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ObamaCare Discuss Obamacare blocks patients paying for treatment at the General Forum; Like insurance companies and medicare already do. Wow. Wonder what's on T.V.......

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Old 03-09-2014, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: Yes, there WILL be rationing

Like insurance companies and medicare already do. Wow. Wonder what's on T.V....
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:42 AM
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Default Re: Yes, there WILL be rationing

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Like insurance companies and medicare already do.
I really do not know what sort of healthcare insurance you have. But mine pays toward any--yes, any--medical procedure that is widely accepted in the American medical community. In other words, it is not merely experimental. And there are no exceptions to that.

Why would I wish to have that replaced with healthcare rationing?
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: Yes, there WILL be rationing

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I really do not know what sort of healthcare insurance you have. But mine pays toward any--yes, any--medical procedure that is widely accepted in the American medical community. In other words, it is not merely experimental. And there are no exceptions to that.

Why would I wish to have that replaced with healthcare rationing?
So how much do you think your insurance company would pay towards a heart transplant?
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:52 AM
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Default Re: Obamacare blocks patients paying for treatment

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Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
World Nut Daily daily makes a lot accusations here but they don't reference anything to support their diatribe. Where are the references to these accusations? [Bold added]
Here is a bit more about it, in case you might be interested:

Quote:
The study finds, for example, that the “Independent Payment Advisory Board,” which starting next January is supposed to make “recommendations to slow the growth in national health expenditures,” will set “quality and efficiency” standards for hospitals and demand that doctors meet government minimums in order to contract with any qualified health insurance plan.

“Essentially, doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers can be told by Washington just what diagnostic tests and medical care are considered to meet ‘quality and efficiency’ standards. These standards will be enforced not just for health care paid for by federally funded programs like Medicare, but also for health care paid for by private citizens and by the health insurance they or their employers purchase,” the study explains.

“These standards are specifically designed to limit the funds that Americans may choose to spend on health care so that they cannot keep up with the rate of medical inflation. Treatment that a doctor and patient deem needed or advisable to save the patient’s life or preserve or improve the patient’s health, but which runs afoul of the imposed standards, can be denied, even if the patient is willing and able to pay for it,” the study warns.

The study says that means that Washington “bureaucrats” will set a national standard for care “that is designed to limit what private citizens are allowed to spend to save their own lives.”

“On its face, the law maintains that this limitation does not amount to ‘rationing.’ Indeed, the [law] states, ‘The proposal [by the IPAB] shall not include any recommendations to ration health care.’ … However, the law never actually defines what it means by the word ‘ration.’
Oh, for the record: Serious people, with serious arguments to advance, do not typically resort to distortions of a person's (or publication's) name. Attempts to inflame emotions in others, rather than to set forth rational arguments, is usually a sign of an intellectually untenable position...
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Old 03-09-2014, 03:05 AM
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Default Re: Obamacare blocks patients paying for treatment

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Here is a bit more about it, in case you might be interested:



Oh, for the record: Serious people, with serious arguments to advance, do not typically resort to distortions of a person's (or publication's) name. Attempts to inflame emotions in others, rather than to set forth rational arguments, is usually a sign of an intellectually untenable position...
World "news" Daily is not a reliable source.

For example:

Quote:
The study finds, for example, that the “Independent Payment Advisory Board,” which starting next January is supposed to make “recommendations to slow the growth in national health expenditures,” will set “quality and efficiency” standards for hospitals and demand that doctors meet government minimums in order to contract with any qualified health insurance plan.
re the IPAB rules:

Spending rate reductions will be established at: 0.5 percent in 2015; 1.0 percent in 2016; 1.25 percent in 2017; 1.5 percent in 2018 and beyond. If Congress fails to pass legislation by August 15 each year to achieve the required savings through other policy changes, the IPAB’s recommendations will automatically take effect. The IPAB is prohibited from submitting proposals that would ration care, increase revenues, change benefits, modify eligibility, increase Medicare beneficiary cost sharing (including Parts A and B premiums), or change the beneficiary premium percentage or low-income subsidies under Part D. Hospitals and hospice will not be subject to cost reductions proposed by the IPAB from 2015 through 2019. Clinical labs would be exempt for one year.

https://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/adv...ory-board.page
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: Obamacare blocks patients paying for treatment

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Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
Umm... no. No one has previously ever been prevented from using their own money to pay for medical care.
here's the crux of the matter:

Quote:
“Essentially, doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers can be told by Washington just what diagnostic tests and medical care are considered to meet

that's been happening since at least the late seventies.
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We’re seeing this on multiple fronts. The aforementioned failure to ramp up testing, and the ongoing failure to get needed testing equipment to desperate governors, is compounded by Trump’s insistence on claiming that no such testing failure exists — or ever has.
Jeremy Konyndyk, a senior fellow at the Center for Global Development
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: Obamacare blocks patients paying for treatment

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Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
Spending rate reductions will be established at: 0.5 percent in 2015; 1.0 percent in 2016; 1.25 percent in 2017; 1.5 percent in 2018 and beyond. If Congress fails to pass legislation by August 15 each year to achieve the required savings through other policy changes, the IPAB’s recommendations will automatically take effect. [Bold added]
Yes, herein lies the heart of the problem.

The most important issue as regarding medical care, in my opinion, is NOT the cost attendant thereunto; rather, it is the degree of excellence it achieves. Stare-of-the-art medical care is an absolute must, as I see it; there are simply no competing considerations that might diminish its importance.

And state-of-the-art medical care may be achieved only if there are no cost-containment pressures that intrude upon the process. (It is not that I am opposed to cost containment per se; but when that goal is fetishized, and allowed to become a competing value vis-a-vis medical excellence I have a very big problem with that.)
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Old 03-09-2014, 03:37 PM
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Default Re: Yes, there WILL be rationing

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I really do not know what sort of healthcare insurance you have. But mine pays toward any--yes, any--medical procedure that is widely accepted in the American medical community. In other words, it is not merely experimental. And there are no exceptions to that.

Why would I wish to have that replaced with healthcare rationing?
um...no your insurance will not pay if your doctor would like say an extra MRI than what is recommended. Many other tests the doctor would like are the same. Sometimes a drug that is not in their formulary. Your doc is probably pretty up on what he can prescribe and get paid for and what he cannot. Like my husband needed spiriva and Cigna would not pay so his doctor had to prescribe something not as good.
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We’re seeing this on multiple fronts. The aforementioned failure to ramp up testing, and the ongoing failure to get needed testing equipment to desperate governors, is compounded by Trump’s insistence on claiming that no such testing failure exists — or ever has.
Jeremy Konyndyk, a senior fellow at the Center for Global Development
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Old 03-09-2014, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: Yes, there WILL be rationing

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
um...no your insurance will not pay if your doctor would like say an extra MRI than what is recommended. Many other tests the doctor would like are the same. Sometimes a drug that is not in their formulary. Your doc is probably pretty up on what he can prescribe and get paid for and what he cannot. Like my husband needed spiriva and Cigna would not pay so his doctor had to prescribe something not as good.
Bull ****, My doctored had ordered three MRI's for me over a matter of a couple of months and not once did the insurance company deny the request. Just because you have crap for insurance doesn't mean every ones is like that.
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Old 03-09-2014, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Obamacare blocks patients paying for treatment

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
here's the crux of the matter:




that's been happening since at least the late seventies.
No, it hasn't. I have never heard of anyone being refused treatments they could pay for because the government said they shouldn't get them. Not ever.
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