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News & Current Events Discuss New York Area Fire Commissioners Make History, Call for New 9/11 Investigation at the General Forum; Originally Posted by mr wonder Look, if you're not going to reply yourself fine. I'll refer you to the many ...

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Old 08-07-2019, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: New York Area Fire Commissioners Make History, Call for New 9/11 Investigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Look, if you're not going to reply yourself fine.
I'll refer you to the many internet replies to the supposed debunkings you mention.
And also for your question about "how did..."

But again the how question is 2ndary.
It does not refute the fact that explosive residue has been found in the WTC remains. And not aluminum based explosive material but nano-termite used in high end demolition work. As well as the tell-tale residue that type of explosive material leaves behind.
So at some point someone put explosives there and they were used.
I'm not going to waste any more time on a thread about a nothing burger conspiracy theory, but I do have one question:
How would really small termites be useful considering the building wasn't made of wood?

Sorry, I know it's just a typo but I couldn't resist.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: New York Area Fire Commissioners Make History, Call for New 9/11 Investigation

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Originally Posted by lurch907 View Post
I'm not going to waste any more time on a thread about a nothing burger conspiracy theory, but I do have one question:
How would really small termites be useful considering the building wasn't made of wood?

Sorry, I know it's just a typo but I couldn't resist.
Yep, arrg, pretty sad typo on my part,
Thermite ... not Termite.

And sure, if you want to ignore the evidence and not address it ok, fine,
But some families of the victims and these NY area fire chiefs who lost men don't think it's a waste of time though.
neither do the lawyers, scientist, engineers and architects that have gathered the evidence and presented it to the AGs and the courts.
It's moving forward on the strength of the facts.
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Old 08-08-2019, 08:59 AM
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Default Re: New York Area Fire Commissioners Make History, Call for New 9/11 Investigation

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Yep, arrg, pretty sad typo on my part,
Thermite ... not Termite.

And sure, if you want to ignore the evidence and not address it ok, fine,
But some families of the victims and these NY area fire chiefs who lost men don't think it's a waste of time though.
neither do the lawyers, scientist, engineers and architects that have gathered the evidence and presented it to the AGs and the courts.
It's moving forward on the strength of the facts.
Just what the country needs. Another go nowhere investigation costing millions concerning an issue that has long ago been put to bed.

Billions of people watched airplanes fly into buildings live on TV, and thousands watched live from ground level. And buildings fell down when the planes hit. The conspiracy theorists also ignore the fact there were four related incidents, not two. There is no molten aluminum pool in the middle of the Penn field or the Pentagon.

There, I 'splained it. Where do I send the bill?
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Old 09-14-2019, 12:36 AM
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Default Re: New York Area Fire Commissioners Make History, Call for New 9/11 Investigation

http://youtu.be/ZOBwfEWXxPY

Quote:
The 9/11 Commission and its final report are still held up as the final word on the events of September 11, 2001. But there’s just one problem: Six out of the 10 commissioners have admitted that the commission was misled, stymied, hampered by conflicts of interest, and, ultimately, forced to participate in a politically motivated cover-up. This is the story of the doubtful 9/11 commissioners.

TRANSCRIPT
Of all the 9/11 whistleblowers, perhaps the most noteworthy are the 9/11 Commissioners themselves.
The 9/11 Commission (formally “The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States”) was set up by President George W. Bush, who dragged his heels a full 441 days before finally establishing a body to investigate the events of September 11, 2001, and “to prepare a full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding” them. But that remarkable gap between the events and the empaneling of the Commission was not due to mere laziness; Bush actively resisted any investigation for as long as he could, taking the extraordinary and unprecedented step of personally asking Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle to limit Congress’ investigation into those events....
https://www.corbettreport.com/9-11-w...commissioners/
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: New York Area Fire Commissioners Make History, Call for New 9/11 Investigation


KTVA: Fire did not cause World Trade Center Building 7 collapse, UAF study suggests

Alaska CBS affiliate KTVA breaks the mainstream media's deafening silence on the groundbreaking University of Alaska Fairbanks WTC 7 study, which was released Sept. 3, 2019.

study abstract link
ABSTRACT
A Structural Reevaluation of the Collapse of World Trade Center 7
By J. Leroy Hulsey, Ph.D., P.E., S.E., University of Alaska Fairbanks
And Zhili Quan, Ph.D., Bridge Engineer South Carolina Department of Transportation
And Feng Xiao, Ph.D.,Associate Professor Nanjing University of Science and Technology Department of Civil Engineering

This report presents the findings and conclusions of a four-year study of the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 (WTC 7)—a 47-story building that suffered a total collapse at 5:20 PM on September 11, 2001, following the horrible events of that morning.The objective of the study was threefold: (1)Examine the structural response of WTC 7 to fire loads that may have occurred on September 11, 2001; (2)Rule out scenarios that could not have caused the observed collapse; and (3)Identify types of failures and their locations that may have caused the total collapse to occur as observed.The UAF research team utilized three approaches for examining the structural response of WTC 7 to the conditions that may have occurred on September 11, 2001. First,we simulated the local structural response to fireloading that may have occurred below Floor 13, where most of the fires in WTC 7 are reported to have occurred. Second, we supplemented our own simulation by examining the collapse initiation hypothesis developed bythe National Institute of Standards and Technology(NIST). Third, we simulated a number of scenarios within the overall structural system in order to determine what types of local failures and their locations may have caused the total collapse to occur as observed.The principal conclusion of our study is that fire did not cause the collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11, contrary to the conclusions of NIST and private engineering firms that studied the collapse. The secondary conclusion of our study is that the collapse of WTC 7 was a global failure involvingthe near-simultaneous failureof every column in the building.All inputdata, results data, and simulations that were used or generated during this study are available at WTC7.
link
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: New York Area Fire Commissioners Make History, Call for New 9/11 Investigation

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
KTVA: Fire did not cause World Trade Center Building 7 collapse, UAF study suggests
https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...-trade-center/

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Old 11-16-2019, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: New York Area Fire Commissioners Make History, Call for New 9/11 Investigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pa0vC-Zbso

KTVA: Fire did not cause World Trade Center Building 7 collapse, UAF study suggests

Alaska CBS affiliate KTVA breaks the mainstream media's deafening silence on the groundbreaking University of Alaska Fairbanks WTC 7 study, which was released Sept. 3, 2019.

study abstract link
ABSTRACT
A Structural Reevaluation of the Collapse of World Trade Center 7
By J. Leroy Hulsey, Ph.D., P.E., S.E., University of Alaska Fairbanks
And Zhili Quan, Ph.D., Bridge Engineer South Carolina Department of Transportation
And Feng Xiao, Ph.D.,Associate Professor Nanjing University of Science and Technology Department of Civil Engineering

This report presents the findings and conclusions of a four-year study of the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 (WTC 7)—a 47-story building that suffered a total collapse at 5:20 PM on September 11, 2001, following the horrible events of that morning.The objective of the study was threefold: (1)Examine the structural response of WTC 7 to fire loads that may have occurred on September 11, 2001; (2)Rule out scenarios that could not have caused the observed collapse; and (3)Identify types of failures and their locations that may have caused the total collapse to occur as observed.The UAF research team utilized three approaches for examining the structural response of WTC 7 to the conditions that may have occurred on September 11, 2001. First,we simulated the local structural response to fireloading that may have occurred below Floor 13, where most of the fires in WTC 7 are reported to have occurred. Second, we supplemented our own simulation by examining the collapse initiation hypothesis developed bythe National Institute of Standards and Technology(NIST). Third, we simulated a number of scenarios within the overall structural system in order to determine what types of local failures and their locations may have caused the total collapse to occur as observed.The principal conclusion of our study is that fire did not cause the collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11, contrary to the conclusions of NIST and private engineering firms that studied the collapse. The secondary conclusion of our study is that the collapse of WTC 7 was a global failure involvingthe near-simultaneous failureof every column in the building.All inputdata, results data, and simulations that were used or generated during this study are available at WTC7.
link

Truffer-tards should build a 1/10th scale replica of the trade center buildings and fly 1/10th scale planes into those buildings. They can use the same exact materials but just 1/10th scale used to construct those buildings and planes. They could even make sure to take into account the weight of the furniture, AC and heating equipment, weight of the passengers and luggage in the planes. Maybe even recreate 1/10 of the winds.They could crowd fund that experiment to try to physically prove that planes weighing who knows how many tons slamming into buildings who knows how many miles per hour and causing massive fires won't cause them to collapse. And when that experiment fails they can then crowd fund for a full size experiment the middle of nowhere.
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Old 11-16-2019, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: New York Area Fire Commissioners Make History, Call for New 9/11 Investigation

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Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
Truffer-tards should build a 1/10th scale replica of the trade center buildings and fly 1/10th scale planes into those buildings. They can use the same exact materials but just 1/10th scale used to construct those buildings and planes. They could even make sure to take into account the weight of the furniture, AC and heating equipment, weight of the passengers and luggage in the planes. Maybe even recreate 1/10 of the winds.They could crowd fund that experiment to try to physically prove that planes weighing who knows how many tons slamming into buildings who knows how many miles per hour and causing massive fires won't cause them to collapse. And when that experiment fails they can then crowd fund for a full size experiment the middle of nowhere.
or when the experiment succeeds some people will ignore it as well and make up more clever names to call the engineers and PhDs that did the study.

Dude,
At least cnredd posted a link to counter claims.
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Old 11-16-2019, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: New York Area Fire Commissioners Make History, Call for New 9/11 Investigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
the text from the POP MECH link specifically about Building 7
(bolded mine)
Quote:
WTC 7 Collapse

Claim: Seven hours after the two towers fell, the 47-story WTC 7 collapsed. According to 911review.org: "The video clearly shows that it was not a collapse subsequent to a fire, but rather a controlled demolition: amongst the Internet investigators, the jury is in on this one."

image

Fire Storm: WTC 7 stands amid the rubble of the recently collapsed Twin Towers. Damaged by falling debris, the building then endures a fire that rages for hours. Experts say this combination, not a demolition-style implosion, led to the roofline "kink" that signals WTC 7's progressive collapse. (Photograph by New York Office of Emergency Management)

FACT: Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom—approximately 10 stories—about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.

NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.

According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."

There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.

Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."

WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors—along with the building's unusual construction—were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.
OK I guess that sounds plaulsible and is in fact good enough for most people.
and most people won't bother to ask 2nd and thrid questions concerning the details.

but for those who do again
ABSTRACT
A Structural Reevaluation of the Collapse of World Trade Center 7
By J. Leroy Hulsey, Ph.D., P.E., S.E., University of Alaska Fairbanks
And Zhili Quan, Ph.D., Bridge Engineer South Carolina Department of Transportation
And Feng Xiao, Ph.D.,Associate Professor Nanjing University of Science and Technology Department of Civil Engineering

This report presents the findings and conclusions of a four-year study of the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 (WTC 7)—a 47-story building that suffered a total collapse at 5:20 PM on September 11, 2001, following the horrible events of that morning.The objective of the study was threefold: (1)Examine the structural response of WTC 7 to fire loads that may have occurred on September 11, 2001; (2)Rule out scenarios that could not have caused the observed collapse; and (3)Identify types of failures and their locations that may have caused the total collapse to occur as observed.The UAF research team utilized three approaches for examining the structural response of WTC 7 to the conditions that may have occurred on September 11, 2001. First, we simulated the local structural response to fireloading that may have occurred below Floor 13, where most of the fires in WTC 7 are reported to have occurred. Second, we supplemented our own simulation by examining the collapse initiation hypothesis developed by the National Institute of Standards and Technology(NIST). Third, we simulated a number of scenarios within the overall structural system in order to determine what types of local failures and their locations may have caused the total collapse to occur as observed.The principal conclusion of our study is that fire did not cause the collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11, contrary to the conclusions of NIST and private engineering firms that studied the collapse. The secondary conclusion of our study is that the collapse of WTC 7 was a global failure involving the near-simultaneous failure of every column in the building.All input data, results data, and simulations that were used or generated during this study are available at WTC7.
there's nothing in the POPMECH Bldg7 comments that's being questioned much concerning the damage and fires. What the study refutes is the conclusion.
The Scientist at the university used what NIST SAID and tested it against what was observed to happen, ran the numbers and the simulation in multiple versions and concluded NIST is wrong.
The building should not have fallen or at the very least it should not have fallen in the manner it did.

Sure, we can put our heads in the sand if we like.
doesn't help much though.
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:48 PM
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Default Re: New York Area Fire Commissioners Make History, Call for New 9/11 Investigation

Correct, the fire did not cause the buildings to collapse, The chemical reaction of the melted, super heated aluminum from the planes weakened the steel supporting structure due to the planes scrapping off all the fire proofing, thus collapsing the structure.
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