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ObamaCare Discuss The Democrats and incrementalism at the General Forum; Originally Posted by GetAClue I would prefer that the government gets out of my healthcare, the sooner the better. There ...

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Old 10-19-2017, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: The Democrats and incrementalism

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
I would prefer that the government gets out of my healthcare, the sooner the better. There is no constitutional requirement for government to have anything to do with private sector healthcare and there is no good reason for them government to insert themselves into it. The last thing we need is some DC bureaucrat deciding what treatments or medicine I am allowed to have.
I quite agree with you--on principle, anyway.

Regrettably, the country has been moved considerably to the left on this one matter, since 2010. So I seriously doubt that we will ever return to the status quo ante.
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Old 10-19-2017, 04:00 PM
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I quite agree with you--on principle, anyway.

Regrettably, the country has been moved considerably to the left on this one matter, since 2010. So I seriously doubt that we will ever return to the status quo ante.
I don't know. I have seen signs that people are beginning to see through the crap that was spewed by the left and seeing that the ACA was nothing but a government intrusion into the HC system. I am holding out hope that more people wise up and realize that the people that can't run the DMV efficiently, have no business in our HC system.
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Old 10-19-2017, 04:15 PM
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Yes, of course, that is why Trump overturned it on day one.
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I don't know. I have seen signs that people are beginning to see through the crap that was spewed by the left and seeing that the ACA was nothing but a government intrusion into the HC system. I am holding out hope that more people wise up and realize that the people that can't run the DMV efficiently, have no business in our HC system.
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Old 10-20-2017, 06:35 AM
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Yes, of course, that is why Trump overturned it on day one.
You do realize that as President, he cannot simply pass law on his own? Or were you under the impression that because Obama stated that he had "a phone and a pen" implying that he would go it alone, that is how it is supposed to be done?

Once again, I am not a Trump fan and never was. But I can agree with a lot of what he has done to this point. But you keep throwing Trump out there as some sort of gotcha post being as that is all that you seem to have.
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Old 10-20-2017, 06:49 AM
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Default Re: The Democrats and incrementalism

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
I don't know. I have seen signs that people are beginning to see through the crap that was spewed by the left and seeing that the ACA was nothing but a government intrusion into the HC system. I am holding out hope that more people wise up and realize that the people that can't run the DMV efficiently, have no business in our HC system.
Love this post!

The ACA is as SCOTUS declared it to be a TAX... Other wise it is in fact unconstitutional. Few seem to remember this fact.

The ACA also goes way beyond health care in it's scope as well. Some of it actually has nothing to do with health care at all. This is a very good reason to kill it were it stands, and bury the remains quickly. The stench is horrible..

This turd is the blue print for defeat of Democrats. But of course they fail to see it that way. The ACA act went way to far, way to fast. It has so many parts and pieces few actually understand the scope of this monumental blunder. Anton Scalia I believe may have been killed because of his critical attitude to the ACA act. I also believe the DNC or Democrats will and have committed murder to people who stand in the way of their agenda. There is very little I would ever put past the Democrats, as I believe the are criminal to the their very core of their leadership.

They keep proving me correct, as they get caught in their own lies.

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Old 10-20-2017, 07:09 AM
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I am not the one that said I would overturn it on day one. Tell Trump.
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You do realize that as President, he cannot simply pass law on his own? Or were you under the impression that because Obama stated that he had "a phone and a pen" implying that he would go it alone, that is how it is supposed to be done?

Once again, I am not a Trump fan and never was. But I can agree with a lot of what he has done to this point. But you keep throwing Trump out there as some sort of gotcha post being as that is all that you seem to have.
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:20 AM
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I am not the one that said I would overturn it on day one. Tell Trump.
When you attempt to hold Obama to his promises, then come talk to me. I don't recall seeing the "see levels receding" after his election.

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Old 10-20-2017, 08:36 AM
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Logic would dictate that a metric of any health care plan would be whether it actually provides health care. If it doesn't provide health care then it can't be called a health care plan. That's only one of many metrics but it's obviously an important metric.

There has always been an element that has advocated Universal Health Care (e.g. a single-payer system) but that hasn't been universally accepted by liberals and has been totally by virtually all conservatives. The liberals that are dedicated to UHC have been making a "full-court press" for that change going back as long as I can remember but they were a relatively small group of liberals.

What we have seen in recent years are that more liberals are joining their ranks but we need to understand that this was never "planned incrementalism" as claimed by many Republicans but instead has been a result of the politics of health care itself. To understand that we need to step back in political history that provides the basis for the increased support for UHC by liberals.

When elected former President Obama was dedicated to bringing unity between the Republicans and Democrats in Congress. As addressed by the documentary "VICE Special Report: A House Divided" the Republicans involved recalled the early days of the Obama Administration.

In addressing the deep recession, where jobs were still being lost and the economy tanking, the Republicans had advocated tax cuts for the wealthy as the means to recover from the financial crisis and opposed any spending measures. The Democrats, in control of both the Senate and the House eventually passed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 that was a combination of tax cuts and spending measures that, for most observers, was compromise legislation that covered the Republican tax cuts and the Democrats spending to provide temporary economic stimulus to the economy. The Republicans didn't see this as compromise and instead became angered over the "partisanship" of the Democrats and decided to retaliate.

It was in these very early days that the Republicans decided to do the one thing they knew they could accomplish. They knew that a primary goal of President Obama was to try and bring unity to Congress and they could prevent that from ever happening by the policy of "Oppose anything Obama" even though they didn't have the votes to prevent the Democrats agenda in 2009-2010.

When health care became the issue President Obama supported a compromise plan based upon prior Republican proposals that would provide insurance and health care to the tens of millions of uninsured. President Obama was highly respected and had significant influence with the Democrats proposals for health care and Obama pushed for the combination of private insurance, with employee and employer mandates, and the expansion of Medicaid that Republicans in Congress and conservative think tanks like the Heritage Foundation had advocated in the 1990's. President Obama was attempting to draw Republicans into the creation of the Healthcare Plan but the Republicans, having already adopted the "Oppose anything Obama" strategy, wanted nothing to do with any bipartisan legislation in Congress.

The Senate's PPACA eventually passed replacing the House Democrats proposal, the Affordable Health Care for America Act (or HR 3962) that included a public option that would have provided insurance to more of the uninsured, and that's what we have today (Obamacare).

But the Republican opposition wasn't over. Republican states refused to embrace the "Republican" ideology of state control and refused to create their own insurance market places. Republicans in Congress, after securing the majority control of the House, refused to provide any legislative fixes to relatively minor problems with Obamacare. The Republicans began a concerted effort to do anything possible to make Obamacare fail and refused to do anything whatsoever the make Obamacare succeed.

For seven years they passed repeal efforts promising a replacement for Obamacare but never creating a replacement for Obamacare and all the while they were trying to ensure it's failure at every possible turn of events.

And their obstructionism took it's toll. Refusal of Republican states to set up their own insurance exchanges caused mass chaos when the federal government was forced to deal with each of those states requirements for rollout in 2013 and the federal government basically had only one year to accomplish what the states should have done over a three year period (with federal funding). The Treasury Department hadn't been able to come up with the compliance forms necessary for the Employer Mandate so the penalties had to be waived for 2014. Republicans sued to block the payments to insurance companies where the law stated those reimbursements were for the State exchanges and not the Federal exchanges... and the Republicans won the lawsuit.

The intentional sabotage of Obamacare reduced the sign-ups necessary for the program to break even causing more expenses to the federal government.

What did work, and that both Republican governors and Democratic governors agreed upon, was the expansion of Medicaid. It was an unqualified success by every state that adopted the expansion.

So while Obamacare's success was delayed by the Republican obstructionism and sabotage the fact remained that Obamacare was still succeeding but at a much slower rate than if the Republicans had supported it.....

And an important fact that even Republicans acknowledged was that if the Democrats would have passed a Single-Payer System there would have been none of the problems related to Obamacare would have existed and 100% of Americans would have had health insurance.

The fact that even Republicans, that are opposed to Obamacare and a single-payer system, admitted that if the Democrats would have passed a single-payer system the Republicans would not have had any foundation, other than cost, to oppose it.

Many liberals picked up on the fact that Republicans couldn't corrupt a single-payer system while Republicans had been very successful in driving up insurance premiums costs and reducing the enrollment necessary for Obamacare to succeed.

Many liberals began to embrace the single-payer system because of the obstructionism by Republicans of Obamacare. It's been that change in advocacy that's made UHC and single-payer system evolved to the front end of the health care debate.

There was never a planned liberal agenda to incrementally transition from Obamacare to UHC. This evolution in political advocacy has been driven the response the anti-Obamacare Republican agenda that can still force Obamacare to fail. If Republicans actually make Obamacare fail, resulting in the loss of health insurance, then we can predict that even more liberals will join the UHC initiative.

The political tables will eventually turn and if Republicans are successful in destroying Obamacare then the Democrats in the future aren't going to try and resurrect Obamacare. They'll go straight to a single-payer UHC proposal.

IF Republicans want to avoid a single-payer system then they'd be well advised to ensure that Obamacare succeeds because if it's not then single-payer is what will eventually replace Obamacare and Republicans will only have themselves to blame.
Obama hated dealing with Congress from the beginning, dismissing Republican leaders from stimulus negotiations by proclaiming "I won". Taking a cue from the imperial President Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi shut out Republicans from Obamacare drafting. Even hard core UHC advocates like Dennis Kucinich had to be coerced into line.

Simple arithmetic dispells the blame Republicans blather in the comment. Democrats passed Obamacare on a straight party line vote. They were unable to muster enough support within the Democrat caucus for UNC. The notion that the Republican minority blocked UNC is partisan nonsense just look at the numbers.

Incrementalism to complete the transformation of Obamacare into UNC is exactly the Democrat strategy. Obamacare needs to be propped up by lavishing more subsidies to offset the bloated premiums and deductibles along with reviving UNC in waiting, the so-called public option promising everything but delivering all the care Federal bureaucrats ration out to you.
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Old 10-20-2017, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: The Democrats and incrementalism

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
I don't know. I have seen signs that people are beginning to see through the crap that was spewed by the left and seeing that the ACA was nothing but a government intrusion into the HC system. I am holding out hope that more people wise up and realize that the people that can't run the DMV efficiently, have no business in our HC system.
Try since the 1940's. ACA is a continuation of government interference in healthcare. It has been ongoing since FDR.
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Old 10-23-2017, 09:22 AM
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Try since the 1940's. ACA is a continuation of government interference in healthcare. It has been ongoing since FDR.
Oh, I agree. That is why in an earlier thread I stated that I wanted government completely out of my healthcare, not just a repeal of the ACA, but completely out.
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