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ObamaCare Discuss Repeal Obamacare, No Hurry by congress. But it will still fail. at the General Forum; Originally Posted by jimbo Not what should, not what if. After 8 years of this Democrats disaster, the question remains, ...

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Old 03-14-2017, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: Repeal Obamacare, No Hurry by congress. But it will still fail.

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
Not what should, not what if.

After 8 years of this Democrats disaster, the question remains, what is the Democrats fix for Obamacare?
Once again the definition of disaster seems to be flawed. With 20 million people obtaining insurance that didn't have it before, and with the prospect of Republican "repeal/replace" with of tens of millions of Americans losing or not being able to obtain insurance either due to a lack of affordability and/or a lack of choice where the insurance doesn't provide value, it's hard to claim that it's a disaster. Expensive would be good description, complex would be a good description, "teething pains" would also be a good description, but not a disaster.

The Democrats have a lot of proposed "fixes" for Obamacare and have stepped up to the plate by informing Republicans that they would love to work with Republicans to implement fixes to make Obamacare more cost effective, revise the tax structure to eliminate problems with funding, make it more user friendly, and more effective in providing health care services to more Americans. Bernie Sanders and Nancy Pelosi have both invited Republicans to work with them to fix Obamacare... but they're not going to help Republicans eliminate Obamacare.
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: Repeal Obamacare, No Hurry by congress. But it will still fail.

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Once again the definition of disaster seems to be flawed. With 20 million people obtaining insurance that didn't have it before, and with the prospect of Republican "repeal/replace" with of tens of millions of Americans losing or not being able to obtain insurance either due to a lack of affordability and/or a lack of choice where the insurance doesn't provide value, it's hard to claim that it's a disaster. Expensive would be good description, complex would be a good description, "teething pains" would also be a good description, but not a disaster.

The Democrats have a lot of proposed "fixes" for Obamacare and have stepped up to the plate by informing Republicans that they would love to work with Republicans to implement fixes to make Obamacare more cost effective, revise the tax structure to eliminate problems with funding, make it more user friendly, and more effective in providing health care services to more Americans. Bernie Sanders and Nancy Pelosi have both invited Republicans to work with them to fix Obamacare... but they're not going to help Republicans eliminate Obamacare.
Two paragraphs, no answer. What is the Democrat Plan. What are these proposed fixes? I haven't seen them. Democrats having ignored any and all Republican fixes for 8 years, now that they have lost badly they suddenly demand a bipartisan fix.

Show me the Democrat fix, the one written down on paper. Not the vague rhetoric. You can't. There isn't one.
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Repeal Obamacare, No Hurry by congress. But it will still fail.

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
Two paragraphs, no answer. What is the Democrat Plan. What are these proposed fixes? I haven't seen them. Democrats having ignored any and all Republican fixes for 8 years, now that they have lost badly they suddenly demand a bipartisan fix.

Show me the Democrat fix, the one written down on paper. Not the vague rhetoric. You can't. There isn't one.
Two different news stories from March 2014 that cover numerous proposals from Democrats on possible "fixes" to Obamacare. I don't believe any of the proposals made it out of the Republican controlled committees or even if they were referred to the committees.

Quote:
(Democratic Senators) called for allowing "copper" plans on the government-run health exchanges. The new insurance plans would offer lower premiums and higher out-of-pocket costs than the "bronze," "silver" and "gold" options currently offered.

The senators, while defending the law itself, proposed numerous other fixes, including restoring startup funds for "consumer-driven health insurance cooperatives" and directing state regulators to look at allowing insurance to be sold across state lines. Plus, they called for sparing employers with fewer than 100 workers from being required to offer health insurance to their staff.
Democrats push for new changes to ObamaCare amid midterm fears | Fox News

Quote:
Nine bills make up the "fix" package. Some of the highlights include:

Introducing a lower-cost health insurance plan, called a "copper" plan, which would cover 50 percent of medical costs. The cheapest plan currently available through Obamacare, called the "bronze" plan, covers 60 percent of costs.

Expanding the availability of small-business tax credits under the law to companies with fewer than 50 employees, rather than 25 employees.

Increasing the threshold for the employer mandate, requiring that only companies with 100 or more employees provide health coverage. The current threshold is more than 50.

Making permanent the option for people to enroll in Obamacare coverage directly through insurers and independent websites, in addition to the federal website HealthCare.gov.
Moderate Senate Democrats Propose Nine Obamacare Fixes

I know that there are also some tax provisions in Obamacare that both Democrats and Republicans would like to see gone. I'm not offering support for these proposals per se but just noting that they exist and I'm sure that in the last two years Democrats have identified other possible things that need to be addressed.

No legislation I'm aware of creating a new program has ever been without flaws that required revision. It's to be expected.

I'm not sure what Republican proposals are being referred to that attempted to fix identified problems with Obamacare. All I remember are 60+ attempts by the GOP House to repeal it. Perhaps you can provide me with some information I might have missed. It would be appreciated.

Post Script:
From the sidelines I'd suggest changing the expansion of Medicaid so that the federal government funds 100% of the expansion. Then the states couldn't refuse the expansion because they wouldn't have any future financial liability. Millions of American fell through the crack when the Supreme Court ruled that the expansion could only be voluntary because of the future financial liability of the states. These people don't have enough income to contribute to any insurance plan and would require a 100% federal subsidy to obtain private health insurance. The Supreme Court made the correct call and it was mistake for Obamacare to include future state funding requirements because that prevented the expansion in states based upon partisanship that left millions without any coverage to provide health care services.
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:04 AM
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Default Re: Repeal Obamacare, No Hurry by congress. But it will still fail.

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Two different news stories from March 2014 that cover numerous proposals from Democrats on possible "fixes" to Obamacare. I don't believe any of the proposals made it out of the Republican controlled committees or even if they were referred to the committees.


Democrats push for new changes to ObamaCare amid midterm fears | Fox News



Moderate Senate Democrats Propose Nine Obamacare Fixes

I know that there are also some tax provisions in Obamacare that both Democrats and Republicans would like to see gone. I'm not offering support for these proposals per se but just noting that they exist and I'm sure that in the last two years Democrats have identified other possible things that need to be addressed.

No legislation I'm aware of creating a new program has ever been without flaws that required revision. It's to be expected.

I'm not sure what Republican proposals are being referred to that attempted to fix identified problems with Obamacare. All I remember are 60+ attempts by the GOP House to repeal it. Perhaps you can provide me with some information I might have missed. It would be appreciated.

Post Script:
From the sidelines I'd suggest changing the expansion of Medicaid so that the federal government funds 100% of the expansion. Then the states couldn't refuse the expansion because they wouldn't have any future financial liability. Millions of American fell through the crack when the Supreme Court ruled that the expansion could only be voluntary because of the future financial liability of the states. These people don't have enough income to contribute to any insurance plan and would require a 100% federal subsidy to obtain private health insurance. The Supreme Court made the correct call and it was mistake for Obamacare to include future state funding requirements because that prevented the expansion in states based upon partisanship that left millions without any coverage to provide health care services.
Quote:
Nine bills make up the "fix" package. Some of the highlights include:
•Introducing a lower-cost health insurance plan, called a "copper" plan, which would cover 50 percent of medical costs. The cheapest plan currently available through Obamacare, called the "bronze" plan, covers 60 percent of costs.
•Expanding the availability of small-business tax credits under the law to companies with fewer than 50 employees, rather than 25 employees.
•Increasing the threshold for the employer mandate, requiring that only companies with 100 or more employees provide health coverage. The current threshold is more than 50.
•Making permanent the option for people to enroll in Obamacare coverage directly through insurers and independent websites, in addition to the federal website HealthCare.gov.
So, lets go item by item, ignoring that the 'list' is from 2014 (and since it's the call from the left that the GOP did 'nothing' for 6 years, and this was the Democrats boondoggle to fix)......

Introducing a lower level plan... would benefit how? More subsidies to cover? If some can't afford the 'bronze' plan, which leaves them with a 40% payment, why would they be able to afford a plan that leaves them with a 50% payment of expenses?

Small business may need additional credits up to 100 employees, but what consideration has been given to any other range of businesses... let's say it simple. None.

About the only one I can agree with.

The whole game of the PPACA was to put the burden of insurance on employers... cost and administration. After all, all companies are evil, and they exist solely to provide people with jobs, health insurance, and other paid benefits. After all, why should people have to be responsible for themselves?

Perhaps the consideration line should be the TYPE of employee, not the QUANTITY of employees.
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: Repeal Obamacare, No Hurry by congress. But it will still fail.

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
So, lets go item by item, ignoring that the 'list' is from 2014 (and since it's the call from the left that the GOP did 'nothing' for 6 years, and this was the Democrats boondoggle to fix)......

Introducing a lower level plan... would benefit how? More subsidies to cover? If some can't afford the 'bronze' plan, which leaves them with a 40% payment, why would they be able to afford a plan that leaves them with a 50% payment of expenses?

Small business may need additional credits up to 100 employees, but what consideration has been given to any other range of businesses... let's say it simple. None.

About the only one I can agree with.

The whole game of the PPACA was to put the burden of insurance on employers... cost and administration. After all, all companies are evil, and they exist solely to provide people with jobs, health insurance, and other paid benefits. After all, why should people have to be responsible for themselves?

Perhaps the consideration line should be the TYPE of employee, not the QUANTITY of employees.
This proposed fix is typical liberal logic. If a plan fails because those it was intended to help can't afford the premium or deductible. Lets call it plan Bronze, then the obvious answer is to introduce a new plan, Plan copper, that increases the deductible. That'll fix it.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: Repeal Obamacare, No Hurry by congress. But it will still fail.

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
This proposed fix is typical liberal logic. If a plan fails because those it was intended to help can't afford the premium or deductible. Lets call it plan Bronze, then the obvious answer is to introduce a new plan, Plan copper, that increases the deductible. That'll fix it.
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Old 04-09-2017, 11:19 PM
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Default Re: Repeal Obamacare, No Hurry by congress. But it will still fail.

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Last month's failed attempt to repeal and replace Obamacare had nothing to do with the welfare of the American people, and everything to do with the power struggle between political factions in Washington.
But out of the shambles of that failed effort may come a reform that actually does provide affordable universal health care: a national single-payer system, aka Medicare for all.

Both ends of the political spectrum -- the far left under Bernie Sanders and, improbable as it may seem, the far right under the likes of Richard Spencer -- are pushing single-payer not only as the solution to guaranteeing humane health care but as a self-regulating system to rein in spiraling costs.
https://www.morningstar.com/news/mar...upporters.html

Many predicted that if Obamacare fails that it will eventually be replaced by a single-payer system because that's the only real alternative.
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