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ObamaCare Discuss What is the true source of rights? at the General Forum; Originally Posted by FrancSevin The U.S. Constitution guarantees only what some have described as "negative" rights--i.e. the right to be ...

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Old 09-15-2017, 10:31 AM
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Default Re: What is the true source of rights?

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
The U.S. Constitution guarantees only what some have described as "negative" rights--i.e. the right to be free of some things. It never speaks of any positive "rights."
"What ever?"

The concept of "negative rights" is the fundamental principle of the Document. All rights come from the people. It is what makes our form of government unique at the time of it's founding. Further it is what separates us, at least in theory, from most other governments even today.
Perhaps if you point out to the King of the Ignore List that no less a Constitutional scholar than Barak Obama endorsed the idea of the Constitution being a collection of negative rights it might prove persuasive.

Keep in mind that the incantation of "The People" by Leftists doesn't mean a Constitutional amendment. It's public opinion polls or as we see today violent street mobs.
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Old 09-15-2017, 11:00 AM
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Default Re: What is the true source of rights?

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Perhaps if you point out to the King of the Ignore List that no less a Constitutional scholar than Barak Obama endorsed the idea of the Constitution being a collection of negative rights it might prove persuasive.

Keep in mind that the incantation of "The People" by Leftists doesn't mean a Constitutional amendment. It's public opinion polls or as we see today violent street mobs.
The King of Ignore dreams up his realities whilst sitting on the john and dangling his feet.. I would assume he considers quoting Barak Obama in this context to be racist calumny.

He is but a little man on a Forum.

The King we should worry about is the one who, via overwhelming popular support, considered it within his power to install positive rights in violation of the Constitution of which he is a self acclaimed scholar.

He still resides in Washington and still exercises influence despite having finished his term of office.
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Old 09-15-2017, 12:12 PM
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Default Re: What is the true source of rights?

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
The left is now claiming that healthcare--free healthcare--is a fundamental "right." (Unsurprisingly, Sen. Elizabeth Warren--an ultra-liberal--just proclaimed this.)

But whether or not one believes that UHC is a good idea, to say that free healthcare is a "right" begs the question: Just what entity, exactly, decides upon (and dispenses) rights?

The left claims that government does. And it will gleefully point to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, as cases in point.

But these are entitlements (which are of dubious constitutionality, in my view)--certainly not "rights."

The Declaration of Independence speaks of the "Creator" and "Nature's God." I can imagine no other source of genuine rights.

Note: The U.S. Constitution guarantees only what some have described as "negative" rights--i.e. the right to be free of some things. It never speaks of any positive "rights."
My POV, 2 cents that it's worth.

Human rights, those we are innately born with, are not 'granted' by another entity. The laws written by government don't 'grant' those rights, they protect those rights.

Our Constitution does have 'negative' rights, also to protect the innate rights.
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: What is the true source of rights?

OK so you want the right of free speech to be a negative right. Whatever. What does this have to do with what the threads asks?
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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
The King of Ignore dreams up his realities whilst sitting on the john and dangling his feet.. I would assume he considers quoting Barak Obama in this context to be racist calumny.

He is but a little man on a Forum.

The King we should worry about is the one who, via overwhelming popular support, considered it within his power to install positive rights in violation of the Constitution of which he is a self acclaimed scholar.

He still resides in Washington and still exercises influence despite having finished his term of office.
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:04 PM
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Default Re: What is the true source of rights?

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
My POV, 2 cents that it's worth.

Human rights, those we are innately born with, are not 'granted' by another entity. The laws written by government don't 'grant' those rights, they protect those rights.

Our Constitution does have 'negative' rights, also to protect the innate rights.
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: What is the true source of rights?

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OK so you want the right of free speech to be a negative right. Whatever. What does this have to do with what the threads asks?
I never said that. It's not about what I want.
And it sure as hell isn't about want you want or believe.
But, for the record, the Founders determined free speech was a basic right of birth. So it is a negative right.


Negative rights are about human rights that do not cost the rights of others. Positive rights require the expense of money and or freedoms so they can be given back by the government. They are essentially redistributive. How does free speech fall into that category?

Do you believe citizens need the Government's permission to speak?

Perhaps you are confused about negative rights versus positive rights. They are similar but not exactly the same. And the question of the thread topic is "What is the true source of rights? " I presume that refers to rights of birth and rights given by the government. Supposedly, our government has no rights to give away WE THE PEOPLE haven't given them.
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Old 09-15-2017, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: What is the true source of rights?

You didn't read a thing I wrote and it always amazes me how the right goes after "The Guvmint" I never said that. It's not about what I want. You ask, " Do you believe citizens need the Government's permission to speak?". I said in the U.S. we are the government. We the people have agreed that you have a right to free speech. Maybe the government would be more respondent if we remembered and acted to the fact that THEY WORK FOR US.
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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post



And it sure as hell isn't about want you want or believe.
But, for the record, the Founders determined free speech was a basic right of birth. So it is a negative right.


Negative rights are about human rights that do not cost the rights of others. Positive rights require the expense of money and or freedoms so they can be given back by the government. They are essentially redistributive. How does free speech fall into that category?

Do you believe citizens need the Government's permission to speak?

Perhaps you are confused about negative rights versus positive rights. They are similar but not exactly the same. And the question of the thread topic is "What is the true source of rights? " I presume that refers to rights of birth and rights given by the government. Supposedly, our government has no rights to give away WE THE PEOPLE haven't given them.
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Old 09-15-2017, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: What is the true source of rights?

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
You didn't read a thing I wrote and it always amazes me how the right goes after "The Guvmint" I never said that. It's not about what I want. You ask, " Do you believe citizens need the Government's permission to speak?". I said in the U.S. we are the government. We the people have agreed that you have a right to free speech. Maybe the government would be more respondent if we remembered and acted to the fact that THEY WORK FOR US.
I responded to your statement.
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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
OK so you want the right of free speech to be a negative right. Whatever. What does this have to do with what the threads asks?
As for the mishmash of your post, at least in the context of the source of rights, I cannot even make out what you are saying.
You asked me if I wanted to make free speech a negative right...; Do you even know what negative rights are?

If you did you would know I cannot make anything a negative right any more than I can make a circle a square. They simply are what they are. And the right of free speech simply is unless I surrender it to my government. It's not a question of who works for whom. It is a question of where the power of personal choice, ie individual freedom if you will, resides.

For example, progressive want everyone to have a job as a "right." However that job is provided by the government, it is a Positive Right. Conservatives, OTOH, want everyone to have equal and unfettered access to pursue what ever occupation they wish to achieve. That is a negative right of employment. If the government tells you you're allowed to have a certain job, that is not freedom. And if they tell you when, and where, and what, you can speak about freely, not only is that not free speech it becomes a positive right given at the pleasure of the government.

You rather recklessly exercise your freedom of speech here on the Forum. From where, what source, do you think that right comes?
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: What is the true source of rights?

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Originally Posted by 762nato View Post
It is interesting to note that The Bill of Rights defines what the government cannot do.
That is why some refer to these as "negative" rights.

But I certainly do not mean that pejoratively.
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: What is the true source of rights?

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762nato;907719]This is why the left wages war on Christianity and Judaism. If there is no God then rights are dispensed and defined by the government as is the case of the two primary instances of leftist government: communism and fascism.
WTF? does this mean? The left wages war on Christianity and Judaism? Religion has squat to do with your rights.
Quote:
It is interesting to note that The Bill of Rights defines what the government cannot do. Every one of those first ten amendments is something the left would love to destroy. This way they can make the leftist governmental elite the dispenser of rights .
I don't even know where to begin tearing into this nonsense.
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