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News & Current Events Discuss Hospitals Threatened to Fire Nurses for Wearing Their Own Mask at the General Forum; Kaiser Permanente Hospital Threatened to Fire Nurses Treating Covid-19 Patients for Wearing Their Own Masks, Unions Say ...Nurses at Kaiser ...

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Old 03-27-2020, 07:57 PM
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Default Hospitals Threatened to Fire Nurses for Wearing Their Own Mask

Kaiser Permanente Hospital Threatened to Fire Nurses Treating Covid-19 Patients for Wearing Their Own Masks, Unions Say
...Nurses at Kaiser Permanente hospitals and clinics in California could be fired immediately for wearing their own face masks, according to unions representing nurses at the facilities. The news comes after nurses were ordered to reuse disposable protective gear to save supplies in the face of shortages brought on by the coronavirus pandemic.

The California Nurses Association and National Nurses United sent a flyer to members noting that Kaiser had threatened nurses with firing if they wear their own N95 masks, which offer a high level of protection from airborne contaminants, to work. “Kaiser has told nurses that if they’re seen wearing their personal N95 masks, they could be fired ‘on the spot’ for insubordination,” the flyer read. The unions did not immediately respond to a request for comment....
https://theintercept.com/2020/03/24/...s-coronavirus/


crazy
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Old 03-28-2020, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: Hospitals Threatened to Fire Nurses for Wearing Their Own Mask

Not crazy at all...

Kaiser KNOWS the law...and they know that if employees are wearing equipment not distributed or approved by management, this could (and will) result in major lawsuits from anyone that gets ill at their facility (and not just from coronavirus)...
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Old 03-28-2020, 12:33 AM
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Default Re: Hospitals Threatened to Fire Nurses for Wearing Their Own Mask

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Not crazy at all...

Kaiser KNOWS the law...and they know that if employees are wearing equipment not distributed or approved by management, this could (and will) result in major lawsuits from anyone that gets ill at their facility (and not just from coronavirus)...
I'm still not seeing the sanity here redd.
If you're correct then the law and the hospital are crazy.
If the nurses wear NOTHING they'll be MORE likely to get and spread coronavirus.
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Old 03-28-2020, 01:28 AM
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Default Re: Hospitals Threatened to Fire Nurses for Wearing Their Own Mask

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
I'm still not seeing the sanity here redd.
If you're correct then the law and the hospital are crazy.
If the nurses wear NOTHING they'll be MORE likely to get and spread coronavirus.
But they're not "wearing nothing"...

According to your own source in the OP...

Quote:
nurses were ordered to reuse disposable protective gear to save supplies in the face of shortages
Not ideal, but still company property compared to un-approved gear...
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Old 03-28-2020, 04:57 AM
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Default Re: Hospitals Threatened to Fire Nurses for Wearing Their Own Mask

lawsuit shmaw suit. Here's my notice.
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Old 03-28-2020, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: Hospitals Threatened to Fire Nurses for Wearing Their Own Mask

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
But they're not "wearing nothing"...

According to your own source in the OP...

Not ideal, but still company property compared to un-approved gear...
Sorry, I'm still not convinced the rest of the article mentions how all the protective gear has been downgraded and/or rationed by the hospitals not just the mask. leaving them more vulnerable.
"N95 masks, which offer a high level of protection from airborne contaminants"
Heres a bit from an article about boxes of old N95 mask found in storage and the options for use
Quote:
...The N95 masks, which provide essential protection to medical personnel treating infected patients, are one of the items that have gone lacking in New York City hospitals and across the country in recent days as demand for equipment soars. Manufacturers have said the masks remain effective if stored properly, and the main risk with age is that the masks’ elastic bands can weaken and prevent a proper seal against a user’s face...
link
I'm no expert here but seems to me that Nurses who have managed to get their own mask are probably using mask that would be the MOST effective in their minds... and objectively.
Since the hospitals rules have told them
"...to reuse disposable protective gear to save supplies in the face of shortages brought on by the coronavirus pandemic..."
the main issue is really the shortage of mask and as you said "lawsuits" not the assumed LACK of effectiveness the nurse's mask.
Seems to me that "Official Approval" only covers the hospital's ARSE legally while leaving the nurses and patients less protected medically than they could be.

"...Kaiser nurses last week received guidelines downgrading protective standards and giving instructions on how to reuse certain types of eyewear and masks. That change came after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention earlier this month downgraded from protocols for airborne contamination to protocols for droplet contamination, noting that the change was based on supply rather than science..."

So I guess they're not worried about lawsuits from Nurses if they are harmed since they are following gov't regs.
So the Hospitals are legally safe on that front. Which of course is the MAIN thing they should be concerned about during a pandemic I guess.
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Last edited by mr wonder; 03-28-2020 at 09:58 AM..
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Old 03-28-2020, 11:04 AM
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Default Re: Hospitals Threatened to Fire Nurses for Wearing Their Own Mask

Remember when the STUXNET virus wreaked havoc on Iranian centrifuges being used to refine nuclear weapons grade uranium? Out of fear of virus contamination the Iranians banned internet connection of their process control computers. Nonetheless the virus got in when workers brought it from home on USB sticks. The virus was brilliantly engineered to be dormant until it detected it was in the target environment.

The parallels to hospital workers bringing their own masks and nuclear weapons workers with their personal USB sticks ought to be obvious. Unfortunately the reflexive condemnation of hospital management without consideration of all the factors involved is also obvious.
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Old 03-28-2020, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Hospitals Threatened to Fire Nurses for Wearing Their Own Mask

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Remember when the STUXNET virus wreaked havoc on Iranian centrifuges being used to refine nuclear weapons grade uranium? Out of fear of virus contamination the Iranians banned internet connection of their process control computers. Nonetheless the virus got in when workers brought it from home on USB sticks. The virus was brilliantly engineered to be dormant until it detected it was in the target environment.

The parallels to hospital workers bringing their own masks and nuclear weapons workers with their personal USB sticks ought to be obvious. Unfortunately the reflexive condemnation of hospital management without consideration of all the factors involved is also obvious.
Well, honestly, no, i don't think personal USBs and personal hospital mask are not an obvious parallel.
USB sticks are are NOT necessary for safety on the job or something used to protect the computers they are connected too. they are well known computer virus carriers.
A better comparison would be a nuke facility that lost all it's official standard anti-virus software disk and so employees bring in their own unopened disk copies of the same software and load them on their computers.
the only difference being is the the employee had purchased the software instead of the facility.
But the facility is telling everyone to use an inferior anti-virus software instead becasue they can't find a new supply of the better one and gov't recommended it during the shortage.

And the condemnation of hospital management is not reflexive, it's based on the management's apparent concern about legal liability over medical safety.
But i have to wonder, do some people have a reflexive defense of management when a union or staff point out an problem? Is management always right AZ?
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Old 03-28-2020, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: Hospitals Threatened to Fire Nurses for Wearing Their Own Mask

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
I'm still not seeing the sanity here redd.
If you're correct then the law and the hospital are crazy.
If the nurses wear NOTHING they'll be MORE likely to get and spread coronavirus.
I see the sanity. Like any other group, if you ask a group of nurses what's best, you'll get 12 differing opinions. One of which will be red bandannas soaked in scotch.

Consistency is important. It's no different than letting each nurse decide on the treatment for each if their cases.
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Old 03-28-2020, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: Hospitals Threatened to Fire Nurses for Wearing Their Own Mask

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
I see the sanity. Like any other group, if you ask a group of nurses what's best, you'll get 12 differing opinions. One of which will be red bandannas soaked in scotch.
Consistency is important. It's no different than letting each nurse decide on the treatment for each if their cases.
seriously?
there's a huge difference in the letting the nurses decide on the treatment for each if their cases. c'mon.
jimbo remember, the mask are already recommended universally.
the problem is a shortage, not whether or not they should or shouldn't be used medically. If the hospital could get the SAME mask they'd issue them to the staff... and they already had, but they ran out so they went to plan B. It's not just some personal preference.
Consistency is important. But protecting as many staff as possible with the best equipment available is more important.
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Last edited by mr wonder; 03-28-2020 at 11:41 AM..
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