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ObamaCare Discuss House Democrats to release 'Medicare for All' bill without a price tag at the General Forum; Originally Posted by saltwn That study going around on Bernie Sanders' 'Medicare for All' plan comes with a big catch ...

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Old 03-01-2019, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: House Democrats to release 'Medicare for All' bill without a price tag

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
That study going around on Bernie Sanders' 'Medicare for All' plan comes with a big catch the US would actually be saving money overall on healthcare-

says Business Insider
Medicare for all insurers 30 million more people and miraculously costs less than the current healthcare system. It even does so without increasing the number of doctors and healthcare providers. Sound too good to be true? It is.

According to the linked article.

Quote:
The savings would come from a variety of places, such as the government's ability to leverage its bargaining power into lower prescription-drug costs and mandating all healthcare providers take the lower Medicare payment rate.
Say goodbye to expensive advanced drugs like those saving lives afflicted with cancer. Say goodbye to research and development of new drugs.

Remember when Obamacare passed and many doctors stopped taking Medicare in anticipation of the cuts to reimbursement rates? Medicare covers around 80% of many medical costs. By artificially imposing prices Bernie's plan would slash healthcare providers compensation by 20% or more. But don't worry Bernie's magic will see us into a golden future with an all you can eat buffet of healthcare for less money just like Canada where there is a 10 month wait for maternity ward beds.

The most expensive delivery mode for healthcare is the ER. Expanded Medicaid as part of Obamacare provides us with a population of new health coverage people. Guess what happened to their ER usage? It increased by 4%. Now Bernie wants to add 30 million new people sure to flood the ER's across the fruited plain but Bernie's plan will save billions.
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Old 03-01-2019, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: House Democrats to release 'Medicare for All' bill without a price tag

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Medicare for all insurers 30 million more people and miraculously costs less than the current healthcare system. It even does so without increasing the number of doctors and healthcare providers. Sound too good to be true? It is.

According to the linked article.



Say goodbye to expensive advanced drugs like those saving lives afflicted with cancer. Say goodbye to research and development of new drugs.

Remember when Obamacare passed and many doctors stopped taking Medicare in anticipation of the cuts to reimbursement rates? Medicare covers around 80% of many medical costs. By artificially imposing prices Bernie's plan would slash healthcare providers compensation by 20% or more. But don't worry Bernie's magic will see us into a golden future with an all you can eat buffet of healthcare for less money just like Canada where there is a 10 month wait for maternity ward beds.

The most expensive delivery mode for healthcare is the ER. Expanded Medicaid as part of Obamacare provides us with a population of new health coverage people. Guess what happened to their ER usage? It increased by 4%. Now Bernie wants to add 30 million new people sure to flood the ER's across the fruited plain but Bernie's plan will save billions.
say good bye to big pharma electing your candidate. yes. research will still go on. ever heard of government research grants? also private funds do research all the time but big pharma's big microphone edges a lot of them out. You know how all the new cures for cancers came about?
GENERAL research grants. specifically DNA research paved the way to understand how these cancers formed.
Just one example.
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Old 03-02-2019, 01:21 AM
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Default Re: House Democrats to release 'Medicare for All' bill without a price tag

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
It very well might, but it would be highly unlikely. However what would be sure to change is the level of care you would receive if needed. You need look no further than Canada or the UK to see how care is rationed in a single payer system. If you are not dying, your wait to see a doctor is not days, but months. By then, depending upon the illness for which you seek service, you very well could then be dying.
No- that would not happen on Medicare for all. Not if it's the same as normal Medicare. I don't know why it's called "single" payer. There are many Insurance companies that participate in the Medicare program.
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Old 03-02-2019, 02:08 AM
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Default Re: House Democrats to release 'Medicare for All' bill without a price tag

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No- that would not happen on Medicare for all. Not if it's the same as normal Medicare. I don't know why it's called "single" payer. There are many Insurance companies that participate in the Medicare program.
If there is medicare for all or something to that effect I believe this will be part of the compromise that Humana and AARP, virtually all the participants in alternatives to Medicare also the extra coverage programs will remain in the bll game.
For me the compromise is key.
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:10 AM
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Default Re: House Democrats to release 'Medicare for All' bill without a price tag

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
say good bye to big pharma electing your candidate. yes. research will still go on. ever heard of government research grants? also private funds do research all the time but big pharma's big microphone edges a lot of them out. You know how all the new cures for cancers came about?
GENERAL research grants. specifically DNA research paved the way to understand how these cancers formed.
Just one example.
On average it takes a $ billion to bring a new drug to market, that's if the trials demonstrate its efficacy and safety. Keep in mind the ones that fail produce no revenue. Under Medicare for all price fixing there is no incentive for taking the risk of making the huge investment to bring a new drug to market.

Take for example the introduction of new drugs to treat Hepatitis C. At +90% efficacy with minimal side effects drugs like Harvoni were a major breakthrough in treatment in what could be a deadly disease. But the bureaucrats in charge of Medicare balked at paying Harvoni's hefty price tag for older patients. Sure, the drug worked but it wasn't in the public interest to make the investment in people who weren't going to live that long anyway. Under Medicare for all bureaucrats will make these life and death decisions for everyone.

Not a word attempting to explain the magical process where Medicare for all will flood the healthcare system with an additional 30 million or more new people at government fixed lower reimbursement rates yet still maintain the same level of quality we enjoy now.
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: House Democrats to release 'Medicare for All' bill without a price tag

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No- that would not happen on Medicare for all. Not if it's the same as normal Medicare. I don't know why it's called "single" payer. There are many Insurance companies that participate in the Medicare program.
Under the current Medicare system patients are responsible for typically 20% of medical expenses. The Medicare supplement policies the AARP hucksters hawk cover all or part of this gap.

Medicare for all generates false savings by slashing payment to healthcare providers to the current Medicare payment rates. The result would be a substantial reduction in availability of healthcare which accounts for the overall reduction in health care spending. If you die while waiting in line it's all to the good for cost reduction.

Medicare for all with bureaucrat fixed reimbursement rates eliminates private insurance. No doubt there will be an allowance for cash customers but for most of us it will simply be take whatever the government offers whenever it's available.
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Old 03-02-2019, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: House Democrats to release 'Medicare for All' bill without a price tag

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
That study going around on Bernie Sanders' 'Medicare for All' plan comes with a big catch the US would actually be saving money overall on healthcare-
It takes a special kind of stupid to believe that Medicare for all would be cheaper than the current system.
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Old 03-03-2019, 07:46 AM
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Default Re: House Democrats to release 'Medicare for All' bill without a price tag

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It takes a special kind of stupid to believe that Medicare for all would be cheaper than the current system.
Indeed, simple arithmetic tells us that if you add 30 million plus another 20 million or so illegal aliens to the healthcare system while removing any cost considerations to the patient demand will skyrocket. Obamacare was supposed to provide high quality affordable health insurance to all Americans. It failed as designed but now we are supposed to trust a vast expansion of Federal control administered by politically appointed bureaucrats to make good on the promises of Obamacare for less cost.
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Old 03-04-2019, 07:18 AM
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Default Re: House Democrats to release 'Medicare for All' bill without a price tag

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
I pay about $30,000 a year for health insurance, plus a significant chunk of my law firm's profits that would otherwise be available for distribution to partners like me is used to pay for health insurance for employees. I'm fairly certain that I would pay less than that in taxes if this plan were implemented.
$30,000 in health insurance premiums, means you ride in a Cadillac limo. You should be ashamed that you have not shared your health coverage with those who deserve a 'living wage' for unskilled labor. *oozing sarcasm*

Our health plan with a well known insurer, with 100% coverage after a $5,000 deductible, in a expanded network, doctor/ER copays of 25/50/100 and copays on prescriptions of 10/25/50, for a family plan is $18,000 a year.

Not that you would inflate your stated premiums for the *gasp* effect or anything, but methinks you may have hedged the number a wee bit.
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Old 03-04-2019, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: House Democrats to release 'Medicare for All' bill without a price tag

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Medicare for all insurers 30 million more people and miraculously costs less than the current healthcare system. It even does so without increasing the number of doctors and healthcare providers. Sound too good to be true? It is.

According to the linked article.



Say goodbye to expensive advanced drugs like those saving lives afflicted with cancer. Say goodbye to research and development of new drugs.

Remember when Obamacare passed and many doctors stopped taking Medicare in anticipation of the cuts to reimbursement rates? Medicare covers around 80% of many medical costs. By artificially imposing prices Bernie's plan would slash healthcare providers compensation by 20% or more. But don't worry Bernie's magic will see us into a golden future with an all you can eat buffet of healthcare for less money just like Canada where there is a 10 month wait for maternity ward beds.

The most expensive delivery mode for healthcare is the ER. Expanded Medicaid as part of Obamacare provides us with a population of new health coverage people. Guess what happened to their ER usage? It increased by 4%. Now Bernie wants to add 30 million new people sure to flood the ER's across the fruited plain but Bernie's plan will save billions.
Say goodbye to any new advances in medicine. Companies don't develop new innovative products to take the mandated lowest fee.

We do have some idea just how efficient free for all health care will be. Ocare's first major expenditure was the web site, which cost more than the next 3 most expensive combined.
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