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ObamaCare Discuss Healthcare rationing under ObamaCare at the General Forum; Originally Posted by pjohns I think it is fair to conclude that the supporters of ObamaCare believe that the money ...

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Old 02-15-2015, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: Healthcare rationing under ObamaCare

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I think it is fair to conclude that the supporters of ObamaCare believe that the money available for healthcare is finite; and that its redistribution--less money spent on end-of-life procedures, so that more money may be spent on preventive care, earlier in life--is likely to result in a slightly longer lifespan, on average.

For sake of discussion, let us assume that the premise is correct--that it is indisputably true that a redistribution of healthcare dollars, in this manner, will surely result in a greater average lifespan for Americans--and then ask the really hard question, viz.: Does this mean that, on balance, this redistribution of healthcare dollars is a morally good and justifiable thing?

In the end, it is really the only question (concerning ObamaCare) that especially matters...
hows your weather, pjohns? I see you are awake. good I just woke up from a late nap (actually I fell asleep in my chair )

When you say "ObamaCAre" are you talking about the over all Affordable care act or just the indigent health care?
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:33 AM
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Default Re: Healthcare rationing under ObamaCare

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hows your weather, pjohns?
It is cold here--and snow is expected soon. Still, cities farther north--e.g. Chicago, New York, and Boston, among others--are much colder, still.

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:When you say "ObamaCAre" are you talking about the over all Affordable care act or just the indigent health care?
I have never heard the term, ObamaCare, used in reference to "indigent health care," specifically.

Ordinarily, I prefer to use the precisely correct term. However, I will make an exception whenever that term is both highly tendentious and very misleading. (There is nothing especially "affordable" about ObamaCare, as far as I can see; especially after deductibles and coinsurance.)
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Old 02-15-2015, 02:45 AM
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Default Re: Healthcare rationing under ObamaCare

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(There is nothing especially "affordable" about ObamaCare, as far as I can see; especially after deductibles and coinsurance.)
Okay could you please describe these in detail?
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Damn shame it couldn't have been a father / son event. IMHO.
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:46 AM
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Default Re: Healthcare rationing under ObamaCare

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Okay could you please describe these in detail?
The least expensive Obamacare plan on average has a $5,000 deductible that must be met before the policy pays 60% of allowed medical expenses. Let's say the struggling in the Obama economy middle class family pays only $200 a month in premium thanks to subsidies. That brings the annual bill to a potential $7,400 plus 40% of expenses. Does that sound affordable? Not to a reasonable person, yet hyperpartisan zealots defend Obamacare as progress and cheer Democrat obstructionism blocking reform.

I did not go into the destructive impact of Obamacare subsidies or Cadillac tax redistribution in this comment but will do so later if needed.
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:55 AM
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Default Re: Healthcare rationing under ObamaCare

I have no problems with my insurance.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: Healthcare rationing under ObamaCare

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The least expensive Obamacare plan on average has a $5,000 deductible that must be met before the policy pays 60% of allowed medical expenses. Let's say the struggling in the Obama economy middle class family pays only $200 a month in premium thanks to subsidies. That brings the annual bill to a potential $7,400 plus 40% of expenses. Does that sound affordable? Not to a reasonable person, yet hyperpartisan zealots defend Obamacare as progress and cheer Democrat obstructionism blocking reform.

I did not go into the destructive impact of Obamacare subsidies or Cadillac tax redistribution in this comment but will do so later if needed.
Does a 125k ICD sound affordable? Yet I have one. In light of that 7400 is peanuts to me.
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Damn shame it couldn't have been a father / son event. IMHO.
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:56 PM
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Default Re: Healthcare rationing under ObamaCare

To return to the question I posed in an earlier post in this thread: Even if it were indisputably true that the redistribution of healthcare dollars would lead to a slightly greater average lifespan for Americans--and that is, admittedly, a very big "if"--I would strongly oppose such a redistribution. That is for two major reasons, viz.:

(1) I really do not believe that the government should be in the business of choosing winners and losers; and that is precisely what it would amount to, if some were declared to be deserving of medical care, whereas others were not.

(2) I value the individual--I am certainly not a collectivist--so I am not nearly so concerned with the "averages" as I am with the fate of each individual Americanl.
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Old 02-15-2015, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: Healthcare rationing under ObamaCare

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Here is a bit from LiffeNews.com as concerning ObamaCare:



Here is the link to the entire article: Death Panels: New 29-Point Checklist Determines if Elderly Person May Die in 30 Days | LifeNews.com

Connect the dots.

Dot #1.One in Two Americans Has a Pre-Existing Condition.

Dot #2.A survey found that 36 percent of those who tried to purchase health insurance directly from an insurance company in the individual insurance market were turned down because of a Pre-Existing Condition prior to the implementation of BO care.

Dot #3
.The uninsured are not as healthy as those with health insurance.

Dot #4.The uninsured are at a higher risk for preventable hospitalizations due to serious health conditions.

Dot #5.According to a Harvard study I read, 45,000 annual deaths were associated with lack of health insurance.
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Old 02-15-2015, 04:15 PM
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Default Re: Healthcare rationing under ObamaCare

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
To return to the question I posed in an earlier post in this thread: Even if it were indisputably true that the redistribution of healthcare dollars would lead to a slightly greater average lifespan for Americans--and that is, admittedly, a very big "if"--I would strongly oppose such a redistribution. That is for two major reasons, viz.:

(1) I really do not believe that the government should be in the business of choosing winners and losers; and that is precisely what it would amount to, if some were declared to be deserving of medical care, whereas others were not.

(2) I value the individual--I am certainly not a collectivist--so I am not nearly so concerned with the "averages" as I am with the fate of each individual Americanl.
That is ideological numbskullery to the demise of health. And with out health there is little to no reason to live life
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Damn shame it couldn't have been a father / son event. IMHO.
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Old 02-15-2015, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Healthcare rationing under ObamaCare

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That is ideological numbskullery to the demise of health. And with out health there is little to no reason to live life
I am really not concerned with the health of Americans collectively. I am concerned exclusively with individuals' health.

If some individuals were denied medical care--effectively, if they were forced to die a month (or even a week) sooner--in order to have more healthcare dollars available to spend on younger people, so that their lives might be prolonged a bit through preventive care, I would strongly oppose that plan.

And that, irrespective of your labeling my views "ideological numbskullery"...
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