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ObamaCare Discuss Cities Sue Trump for Violating Constitution With Latest Effort to Upend Obamacare at the General Forum; Originally Posted by GottaGo No, the individual insurance market is NOT 'Obamacare'. Individuals can and do purchase individual insurance policies ...

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Old 08-15-2018, 09:11 AM
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Default Re: Cities Sue Trump for Violating Constitution With Latest Effort to Upend Obamacare

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
No, the individual insurance market is NOT 'Obamacare'. Individuals can and do purchase individual insurance policies with out subsidies. The PRICES of those policies were drastically increased based upon the requirements under the PPACA, since people now have to pay for 'requirements' that they don't necessarily want or need, and pay for people who failed to take responsibility for themselves and are allowed to purchase insurance with pre-existing conditions with no penalty.

You do understand what a subsidy is, and who funds, correct? The woman is obviously a little off center if she thinks it was due to something Trump set up.
Insurance policies are based upon a "group" and they always have benefits that most policy holders never use. It's the "group" that makes the policies affordable because not all of the members of the group use all of the benefits of the policies. For example the policy can cover cancer that can be very expensive to treat but if you never get cancer you're paying for a benefit you'll never use.

The insurance coverage must provide comprehensive protections based upon what the medical profession establishes as necessary. Individuals are generally unqualified to determine what their medical needs are that form the basis for the benefits package.

Subsidies for the PPACA were to cover the costs above what the household could reasonably be expected to pay for the comprehensive health insurance they required.

The subsidies were paid for by a tax of less than 4% that was imposed on high income households. The vast majority of Americans did not pay anything to fund Obamacare except for their portion of the premiums.

The premiums soared under Obamacare because Republicans refused to fund the government's portion of the costs.
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Old 08-15-2018, 09:31 AM
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Default Re: Cities Sue Trump for Violating Constitution With Latest Effort to Upend Obamacare

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Fewer people apprehended at the border under Trump than under Obama.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/fi...ort-fy2017.pdf

Fewer deportations under Trump than under Obama.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1DZ2O5

President Obama had superior border enforcement based upon the number of border arrests and a superior deportation process because he deported more people than President Trump. What does that tell us about Obama and Trump?

The difference is that President Obama relied on our American values in addressing unlawful immigration while President Trump has a different agenda.

Donald Trump and Jeff Sessions are both White Nationalists (racists) that are attempting to impose the racist restrictions on immigration that started with the Chinese Exclusion Act, our first immigration restriction law, and was finalized with the (Johnson-Reed) Immigration Act of 1924 that virtually eliminated immigration from everywhere except Northern European white Protestant nations.

If people are racists then they love Trump's racist immigration agenda. If people believe in our American ideology then they prefer Obama's "American values" immigration agenda that's very closely related to Reagan's American values immigration law revisions that were based on family values and non-discriminatory immigration laws in the 1980's.
Another comment long on polemics and distortions but short on facts.

Fewer people were deported because fewer illegal aliens attempted or made entry into the US. There is a net outflow of illegals under Trump's policy of enforcing our laws. What's Trump supposed to do, raid Mexico for more people to deport?

President Obama revived the policy of catch and release discontinued under his predecessor. He turned the Border Patrol into a concierge service for unaccompanied minors even delivering them to illegal aliens living in the US. His administration enacted a highly restrictive set of rules for deportation. He also created programs to grant virtual amnesty to illegals by executive decree after bills doing the same failed in Congress and announcing in multiple speeches he didn't have the authority to do so. That's subordinating the law to Obama's political agenda not enforcement.

In multiple comments you focus on past immigration laws while ignoring the 1990 immigration act brainchild of Ted Kennedy in force today. It is loaded with preferential treatment for unskilled, poor third world immigrants without interest in assimilation, perfect for the Democrat party to expand their base. You never mention all the problems such as chain migration and the lottery system built into this law.

The declaration that Trump and Sessions are white supremacists for wanting to enforce our immigration laws is completely over the top. It is the worst sort of Resistance hatred that makes finding common ground impossible.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: Cities Sue Trump for Violating Constitution With Latest Effort to Upend Obamacare

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Do you think tRUmp understands that the individual insurance market is Obamacare, and that if it fails millions of people- not just libruls- won't be able to purchase health insurance? People will literally die because of his and the Republicans sabotage of the ACA.


and as an aside, I read this the other day......
You can't possibly believe that.

Obamacare is anything but private insurance.

People will die. They always have. They always will. It will not be because of lack of insurance options.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:47 AM
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Default Re: Cities Sue Trump for Violating Constitution With Latest Effort to Upend Obamacare

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Insurance policies are based upon a "group" and they always have benefits that most policy holders never use. It's the "group" that makes the policies affordable because not all of the members of the group use all of the benefits of the policies. For example the policy can cover cancer that can be very expensive to treat but if you never get cancer you're paying for a benefit you'll never use.

The insurance coverage must provide comprehensive protections based upon what the medical profession establishes as necessary. Individuals are generally unqualified to determine what their medical needs are that form the basis for the benefits package.

Subsidies for the PPACA were to cover the costs above what the household could reasonably be expected to pay for the comprehensive health insurance they required.

The subsidies were paid for by a tax of less than 4% that was imposed on high income households. The vast majority of Americans did not pay anything to fund Obamacare except for their portion of the premiums.

The premiums soared under Obamacare because Republicans refused to fund the government's portion of the costs.
Not ALL insurance policies are based upon a group, lets just clarify that first.

Second, group policies, such as what is provided by an employer, are a LIMITED group, and there are ways to mitigate who has access to the group. Yes, risk factors are spread across that particular group, but one thing to keep in mind on an employer group... all the participants are EMPLOYED, and there for are not a 'fully subsidized' group, as in, they are paying at least something for the coverage they receive.

The PPACA removed restrictions of limiting who had access to the group plans, and weighted the premiums as such that if someone did not meet the subsidy requirements, the premiums were higher then most private group plans, in order to offset some of the cost of subsidizing those who fully qualified for it. Putting that in basic terms, those that did not have access to employer sponsored plans and id not qualify to be subsidized, were screwed.

The pre-PPACA insurance premiums soared up because insurance companies knew their increases would be capped under the PPACA, and once they had the premiums jacked, they could claim 8-10% increases under the PPACA and still come out ahead of the game because they had banked the excess premiums against the increase caps.

I'm still trying to figure out how a 4% tax on higher income households could be considered legitimate. Once again, just another form of wealth distribution and justified in the socialist view of things. The Noblesse Oblige does NOT mean unending support for those who refuse to do something to support themselves.
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: Cities Sue Trump for Violating Constitution With Latest Effort to Upend Obamacare

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Not ALL insurance policies are based upon a group, lets just clarify that first.

Second, group policies, such as what is provided by an employer, are a LIMITED group, and there are ways to mitigate who has access to the group. Yes, risk factors are spread across that particular group, but one thing to keep in mind on an employer group... all the participants are EMPLOYED, and there for are not a 'fully subsidized' group, as in, they are paying at least something for the coverage they receive.

The PPACA removed restrictions of limiting who had access to the group plans, and weighted the premiums as such that if someone did not meet the subsidy requirements, the premiums were higher then most private group plans, in order to offset some of the cost of subsidizing those who fully qualified for it. Putting that in basic terms, those that did not have access to employer sponsored plans and id not qualify to be subsidized, were screwed.

The pre-PPACA insurance premiums soared up because insurance companies knew their increases would be capped under the PPACA, and once they had the premiums jacked, they could claim 8-10% increases under the PPACA and still come out ahead of the game because they had banked the excess premiums against the increase caps.

I'm still trying to figure out how a 4% tax on higher income households could be considered legitimate. Once again, just another form of wealth distribution and justified in the socialist view of things. The Noblesse Oblige does NOT mean unending support for those who refuse to do something to support themselves.
Good job setting the record straight GG.
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: Cities Sue Trump for Violating Constitution With Latest Effort to Upend Obamacare

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Absolutely hysterical...

After 8 years of Obama's total disregard of border laws and enforcement, these cities NOW have a problem...
Where does the "right" come up with the "wrong" information.

Early in the Obama presidency he was known as the "Deporter-in-Chief" because of how much of an increase in deportation that were occurring when compared to President George W Bush.

Compare 2009, Obama's first year in office, when there were 390,000 deportations to 2017, Trump's first year in office, when there were only about 227,000 deportations. That's a 40% decline in deportations under President Trump.


The difference between Obama and Trump is the strategy between the two administrations.

Obama prioritized border enforcement based upon the law and our American values. Deportations focused new arrivals and those that represented a threat to the people or our nation. Showing compassion for those that have lived in the United States for decades, that grew up as Americans, that have a spouse and/or children that are US citizens, and trying to work with them to provide lawful immigration status under existing law. Obama provided a balanced approach based upon his authorized budget by Congress.

Trump's strategy is mass arrests of undocumented non-white/non-Protestant aliens, ignoring laws and preventing lawful immigration, and the use of coercion and fear as well as unconstitutional and immoral actions all based upon a White Nationalist (racist) agenda promoted by Steve Miller (a former fund raiser for Neo-Nazi White Supremacist Richard Spencer that founded the Alt-Right) and Jeff Sessions (an advocate of the racist Immigration Act of 1924 that fundamentally closed the door on non-white/non-Protestant immigration to the United States) that both support Trump's racial and religious animus.
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:12 AM
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Default Re: Cities Sue Trump for Violating Constitution With Latest Effort to Upend Obamacare

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Do you think tRUmp understands that the individual insurance market is Obamacare, and that if it fails millions of people- not just libruls- won't be able to purchase health insurance? People will literally die because of his and the Republicans sabotage of the ACA.


and as an aside, I read this the other day......
His insurance premium didn't drop. If anything it probably increased. It's just that someone else picked up the tab.
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Old 09-05-2018, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: Cities Sue Trump for Violating Constitution With Latest Effort to Upend Obamacare

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
His insurance premium didn't drop. If anything it probably increased. It's just that someone else picked up the tab.
No doubt that I am paying for some of it, my insurance always goes up. I pay just under 2k per month for me and my wife, both healthy.

It seems like the more money we make, the more are insurance goes up. If I didn't know better I would think they were connected.
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: Cities Sue Trump for Violating Constitution With Latest Effort to Upend Obamacare

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Where does the "right" come up with the "wrong" information.

Early in the Obama presidency he was known as the "Deporter-in-Chief" because of how much of an increase in deportation that were occurring when compared to President George W Bush.

Compare 2009, Obama's first year in office, when there were 390,000 deportations to 2017, Trump's first year in office, when there were only about 227,000 deportations. That's a 40% decline in deportations under President Trump.


The difference between Obama and Trump is the strategy between the two administrations.

Obama prioritized border enforcement based upon the law and our American values. Deportations focused new arrivals and those that represented a threat to the people or our nation. Showing compassion for those that have lived in the United States for decades, that grew up as Americans, that have a spouse and/or children that are US citizens, and trying to work with them to provide lawful immigration status under existing law. Obama provided a balanced approach based upon his authorized budget by Congress.

Trump's strategy is mass arrests of undocumented non-white/non-Protestant aliens, ignoring laws and preventing lawful immigration, and the use of coercion and fear as well as unconstitutional and immoral actions all based upon a White Nationalist (racist) agenda promoted by Steve Miller (a former fund raiser for Neo-Nazi White Supremacist Richard Spencer that founded the Alt-Right) and Jeff Sessions (an advocate of the racist Immigration Act of 1924 that fundamentally closed the door on non-white/non-Protestant immigration to the United States) that both support Trump's racial and religious animus.
As was pointed out earlier Obama inflated deportation figures by counting persons apprehended close to the border. Obviously you don't care about facts just partisan hyperbole.

In keeping with the penchant for propaganda so popular with the Left you abruptly switch to comparing the lower deportation numbers under Trump compared to Obama's. Of course you ignore the fact that fewer people attempted to cross the border illegally under Trump during the period.

Obama's policies included family separation, keeping children in cages, hosting a group of illegal aliens in the WH, reviving catch and release, turning the border patrol into a concierge service for unaccompanied minors and creating defacto amnesty for selected groups by executive decree. Truly Obama's policies reflect the profound disrespect for law as written so typical of Progressives.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: Cities Sue Trump for Violating Constitution With Latest Effort to Upend Obamacare

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
And did you think about why it never went anywhere? Flawed is flawed regardless of the political party involved.

Even without Trump's administration meddling with the PPACA, it was not, and never would be sustainable. There were maybe two, no, make that one thing that I believed was a positive in the PPACA, which could have been implemented with about 5 pages of legalese. It would have benefitted some, but they would also have been the ones to pay for it.
To claim the PPACA wasn't sustainable simply isn't true. The private insurance companies knew that it was sustainable once "insurance pool" reached a certain point of all Americans. The pool had to cover the healthy and the sick but, as anticipated, the sick were the first to sign up. The private insurance companies were so sure that they were willing to lose tens or hundreds of millions of dollars as the size of the insurance pool expanded to cover a larger and larger percentage of the uninsured.

Yes, there were flaws and the Democrats tried to address those flaws but they lost the House when Republicans took control in January 2011. With the House in GOP control the flaws couldn't be fixed because the GOP wanted to do everything possible to make Obamacare fail. The flaws were minor and fixable.

At the same time one component of Obamacare came within 10% of being perfect and that was the expansion of Medicaid. Medicaid, when created, was to provide healthcare to households that simply couldn't afford to fund healthcare or insurance costs. It was partially successful for decades by covering the lowest income groups but it never fulfilled it's original mission statement because it never covered all of those that couldn't afford any healthcare expenditures. Medicaid didn't originally succeed because "penny-pinching" politicians at both the state and federal level that refused to fully fund the costs to provide for all of those that couldn't afford to pay for medical services. Obamacare fixed that and even provided the funding from the correct source. It imposed a very small tax on the wealthy top 1% of income household so that it didn't increase taxes on working Americans. It came within 10% of being right because of the eventual obligation for the states to fund 10% of the costs which, by a Supreme Court decision, allowed states to opt out of the expansion. Had there been no future obligation for state funding then all of the states would have been required to expand Medicaid. In those states that did voluntarily expand Medicaid, both controlled by Democrats and Republicans, it's been an unqualified success.

Ironically for many is that I don't believe Obamacare was the best solution but it was far better than what we had when an estimated 45,000 people a year were dying because of a lack of insurance that would provide them with primary care.

Republicans for years touted "repeal and replace" but the replacement had to be better than what was being repealed. The Republicans never had any plan that was superior to Obamacare and that would have provided health care to more Americans than Obamacare. Democrats, including Obama, openly welcomed any Republican proposal that would have been superior in providing health insurance/health care to more Americans and at a lower cost if possible, than Obamacare. The GOP didn't have that proposal.
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Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
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