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News & Current Events Discuss Police: Kansas abortion physician killed Controversial doctor was acquitted in March at the General Forum; I just posted the most recent update of the story in "News and Editorials" There were 209 reader comments to ...

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Old 06-08-2009, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: Police: Kansas abortion physician killed Controversial doctor was acquitted in Ma

I just posted the most recent update of the story in "News and Editorials"
There were 209 reader comments to this story so far. The largest number of any CJ news story I know of.

http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/new...html#post68742
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: Police: Kansas abortion physician killed Controversial doctor was acquitted in Ma

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Originally Posted by nursej007 View Post
The law doesn't include them.

I really don't see that as equivalent.
One of the things that comes up when a family is considering the removal of life support is the question:
"What would Amy/Billy/Father/etc. want?"

I haven't seen women considering abortion ask themselves:
"What would the baby want?"

The questions I posed in the first post weren't about convenience. Tragically, they were terribly and painfully inconvenient, but such situations really happen. If, God forbid, you or your loved one faced those situations personally, are you saying you prefer the government to make these decisions for YOU? The questions were:
  • Should your molested 11 or 12 year old daughter be forced to carry a baby to term, or do you think you, your family, and your minister should make that decision?
  • Would you or would you have your wife, daughter or sister to carry to full term a child conceived as a victim of rape or incest?
  • If you learn in the third trimester that your fetus is dead, should it be the government’s decision that you must carry it the weeks or months to divest itself or is that a decision you your family, and your physician should make?
  • Likewise, if you learn the fetus is incapable of surviving on its own after birth or can only be sustained with artificial support you cannot afford to provide, do you want that decision made by the government or painfully by yourself and your family and your clergyman?
  • Late term abortions are horrific – but could you or would you want your wife to carry a dead fetus or a fetus medical authorities have told you cannot survive once delivered? Can the government possibly know the emotional strength of a woman or her family to cope with the continuation of that pregnancy?
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: Police: Kansas abortion physician killed Controversial doctor was acquitted in Ma

Quote:
Originally Posted by nursej007 View Post
The law doesn't include them.

I really don't see that as equivalent.
One of the things that comes up when a family is considering the removal of life support is the question:
"What would Amy/Billy/Father/etc. want?"

I haven't seen women considering abortion ask themselves:
"What would the baby want?"
Really?

Because I think when a woman considers if her future child does not deserve a better life than she can provide for it that is pretty much the equivalent of, "What would the baby want?"
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Police: Kansas abortion physician killed Controversial doctor was acquitted in Ma

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Originally Posted by DownSouth View Post
I agree, abortion is a dreadful option – a belief widely shared among those who believe that decision should rest with the woman. It does present a moral dilemma for the individuals who face it, and obviously for those who oppose it. To criminalize it, as many anti-abortionists wish to do, however, seems narrow and wrong headed.

I think most if not all the posters in this forum believe abortion is a moral issue whether it is a religious issue for them or not. Certainly it is about the most personal issue a woman can have in her lifetime – her own body and her own child. Perhaps studies exist that provide insight to the reasons women have chosen abortion, but I haven’t seen them published. I suspect the majority of abortions, even early term abortions, are not entered into without highly personal and painful decisions by the women and families who have them.

Paradoxically, many of the same people whose religious beliefs condemn abortion also condemn all forms of birth control, up to and including the ancient “rhythm” method.. Some believe that women having sex for any reason other than conception is immoral. The controversy deepens because of differences in beliefs about when life actually begins, why sex exists, sexual behavior differing from what another individual believes is moral and also because the issue has been highly politicized. Because both morality and religion emanate from the emotional sources of thought, views can be less rational and more emotional, inviting peaceful protests as well as extremism. Despite Roe v/Wade, extremism has intimidated doctors and providers with bombings and assassinations and impacted the availability of services.

I am so thankful that I have not had to live with such decisions, but these questions come to mind:
  • Should your molested 11 or 12 year old daughter be forced to carry a baby to term, or do you think you, your family, and your minister should make that decision?
  • Would you or would you have your wife, daughter or sister to carry to full term a child conceived as a victim of rape or incest?
  • If you learn in the third trimester that your fetus is dead, should it be the government’s decision that you must carry it the weeks or months to divest itself or is that a decision you your family, and your physician should make?
  • Likewise, if you learn the fetus is incapable of surviving on its own after birth or can only be sustained with artificial support you cannot afford to provide, do you want that decision made by the government or painfully by yourself and your family and your clergyman?
  • Late term abortions are horrific – but could you or would you want your wife to carry a dead fetus or a fetus medical authorities have told you cannot survive once delivered? Can the government possibly know the emotional strength of a woman or her family to cope with the continuation of that pregnancy?
If only 10% of the energy invested in condemning abortion were directed to better sex education, availability of contraceptives, and promoting and support for adoption, abortion would be reduced. Regardless of the legitimate emotion evoked by abortion, in my opinion, there is a danger in removing women and their families from such decision making and handing over every American woman’s womb to the government.
Reasons given for having abortions in the United States
Quote:
Summary: This report reviews available statistics regarding reasons given for obtaining abortions in the United States, including surveys by the Alan Guttmacher Institute and data from seven state health/statistics agencies that report relevant statistics (Arizona, Florida, Louisiana, Minnesota, Nebraska, South Dakota, and Utah). The official data imply that AGI claims regarding "hard case" abortions are inflated by roughly a factor of three. Actual percentage of U.S. abortions in "hard cases" are estimated as follows: in cases of rape or incest, 0.3%; in cases of risk to maternal health or life, 1%; and in cases of fetal abnormality, 0.5%. About 98% of abortions in the United States are elective, including socio-economic reasons or for birth control. This includes perhaps 30% for primarily economic reasons.
So you'd favor passing laws that only protected abortions in those 2% of the cases that the pro-abortion forces use to defend this practice?? How about a law that protects the unborn from being harmed?? Is that such a horrible thing - protecting unborn children from harm? In most states, if you use illegal drugs while pregnant, it's a convictable crime of child abuse (something that I think we can all agree on is a good law). But, if you have a medical professional kill the child, it's perfectly legal. Same child, same parent, but because you have someone licenced to do it, suddenly it becomes OK to kill a child, something far worse than doing damage to the child.
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