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ObamaCare Discuss As Trump Threatens Obamacare, Bipartisan Group of House Members Plots a Fix at the General Forum; Originally Posted by AZRWinger Obamacare is a con game to make A pay for B's health insurance. As senior consultant ...

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Old 08-04-2017, 09:31 AM
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Default Re: As Trump Threatens Obamacare, Bipartisan Group of House Members Plots a Fix

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Obamacare is a con game to make A pay for B's health insurance. As senior consultant Jonathan Gruber bragged about the Cadillac tax the American people are too stupid to realize Obamacare makes them pay for sick people.
This is one of the most ignorant of right-wing talking points. Insurance creates a pool of insured individuals where those that don't use the insurance benefits fund the expenditures of those that require the insurance benefits. So yes, "A" pays for "B's" medical needs because it's an insurance pool.

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The CSR doesn't directly make us pay for other people's bills. It uses tax dollars to insulate insurers from the incompetence of Federal meddling in the insurance market. It is necessary because Obamacare regulation is toxic to insurers by design.
Another ignorant right-wing talking point. The CSR provided temporary funding to the insurance companies while the insurance pool was being created. This was a short term re-imbursement that allowed the insurance companies to provide the anticipated insurance premiums based upon the future insurance pool that would include both those that required benefits as well as those that didn't require benefits.

The CSR was the "low cost" alternative to having the insurance companies establish much higher rates where the federal subsidies would have been significantly higher. As noted for 2017 the CSR was anticipated to be about $7 billion and without the CSR the increased funding of subsidies based upon higher premiums would have been over $9 billion. The CSR's reduced federal spending.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:40 AM
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Default Re: As Trump Threatens Obamacare, Bipartisan Group of House Members Plots a Fix

Here's the answer in a nutshell.

Quote:
Congress needs to move on from repealing the Affordable Care Act, says Aetna (AET) CEO Mark Bertolini.

"The ACA cannot be repealed, period, end of sentence," Bertolini told CNBC's "Closing Bell" on Thursday.

"What we should do is fix it. So either everyone gets their heads together over in the Senate and the House and does the job that the American people needs them to do, and fix what we already have, or they should move on to something else," he said.

"It's really easy to fix this if they would just get over the politics of who is going to win the '18 election."

For Aetna to rejoin the Obamacare markets, Bertolini says, the system needs to become more stabilized.

"Any business that has the kind of changes this program has seen quarter over quarter, sometimes monthly, would not be able to sustain their business practices for any period of time," Bertolini said. "So when they get it right — which, it can be fixed, it very much can be fixed — and it's stable, we'll reconsider participation."
Aetna CEO: Obamacare 'cannot be repealed, period'

Obamacare it not failing but the Republicans have intentionally made it so unstable that no business can operate in that environment. The fixes are easy and fixing Obamacare is what the vast majority of Americans want.

It's time for the GOP to put the American people first and do what they were elected to do. Fix the problems with our laws and government as opposed to being the problem with our laws and government.
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Old 08-04-2017, 01:06 PM
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Default Re: As Trump Threatens Obamacare, Bipartisan Group of House Members Plots a Fix

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The "insurance pool" is what needs to be understood. It takes a lot of people not filing claims to cover the costs of those that file claims. I'm just making an educated guess but I would suggest that it would take about ten years of people obtaining health insurance through the exchanges before there would be enough people in the insurance pool to cover the costs of the early sign-ups, specifically those with pre-existing conditions, that did require high expenditures.
If we were just to get the federal government out of the healthcare insurance business altogether--remember, it was not in this business for the majority of this nation's history--it would obviate this problem completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
There's a more important factor to be considered IMHO. The Congress and the President are supposed to be trying to make our government work based upon the law and are not supposed to be trying to break it. The ACA included the CSR payment because it was an anticipated requirement to make Obamacare work. By refusing to fund the CSR the GOP is intentionally attempting to make Obamacare fail. One could argue that to intentionally attempt to make a federal law fail is a violation of the oath of office.
To make our "government" work is hardly identical to salvaging a Democrat bill (or attempting to do so, anyway).

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My personal belief differs from both the Democrats and the Republicans but it should also be noted that the link provides an invalid argument because it only addresses the opinion of the Federalists (Madison and Hamilton) and not the opinions of the Anti-Federalists that were just as instrumental in the creation of the United States.
Of all the Founders, Madison is my very favorite. (And Hamilton is not too far behind.)

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Because our nation is built upon commerce and health care is a result of commerce the people, all of which engage in commerce, have a "right to health care" and it's the State's responsibility to ensure that right.
Rube Goldberg, where are you when someone needs you?

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
It is interesting to me that based upon the delegation of powers and responsibilities between the federal government and the state government only Massachusetts came close to achieving that with Romneycare.
I find it rather interesting that you laud the leftmost state in America (well, together with Vermont), and use it as a template for just what America as a whole should be like...
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Old 08-04-2017, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: As Trump Threatens Obamacare, Bipartisan Group of House Members Plots a Fix

OH yea, before Obama it was inexpensive and available for all and the costs never went up.
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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
If we were just to get the federal government out of the healthcare insurance business altogether--remember, it was not in this business for the majority of this nation's history--it would obviate this problem completely.



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Old 08-04-2017, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: As Trump Threatens Obamacare, Bipartisan Group of House Members Plots a Fix

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If we were just to get the federal government out of the healthcare insurance business altogether--remember, it was not in this business for the majority of this nation's history--it would obviate this problem completely.
The problem is the inability of millions of Americans to obtain health care services they require so how exactly would getting the federal government "out of the insurance business" provide the necessary health care services to the millions of Americans that can't obtain those services?
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Old 08-04-2017, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: As Trump Threatens Obamacare, Bipartisan Group of House Members Plots a Fix

I don't understand why the right hates the idea of both sides finding a way to fix some of the issues with healthcare. I want single payer and I know I won't get it but I am willing to see if what they work out helps people. The right is never going to get what they want either. So why not be open to compromise? It's how our country operated since it's inception.
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Old 08-04-2017, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: As Trump Threatens Obamacare, Bipartisan Group of House Members Plots a Fix

Someday we will have single payer, we just have to try everything else first.
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I don't understand why the right hates the idea of both sides finding a way to fix some of the issues with healthcare. I want single payer and I know I won't get it but I am willing to see if what they work out helps people. The right is never going to get what they want either. So why not be open to compromise? It's how our country operated since it's inception.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: As Trump Threatens Obamacare, Bipartisan Group of House Members Plots a Fix

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Someday we will have single payer, we just have to try everything else first.
Attitudes mean a lot. We were first at this and what not! On the moon or what. Children don't care anymore about that agitprop. Nor should they in a free society.
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Old 08-04-2017, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: As Trump Threatens Obamacare, Bipartisan Group of House Members Plots a Fix

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Someday we will have single payer, we just have to try everything else first.
This makes a similar mistake to what Republicans make.

The best health care in America is funded by employer sponsored group health insurance. These group insurance policies typically cover health, vision, dental and prescription drug coverage and the insurance is accepted by virtually all medical providers.

In 2000 66% of working households had employer provided group health insurance but that dropped to 56% in 2010. Since 2010, with the passage of Obamacare, it's stabilized at the 56% coverage. Even today the statistics indicate that 72% of full time employees are covered by employer provided insurance while only 21% of part time (less than 30 hrs/wk) have this insurance.

A government single-payer system doesn't compare on any level to employer provided group health insurance. We couldn't expect it to cover dental or vision although it would probably cover prescription drugs. One thing we've learned from Medicare/Medicaid is that it typically "under-pays" for medical services and only hospitals, that receive huge government tax breaks and subsidies, provide medical services (because they have to by law to received the tax breaks/subsidies). Private clinics can't afford to treat Medicare/Medicaid patents because they lose money due to the under-payments.

We would not want a single-payer system to replace the employer provided group health insurance. That's a downgrade in medical services for the majority of working Americans.

Focus on what works best!

What we should be focused on is expanding employer provided group health insurance because it really is the best insurance there is.

This reminds me of the recent Trump complaints about Germany and the trade imbalance because there was an interesting fact. When it comes to manufacturing we have a trade deficit with Germany but when it comes to services we have a trade surplus with Germany. Instead of being focused on manufacturing where we benefit from importing from Germany but have a deficit we should be focused in increasing the services we provide to Germany where Germany benefits. The US economy has been service industry based for the last 100 years. The service industry produces the most wealth and creates the most jobs so we should focus on making it better.

When it comes to health care for working American households it's been employer provided group health insurance that's been the primary source and provided the best health care in all regards. We need to focus on making employer group health insurance more widespread and to cover more people because it's what we do best.

Obamacare is not the best solution to our health care problems but it's better than what we had. The expansion of Medicaid has been universally accepted by both Republican and Democratic governors as being a great improvement. The insurance exchanges have had problems (starting with those states that refused to set up their own exchanges and dumping that responsibility on the federal government). Today the primary problem is that it will take about a decade for the insurance pools to expand to reach the balance between low cost healthy participants to offset the high cost participants and until then the CSR payments are required. If funded at the 80% of losses rate, as was originally built into Obamacare, the insurance rates would come down reducing the cost of the government subsidies for individual insurance policies.

But there's one final important point.

To reduce the number of people using the exchanges that require government subsidies we need to go back to the previous point and work to expand employer provided group health insurance. This places the health care of America's working households where it belongs. In the hands of the employers that profit from the labor of their employees in America.

Single-payer may become a necessity but that's only if we don't address what we do best. Single-payer is not the best choice but it may be the only choice if we fail to address the health care problem by doing what works best.
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Old 08-05-2017, 05:07 AM
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Default Re: As Trump Threatens Obamacare, Bipartisan Group of House Members Plots a Fix

Employer provider healthcare is still in the US healthcare system. If you really want to look at it like that instead of a large group of employees, we need to have the largest group possible one giant group of American Citizens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
This makes a similar mistake to what Republicans make.

The best health care in America is funded by employer sponsored group health insurance. These group insurance policies typically cover health, vision, dental and prescription drug coverage and the insurance is accepted by virtually all medical providers.

In 2000 66% of working households had employer provided group health insurance but that dropped to 56% in 2010. Since 2010, with the passage of Obamacare, it's stabilized at the 56% coverage. Even today the statistics indicate that 72% of full time employees are covered by employer provided insurance while only 21% of part time (less than 30 hrs/wk) have this insurance.

A government single-payer system doesn't compare on any level to employer provided group health insurance. We couldn't expect it to cover dental or vision although it would probably cover prescription drugs. One thing we've learned from Medicare/Medicaid is that it typically "under-pays" for medical services and only hospitals, that receive huge government tax breaks and subsidies, provide medical services (because they have to by law to received the tax breaks/subsidies). Private clinics can't afford to treat Medicare/Medicaid patents because they lose money due to the under-payments.

We would not want a single-payer system to replace the employer provided group health insurance. That's a downgrade in medical services for the majority of working Americans.

Focus on what works best!

What we should be focused on is expanding employer provided group health insurance because it really is the best insurance there is.

This reminds me of the recent Trump complaints about Germany and the trade imbalance because there was an interesting fact. When it comes to manufacturing we have a trade deficit with Germany but when it comes to services we have a trade surplus with Germany. Instead of being focused on manufacturing where we benefit from importing from Germany but have a deficit we should be focused in increasing the services we provide to Germany where Germany benefits. The US economy has been service industry based for the last 100 years. The service industry produces the most wealth and creates the most jobs so we should focus on making it better.

When it comes to health care for working American households it's been employer provided group health insurance that's been the primary source and provided the best health care in all regards. We need to focus on making employer group health insurance more widespread and to cover more people because it's what we do best.

Obamacare is not the best solution to our health care problems but it's better than what we had. The expansion of Medicaid has been universally accepted by both Republican and Democratic governors as being a great improvement. The insurance exchanges have had problems (starting with those states that refused to set up their own exchanges and dumping that responsibility on the federal government). Today the primary problem is that it will take about a decade for the insurance pools to expand to reach the balance between low cost healthy participants to offset the high cost participants and until then the CSR payments are required. If funded at the 80% of losses rate, as was originally built into Obamacare, the insurance rates would come down reducing the cost of the government subsidies for individual insurance policies.

But there's one final important point.

To reduce the number of people using the exchanges that require government subsidies we need to go back to the previous point and work to expand employer provided group health insurance. This places the health care of America's working households where it belongs. In the hands of the employers that profit from the labor of their employees in America.

Single-payer may become a necessity but that's only if we don't address what we do best. Single-payer is not the best choice but it may be the only choice if we fail to address the health care problem by doing what works best.
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