The new wave of female firebrands striking fear into liberal America - Page 6

Sulayman · #51 (**permalink**) 11-20-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy

Strangly I don't recognize myself in your post. I must not be ideological enough to be in a party. Because I don't buy into any of these descriptions. I'm free I'm free

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but its not about you. Its about the people who lead you. You may not recognize yourself because of a lack of self-awareness or perhaps you do indeed fall between two stools. In any case you must acknowledge that there is only one democrat left in the democrat party, Ben Nelson, and as Obama and the progressives veer hard to the left his time grows short.

Sulayman · #52 (**permalink**) 11-20-2009, 10:05 PM

No, Reagan was a "New Right" Republican. He sprang fully formed from the forehead of Barry Goldwater. He certainly was not a progressive. He didn't want to use the power of the state to change Americans. He wasn't about change at all. The much vaunted Reagan Revolution attempted comparatively little compared to the efforts of the progressives and achieved less: big government remained intact, the right to abortion remained in place. Reagan never undertook an elaborate campaign to re-create American's identity along conservative lines. The Reagan Revolution was a revolution in name only.

You don't have to accept what I have written about progressivism but that the way it is taught in universities in this country. I won't argue with you about it.

Mikeyy · #53 (**permalink**) 11-20-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulayman

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but its not about you. Its about the people who lead you. You may not recognize yourself because of a lack of self-awareness or perhaps you do indeed fall between two stools. In any case you must acknowledge that there is only one democrat left in the democrat party, Ben Nelson, and as Obama and the progressives veer hard to the left his time grows short.

I am an American. I'm conglomeration of many views. Just like you.

Mikeyy · #54 (**permalink**) 11-20-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulayman

No, Reagan was a "New Right" Republican. He sprang fully formed from the forehead of Barry Goldwater. He certainly was not a progressive. He didn't want to use the power of the state to change Americans. He wasn't about change at all. The much vaunted Reagan Revolution attempted comparatively little compared to the efforts of the progressives and achieved less: big government remained intact, the right to abortion remained in place. Reagan never undertook an elaborate campaign to re-create American's identity along conservative lines. The Reagan Revolution was a revolution in name only.

You don't have to accept what I have written about progressivism but that the way it is taught in universities in this country. I won't argue with you about it.

I have to agree about the Reagan revolution. The interesting thing is that the right sees anything they want to see in Reagan.

saltwn · #55 (**permalink**) 11-20-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulayman

No, Reagan was a "New Right" Republican. He sprang fully formed from the forehead of Barry Goldwater. He certainly was not a progressive. He didn't want to use the power of the state to change Americans. He wasn't about change at all. The much vaunted Reagan Revolution attempted comparatively little compared to the efforts of the progressives and achieved less: big government remained intact, the right to abortion remained in place. Reagan never undertook an elaborate campaign to re-create American's identity along conservative lines. The Reagan Revolution was a revolution in name only.

After Reagan we all had a number added to our name. No one could work in this country without showing his social security card. That was a "sweeping" change. His amnesty to illegal immigrants was a first step in a long struggle we still have with us today. During his administration trade unions became all but extinct and remanded to the rust belt, and a few stragglers elsewhere. I would call that a "sweeping" change after society had evolved in another direction. I think it was Carter's reign that deregulated, so I guess he was progressive too as that was a huge societal/economical change.

Quote:

You don't have to accept what I have written about progressivism but that the way it is taught in universities in this country. I won't argue with you about it.

I have accepted your definition.

Sulayman · #56 (**permalink**) 11-20-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy

I have to agree about the Reagan revolution. The interesting thing is that the right sees anything they want to see in Reagan.

So does the left.

Sulayman · #57 (**permalink**) 11-20-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

After Reagan we all had a number added to our name. No one could work in this country without showing his social security card. That was a "sweeping" change. His amnesty to illegal immigrants was a first step in a long struggle we still have with us today. During his administration trade unions became all but extinct and remanded to the rust belt, and a few stragglers elsewhere. I would call that a "sweeping" change after society had evolved in another direction. I think it was Carter's reign that deregulated, so I guess he was progressive too as that was a huge societal/economical change.

Now, really. I got my social security number added to my name in 1955. Reagan was still shooting Death Valley Days.

The left fought Reagan over illegal immigration just as they fight today to keep the border open and the police off the backs of the illegals.

Trade unionism was in a steep decline before Reagan came to power. The reasons for the decline of unionism in the US are many and can't be placed at the feet of any one political party. It has more to do with the nature of the American social contract which grows out of the Preamble to the Constitution.

As you can see I have a hard time agreeing with you on these things.

Quote:

I have accepted your definition.

I'm not sure you have, Salty, with you placing Reagan in the progressive camp but in any case its not original to me, its not my defintion, its the academy's. I just learned it in books.

saltwn · #58 (**permalink**) 11-20-2009, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulayman

Now, really. I got my social security number added to my name in 1955. Reagan was still shooting Death Valley Days.

But when you were in jr high in 1955, you were not required, in fact you were prevented, the use of it for identification.

Quote:

The left fought Reagan over illegal immigration just as they fight today to keep the border open and the police off the backs of the illegals.

Trade unionism was in a steep decline before Reagan came to power. The reasons for the decline of unionism in the US are many and can't be placed at the feet of any one political party. It has more to do with the nature of the American social contract which grows out of the Preamble to the Constitution.

You disagree he was anti union. We will have to say there are different opinions on this and leave it at that.

Quote:

As you can see I have a hard time agreeing with you on these things.

I'm not sure you have, Salty, with you placing Reagan in the progressive camp but in any case its not original to me, its not my defintion, its the academy's. I just learned it in books.

By your definition, Regan was a progressive. That is not always a bad thing. Most assuredly, conservatives say they are proud of his social restructuring.

Sulayman · #59 (**permalink**) 11-21-2009, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

But when you were in jr high in 1955, you were not required, in fact you were prevented, the use of it for identification.

Massively irrelevant

Quote:

You disagree he was anti union. We will have to say there are different opinions on this and leave it at that.

You can't point to anything he did that was anti-union

Quote:

By your definition, Regan was a progressive. That is not always a bad thing. Most assuredly, conservatives say they are proud of his social restructuring.

No, he wasn't a progressive. Socially he didn't restructure anything. What can you point to that is progressive about him?

Xolo · #60 (**permalink**) 11-23-2009, 03:16 PM

http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/new...reply&p=102373

I absolutely can not agree with that definition of progressive. It sure wasn't taught at any college or university I went to!!!

Progressives try to put restrictions on corporations that monopolize or cause harm to to the majority of citizens for the benefit of the top 1% who own 98% of the wealth. It takes the collective power of the gov't $$ to even make an inch of progress.

Here is a University professor's comment on what Progressivism is today:

Quote:

Progressive Ideals: Rooted in American Values
Progressive Ideals: Rooted in American Values

By Peter Phillips, PhD

Director, Project Censored

Special to ShorewoodVillage.com

The term progressive is widely used by contemporary writers, politicians, and liberals, but an understanding of what makes up a progressive agenda is generally unknown.

Many people have a vague sense that progressives are left-of-center folks mostly concerned with societal fairness and governmental transparency. This notion is rooted in the Progressive movement that occurred in the US between 1900 and 1914. According to Richard Hofstadfer in his book The Progressive Movement, 100 years ago our grandparents and great grandparents faced the accumulated evils of political bosses, banking trusts, railroad greed/overcharging, unjust taxation, millionaire senators, yellow-dog journalism, and cities filled with pollution and tenements. A nationwide multi-party political movement of mostly middle class working people emerged that sought political reform, increased governmental regulation, city sanitation, and objective media. The movement was closely tied into women suffrage and the formation of the NAACP.

Progressives in the 21st century continue in this tradition of democracy building and open transparency of corporate and political power. Progressive values are rooted in the American traditions of equality, fairness, due process, and democratic decision making at the deepest level possible. Progressives recognize that institutional power, both public and private, has created inequalities of race, class and gender, and that democratic governmental regulation is needed to make necessary social justice corrections for humanity worldwide. Progressives believe in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Bill of Rights, open access to corporate and governmental information, democratic media and individual human freedom. Progressives believe that human freedom includes the freedom from hunger, homelessness, unemployment, environmental pollution, discrimination based on physical attributes and long imprisonment for non-violent crimes.

Progressives encourage socio-economic/political systems that maximize individual participation, self-actualization, loving interpersonal relationships and healthy environments.

Progressives are a diversified bunch, who come from all political parties with a full range of human characteristics.

More importantly, progressives seek personal life styles that reflect their core values. Simplicity is highly valued through a life of slower natural foods, sustainable consumption, efficient living spaces, and a daily consciousness of striving for human betterment through social action.

Social action based on progressive values is possible locally, regionally, nationally and internationally. It is action emerging from real internalized values that lead people to self-actualization and right livelihood. One step at a time can lead us to a progressive future.

Imagine a society with regionally sustainable economies, self-actualizing people, crimelessness, and general equality. Such a life is possible, not just for us but for the world.

_________________________________

Peter Phillips is a Professor of Sociology at Sonoma State University and Director of Project Censored a media research group at Project Censored - Media Democracy in Action.

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