Meet the women who won't have babies - because they're not eco friendly

Just Me · #1 (**permalink**) 11-25-2007, 08:41 PM

Oh this one just takes the cake on the wacko environmentalist.

BUT it got me thinking. Is it selfish to have children?
Meet the women who won't have babies - because they're not eco friendly | the Daily Mail

Quote:

Had Toni Vernelli gone ahead with her pregnancy ten years ago, she would know at first hand what it is like to cradle her own baby, to have a pair of innocent eyes gazing up at her with unconditional love, to feel a little hand slipping into hers - and a voice calling her Mummy.
But the very thought makes her shudder with horror.
Because when Toni terminated her pregnancy, she did so in the firm belief she was helping to save the planet.
Incredibly, so determined was she that the terrible "mistake" of pregnancy should never happen again, that she begged the doctor who performed the abortion to sterilize her at the same time.
He refused, but Toni - who works for an environmental charity - "relentlessly hunted down a doctor who would perform the irreversible surgery.
Finally, eight years ago, Toni got her way.
At the age of 27 this young woman at the height of her reproductive years was sterilized to "protect the planet".
Incredibly, instead of mourning the loss of a family that never was, her boyfriend (now husband) presented her with a congratulations card.
While some might think it strange to celebrate the reversal of nature and denial of motherhood, Toni relishes her decision with an almost religious zeal.
"Having children is selfish. It's all about maintaining your genetic line at the expense of the planet," says Toni, 35.
"Every person who is born uses more food, more water, more land, more fossil fuels, more trees and produces more rubbish, more pollution, more greenhouse gases, and adds to the problem of over-population."
While most parents view their children as the ultimate miracle of nature, Toni seems to see them as a sinister threat to the future.
It's an extreme stance which one might imagine is born from an unhappy childhood or an upbringing among parents who share similar, strong beliefs.
But nothing in Toni's safe, middle- class upbringing gave any clues as to the views which would shape her adult life. The eldest of three daughters, she enjoyed a loving, close-knit family life.
She excelled at her Roman Catholic school, and her doting parents fully expected her to grow up, settle down and start a family of her own.
"When I finished school, I got a job in retail and at 19, I met my first husband," says Toni.
"No sooner had we finished our wedding cake than all our relatives started to ask when they could expect a new addition to the family.
"I always told them that would never happen, but no one listened.
"When I was a child, I loved bird-watching, and in my teens that developed into a passion for the environment as well as the welfare of animals - I became a vegetarian when I was 15.
"Even my parents used to smile and say: 'You'll change your mind one day about babies.'
"The only person who understood how I felt was my first husband, who didn't want children either.
"We both passionately wanted to save the planet - not produce a new life which would only add to the problem."
So, instead of mapping out plans for a family, Toni and her husband began discussing medical options to ensure they would never reproduce.
Toni, from Taunton, Somerset, says: "When I was 21, I considered sterilization for the first time.
"I'd been on the Pill for five years and didn't want to take hormone-based contraception indefinitely.
"I went to my GP, but she wouldn't even consider the idea.
"She said I was far too young and told me I could 'absolutely not' be sterilized, and that I was bound to change my mind one day.
"I found her attitude frustrating.
"We decided my husband would have a vasectomy instead. He was 25, just a few years older than me, but the GP allowed him to go ahead.
"I found it insulting that she thought that, just because I was a woman, I'd reach a point where an urge to breed would overcome all rational thought."
When Toni was 23, her marriage ended. She says: "We married very young and grew apart."
Toni found herself young, single and with a new life in London, working for an environmental charity.
But while other young women dream of marriage and babies, Toni was convinced it was her duty not to have a child.
She claims she was far from alone.
"Through my job I made many friends who, like me, were more interested in campaigning, trying to change society and save the planet rather than having families of our own.
"We used to say that if ever we did want children, we'd adopt, as there are so many children in need of a loving family.
"At least then, we'd be doing something positive for the world, rather than something negative."
Toni was happy, at last, with fellow environmentalists who shared her philosophy. But when she was 25, disaster struck.
"I discovered that despite taking the Pill, I'd accidentally fallen pregnant by my boyfriend.
"I was horrified. I knew straight away there was no option of having the baby.
"I went to my doctor about having a termination, and asked if I could be sterilized at the same time.
"This time it was a male doctor. I remember saying to him: 'I want to make sure this never happens again.'
"He said: 'You may not want a child, but one day you may meet a man who does'. He refused to consider it.
"I didn't like having a termination, but it would have been immoral to give birth to a child that I felt strongly would only be a burden to the world.
"I've never felt a twinge of guilt about what I did, and have honestly never wondered what might have been.
"After my abortion, I was more determined than ever to pursue sterilization.
"By then, I had my mother's support - she realized I wasn't going to grow out of my beliefs, and was proud of my campaigning work."
At the age of 27, Toni moved to Brighton, where her dream of medical intervention was realized.
Toni says: "My new GP was more forward-thinking and referred me to hospital. I couldn't wait for the operation."
As Toni awaited the surgery which would destroy her fertility, she met her future husband, Ed, 38, an IT consultant.
"A week before my sterilization, I went to an animal rights demonstration and met Ed.
"I liked him immediately, and I told him what I was doing straight away - because if he wanted children then he needed to know I wasn't the woman for him," she says.
"But Ed was relieved when I told him how I felt and said he didn't want children for the same reasons."
On the morning of surgery, Ed gave Toni a card saying "Congratulations".
Toni says: "After the operation, which is irreversible, I didn't feel emotional - just relieved.
"I've never doubted that I made the right decision. Ed and I married in September 2002, and have a much nicer lifestyle as a result of not having children.
"We love walking and hiking, and we often go away for weekends.
"Every year, we also take a nice holiday - we've just come back from South Africa.
"We feel we can have one long-haul flight a year, as we are vegan and childless, thereby greatly reducing our carbon footprint and combating over-population.
"My only frustration is that other people are unable to accept my decision.
"When I tell people why I don't want children, they look at me as if I was planning to commit murder.
"A woman who does not have maternal-feelings is seen as some sort of anomaly.
"And a woman like me, who is not having children in order to save the planet, is considered barking mad.
"What I consider mad are those women who ferry their children short distances in gas-guzzling cars."
But Toni is far from alone.
When Sarah Irving, 31, was a teenager she sat down and wrote a wish-list for the future. Most young girls dream of marriage and babies. But Sarah dreamed of helping the environment - and as she agonized over the perils of climate change, the loss of animal species and destruction of wilderness, she came to the extraordinary decision never to have a child.
"I realized then that a baby would pollute the planet - and that never having a child was the most environmentally friendly thing I could do."
Sarah's boyfriends have been less understanding than Toni's, with the breakdown of several relationships.
"I've had boyfriends who wanted children, so I knew I couldn't be with them long term,' says Sarah.
"I've had to break up with a couple of boyfriends because I didn't think it was fair to waste their time.
"In my early 20s I had a boyfriend who I really liked, but he wanted to start a family as soon as possible.
"I was tempted to stay with him and hope he would change his mind, but I knew I couldn't provide him with what he wanted so I walked away."
Sarah started work for the Ethical Consumer magazine, and seven years ago she met her fiancÈ Mark Hudson, a 37-year- old health- care worker.
When they started dating in 2003, they immediately discussed their views on children.
"To my relief, Mark was as adamant as me that he didn't want a family. After a year of dating, we started talking about sterilization," says Sarah.
"I didn't want to have an 'accident' if contraception didn't work - we would be faced with the dilemma of whether to keep the baby."
While other young couples sit down and discuss mortgages, Sarah and Mark discussed the medical options for one or the other to be sterilized.
"We realized it was a much more straightforward procedure, safer and easier, for a man to be sterilized through a vasectomy than a woman to be sterilized," says Sarah.

I have to cut off part of the story as it the site would only allow so many characters. Hey cnredd can you up that BTW?

cnredd · #2 (**permalink**) 11-25-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Me

Oh this one just takes the cake on the wacko environmentalist.

BUT it got me thinking. Is it selfish to have children?
Meet the women who won't have babies - because they're not eco friendly | the Daily Mail

I have to cut off part of the story as it the site would only allow so many characters. Hey cnredd can you up that BTW?

If I do that, it allows people who come to "preach" and have an agenda put up articles that are too large and consuming...

Just Me · #3 (**permalink**) 11-25-2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd

If I do that, it allows people who come to "preach" and have an agenda put up articles that are too large and consuming...

Ops ok sorry I guess this one falls into the to large but I thought it was an interesting thought process these wackos errr...ah... I mean people have.

crazyflamingos · #4 (**permalink**) 11-25-2007, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Me

Oh this one just takes the cake on the wacko environmentalist.

BUT it got me thinking. Is it selfish to have children?
Meet the women who won't have babies - because they're not eco friendly | the Daily Mail

I have to cut off part of the story as it the site would only allow so many characters. Hey cnredd can you up that BTW?

I don't see anything all that wacky about these people. There are some of us who recycle aluminum cans and some of us who do things more extreme to help preserve the environment.

There is no doubt that each human born puts more strain on the world's resources. Why does it seem "wacky" for some people to decide not to bring additional humans into existence?

I've always figured that I was doing the environment a favor by not reproducing. In my case it was not so much a decision because of the environment as it was because I am gay and would have had to go to extreme measures to reproduce. But nonetheless, I consider it a plus rather than a minus in what I have contributed to the world.

As a matter of fact, my family, as a whole, had a negative affect on the world population. My parents had 5 children. I have no children. 3 siblings have 2 each. And one other sibling has none. (so far and she is 46)

When you add in our spousal equivalents, that is 10 people from my generation and only 7 (counting 1 stepchild) from the next generation, for a net loss of 3 humans taking up world resources.

Personally, I think we deserve a round of applause from every environmentally conscious person in the world.

KnightOfSappho · #5 (**permalink**) 11-25-2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Me

Oh this one just takes the cake on the wacko environmentalist.

BUT it got me thinking. Is it selfish to have children?
Meet the women who won't have babies - because they're not eco friendly | the Daily Mail

Almost all parents have children because the WANT a child for their own reasons; not for sake of the child itself.

Considering this, it IS selfish in that regard.

Just Me · #6 (**permalink**) 11-26-2007, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyflamingos

I don't see anything all that wacky about these people. There are some of us who recycle aluminum cans and some of us who do things more extreme to help preserve the environment.

There is no doubt that each human born puts more strain on the world's resources. Why does it seem "wacky" for some people to decide not to bring additional humans into existence?

I've always figured that I was doing the environment a favor by not reproducing. In my case it was not so much a decision because of the environment as it was because I am gay and would have had to go to extreme measures to reproduce. But nonetheless, I consider it a plus rather than a minus in what I have contributed to the world.

As a matter of fact, my family, as a whole, had a negative affect on the world population. My parents had 5 children. I have no children. 3 siblings have 2 each. And one other sibling has none. (so far and she is 46)

When you add in our spousal equivalents, that is 10 people from my generation and only 7 (counting 1 stepchild) from the next generation, for a net loss of 3 humans taking up world resources.

Personally, I think we deserve a round of applause from every environmentally conscious person in the world.[/quote]

Oh ok so it would be better for the planet if no one had kids? Great so we would have a nice clean planet with no one to live on it. Does that make sense to you?

If a couple have 2 children they are doing nothing but creating people to take their place. I simply do not understand how people can say that a squeaky clean planet is more important then a human life. Make no sense at all and as I said if everyone stops having kids the planet would be empty, that is better?

Just Me · #7 (**permalink**) 11-26-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnightOfSappho

Almost all parents have children because the WANT a child for their own reasons; not for sake of the child itself.

Considering this, it IS selfish in that regard.

I don't understand this statement. What do you think the reason is that people have children? And why is it selfish?

crazyflamingos · #8 (**permalink**) 11-26-2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Me

Oh ok so it would be better for the planet if no one had kids? Great so we would have a nice clean planet with no one to live on it. Does that make sense to you?

If a couple have 2 children they are doing nothing but creating people to take their place.

Is everything in your world all or nothing?

Show me where I said that everyone should stop having children.

It is not humans vs, nature because we are part of nature. Human beings have to have a reasonably clean environment in order to live. But because we have so much greater intelligence than the other animals, we have the ability to alter our environment much more drastically than they do. And the more of us there are, the more we alter the environment.

If some people choose not to reproduce the human race is not going to be wiped out.

Look around you. There are always going to be those whose drive to reproduce is in overdrive.

They will more than make up for the relatively few people who choose not to or who cannot reproduce at all.

Personally, I would be more prone to call someone who has 6 or 8 or more children wacky. What the hell is that about?

Quote:

I simply do not understand how people can say that a squeaky clean planet is more important then a human life.

Straw man. Has nothing to do with what I actually said.

Quote:

Make no sense at all and as I said if everyone stops having kids the planet would be empty, that is better?

Straw man. Has nothing to do with what I actually said.

KnightOfSappho · #9 (**permalink**) 11-26-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Me

I don't understand this statement. What do you think the reason is that people have children? And why is it selfish?

Fair enough...

People generally don't have babies for sake of the babies. They have them because they WANT the baby.

I think that most people have kids partially because of a biological imperative and partially becaue they, emotionally, want a pert of themselves for the future. Thee are other reasons, of course, but I think that those are the main two.

If people had babies for sake of the person that the baby would be, then they would have as many children as possible.

Understand that I am not evaluating the word 'selfish' as a negative thing. I an evaluating is as 'done for self' without other connotation. People have kids because they WANT kids.

crazyflamingos · #10 (**permalink**) 11-26-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Me

I don't understand this statement. What do you think the reason is that people have children? And why is it selfish?

Here are some of the reasons that I have gleaned from various conversations and readings on why people have children. Some of them are also representative of my own feelings on why I would have had children had I chosen to do so.

Most of them seem pretty selfish to me.

Perhaps you know of other reasons that are not so selfish.

Some have children because they believe it brings meaning and purpose to their life.
Some have children because the birth control failed.
Some have children so there will be someone to care about them in old age
Some have children from narcissism; they want to mold someone in their own image.
Some want sons to carry on the family name after the parents die.
Some have children because they simply love children and want someone to care for. (Much like some of us keep pets)
Some have children because they think that's what you do when you grow up;spouse, family or friends may tell them that is what they are supposed to do.
Some have a child in a misguided effort to hold on to a failing relationship
Some have a child because they feel unloved and believe their own child will have to love them unconditionally.
Some fear leaving this life with nothing to show for it and have children to leave a mark on the world.
And in addition to all of these reasons is the universal reason, biological imperative; it is an instinct to reproduce.

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