, or both, do end up paying for it in other ways. A number of professionals do charitable work and provide their services free or low charges, I guess the medical version of noblesse oblige is one way to look at it.
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Old 10-29-2019, 04:01 PM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

Here is an interesting article about Single Payer HC.

Quote:
What We Call National Health Care or Single-Payer Is a Crime Against Humanity

When Bernie Sanders visited Canada’s national health care system on a fact-finding mission, he came away mightily impressed. “Somehow or another in Canada,” he said, “for a number of decades, they have provided quality care to all people without out-of-pocket expenses…And they do it for about 50 percent per capita of the cost that we spend.” His claims are not only debatable, they are fraudulent. Anyone who cites the Canadian model as a medical paradigm is guilty of special pleading.

For one thing, “quality care” does not exist in Canada; indeed, such “care” closely approximates Third-World levels, as we will see below. For another, according to a 2018 Canadian government survey, out-of-pocket expenses constitute about $36 billion or 15 percent of health care spending. As we know, government reports regularly underestimate in their projections. Out-of-pocket expenses are far higher, not only for dental and many pharmaceuticals—the Canadian system does not cover essential medications—but with regard to value-added surcharges.

...

As for Bernie, who, unlike my friend, underwent heart surgery on the same day that he experienced chest pains, there is apparently no conflict of interest. Socialists never worry about inconsistency. Ironically, although highly critical of Israel and sympathetic to its enemies, Bernie’s life was saved by stent implants developed in Israel, which makes him the cardiac hypocrite par excellence. But on second thought, most of those who sing the praises of national health care while profiting from parallel systems are equally hypocritical. Only the common folk, deluded or helpless as always, need suffer the terminal disease of single-payer medicare. As John Robson mordantly writes in the National Post, “we have the greatest health-care system in the world no matter how awful the results.”

Whenever I visit one of our hospitals, I see in mind’s eye Dante’s inscription over the Gates of Hell in Canto III of the Inferno: Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politic...recip=20684376

The quote in bold got my attention. Bernie favors a system where the average wait time is counted in week and months while himself having a procedure done the same day in which the problem is found. As with most in the ruling class, they would not have to wait for their services, that is for those of us "unwashed masses".
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Old 10-29-2019, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: 25 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare for the 2020 Ele

Sorry to see that @esmee is a hit and run poster on the subject....
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