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News & Current Events Discuss Republicans propose constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning — President Trump at the General Forum; i’m not so sure it should be legal to burn anything in public; even for some protest. if you want ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2019, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Republicans propose constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning — President T

i’m not so sure it should be legal to burn anything in public; even for some protest.
if you want to protest something then legally assemble and state your case for the world to hear.
burning something does nothing for any cause.
heck, next someone might want to burn down an rotc building...oh wait...never mind.
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: Republicans propose constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning — President T

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Hairy Jello put up this cartoon a couple of weeks ago...

And it's a pretty sh-tty cartoon.

I know where Stonetoss was going with this, but pretending both of these are literally, absolutely the same, and one is unfairly labelled something else takes a lot of obtuse thinking. One flag represents a marginalized group of people and their struggle for equal rights under the law, and one represents a country with a rather lousy government, and burning one is usually done in protest against said marginalized group's rights, while the other is usually burned in protest against government actions.

There's a canyon of difference in regards to why a person usually burns or steps on these flags. Punching up vs punching down. Burning an American flag typically isn't done because "F-ck this particular minority!".
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:03 AM
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Default Re: Republicans propose constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning — President T

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Originally Posted by WallyWager View Post
And it's a pretty sh-tty cartoon.

I know where Stonetoss was going with this, but pretending both of these are literally, absolutely the same, and one is unfairly labelled something else takes a lot of obtuse thinking. One flag represents a marginalized group of people and their struggle for equal rights under the law, and one represents a country with a rather lousy government, and burning one is usually done in protest against said marginalized group's rights, while the other is usually burned in protest against government actions.

There's a canyon of difference in regards to why a person usually burns or steps on these flags. Punching up vs punching down. Burning an American flag typically isn't done because "F-ck this particular minority!".
Struggle for equal rights under the law? What rights are they seeking that they don't currently have? From what I can tell, they have the same rights that I or anyone else I know in the country, have. What they want are "Special Rights" simply because of their immoral lifestyle. Call it what you want, but it does not change the facts.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: Republicans propose constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning — President T

Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyWager View Post
And it's a pretty sh-tty cartoon.

I know where Stonetoss was going with this, but pretending both of these are literally, absolutely the same, and one is unfairly labelled something else takes a lot of obtuse thinking. One flag represents a marginalized group of people and their struggle for equal rights under the law, and one represents a country with a rather lousy government, and burning one is usually done in protest against said marginalized group's rights, while the other is usually burned in protest against government actions.

There's a canyon of difference in regards to why a person usually burns or steps on these flags. Punching up vs punching down. Burning an American flag typically isn't done because "F-ck this particular minority!".
The lousy government protects your right to criticize it unlike many places in the world. But designated victim groups, the marginalized must be granted superior status immune from criticism in the name of equal rights.

Form a group and assert rights to the judiciary even those so-called rights that have been rejected by referendum that's the new template. If every demand isn't enthusiastically embraced it "proof" of a lousy government.
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:23 AM
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Default Re: Republicans propose constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning — President T

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Originally Posted by WallyWager View Post
Trump's right, it's a no-brainer.

Every time this has come up for a vote, an amendment to ban flag burning has failed to pass. It requires a 2/3rds vote in the House and Senate, surely there are enough Democrats and Republicans that value free speech enough to oppose it again. Came close in 2006, lost by one vote in the Senate, and surprisingly one of the three Republican no votes was Mitch McConnell. Guess he used to be useful for something.

This is nothing more than some meaningless red meat for the base. There are zero good reasons to make it illegal, and plenty of bad reasons to do so.

He and they should get back to failing at immigration and not giving a sh-t about the deficit.
I agree with what I bolded. Once a particular freedom of expression is quashed, it could be a slippery slope to others.

Not that there haven't been meaningless gestures during every administration, trying to make this a Constitutional Amendment is taking it too far.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: Republicans propose constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning — President T

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Originally Posted by Hairy Jello View Post
I'm all for free speech but always thought it should be illegal to burn the American flag.
As a US Army combat veteran that swore the oath "that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" and that include Freedom of Speech that protects "flag burning" in the United States.

The burning of the American flag (or the taking of a knee during the national anthem) is not a protest against the United States, or our Constitution, or our American ideals. It's a protest against the violation of our American ideals. protected by the Constitution, that the United States stands for The burning of an American flag in protest to the actions of our government is a sign of patriotism in protest against those in our government that are disregarding the values upon which our nation was built as embodied in the Declaration of Independence, America's First Principles, and that are protected by the US Constitution.

Flag burning is the most extreme demonstration of American patriotism by an American that I'm aware of.

This doesn't necessarily apply to foreigners in foreign countries burning of our flag, where our laws have no jurisdiction anyway, but in one sense it does because if we were following our American ideals they wouldn't have any reason to burn an American flag.
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: Republicans propose constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning — President T

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
As a US Army combat veteran that swore the oath "that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" and that include Freedom of Speech that protects "flag burning" in the United States.

The burning of the American flag (or the taking of a knee during the national anthem) is not a protest against the United States, or our Constitution, or our American ideals. It's a protest against the violation of our American ideals. protected by the Constitution, that the United States stands for The burning of an American flag in protest to the actions of our government is a sign of patriotism in protest against those in our government that are disregarding the values upon which our nation was built as embodied in the Declaration of Independence, America's First Principles, and that are protected by the US Constitution.

Flag burning is the most extreme demonstration of American patriotism by an American that I'm aware of.

This doesn't necessarily apply to foreigners in foreign countries burning of our flag, where our laws have no jurisdiction anyway, but in one sense it does because if we were following our American ideals they wouldn't have any reason to burn an American flag.
I also helped guarantee the rights of Americans to be ass holes if they wanted to be. If you want to take a knee in protest against the violation of our ideals, you can stick your thumbs up your ass also for all I care. I think people get more things done if they do them through the changing of ideas instead. All your knee bending, flag burning, circle jerks, elephant walks, thumb switching, et cetera, will do exactly doodly squat.

DISCLAIMER for potential snowflakes reading the above--

"You" is general.
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Old 06-20-2019, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: Republicans propose constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning — President T

Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyWager View Post
Trump's right, it's a no-brainer.

Every time this has come up for a vote, an amendment to ban flag burning has failed to pass. It requires a 2/3rds vote in the House and Senate, surely there are enough Democrats and Republicans that value free speech enough to oppose it again. Came close in 2006, lost by one vote in the Senate, and surprisingly one of the three Republican no votes was Mitch McConnell. Guess he used to be useful for something.

This is nothing more than some meaningless red meat for the base. There are zero good reasons to make it illegal, and plenty of bad reasons to do so.

He and they should get back to failing at immigration and not giving a sh-t about the deficit.
It is really a very close call, in my book.

Freedom of speech (guaranteed by the First Amendment) would appear to be on the side of the flag burners.

On the other hand, there is something so very incendiary about this act--something like putting up a billboard, in a mostly black community, that simply shouts the "N" word in huge letters--that I feel uncomfortable about just letting it go.

I can easily see the arguments both ways. And I remain ambivalent.
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: Republicans propose constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning — President T

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
It is really a very close call, in my book.

Freedom of speech (guaranteed by the First Amendment) would appear to be on the side of the flag burners.

On the other hand, there is something so very incendiary about this act--something like putting up a billboard, in a mostly black community, that simply shouts the "N" word in huge letters--that I feel uncomfortable about just letting it go.

I can easily see the arguments both ways. And I remain ambivalent.
You've described it well. Bravo for that! I would ask you to remember that freedom of speech is to protect speech that makes us uncomfortable, speech that is even scorned. We wouldn't have needed the amendment if it only protected speech that we are "O.K." with.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:30 AM
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Default Re: Republicans propose constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning — President T

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
Struggle for equal rights under the law? What rights are they seeking that they don't currently have? From what I can tell, they have the same rights that I or anyone else I know in the country, have. What they want are "Special Rights" simply because of their immoral lifestyle. Call it what you want, but it does not change the facts.
Agree with everything but the word 'immoral'. But that's just me.
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