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News & Current Events Discuss De Blasio Threatens to Sue if Trump Sends Immigrants to Sanctuary City NYC at the General Forum; Originally Posted by ShivaTD The cities being cited to have resources that are used to help immigrants but so do ...

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Old 04-18-2019, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: De Blasio Threatens to Sue if Trump Sends Immigrants to Sanctuary City NYC

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The cities being cited to have resources that are used to help immigrants but so do other cities and communities. Where the best location for resettlement is has to be based upon a consideration for the specific resources that can assist the refugees and those efforts need to be coordinated with the cities/communities and resource providers. You just don't "dump" people into a situation without prior planning by those involved in the resettlement.

No cities or states have any laws or regulations that prevent ICE from fulfilling it's responsibility to enforce the federal immigration laws. Some communities prohibit their law enforcement agencies from actions on behalf of ICE because of the negative impact that it has on the ability of local/state law enforcement to enforce state/local laws.



The detention facilities are full because ICE is detaining asylum seekers that should be released as soon as their application for asylum is accepted. Tens of thousands of people that have had their asylum application accepted are being detained without reason.

Yes, the release of refugees that have had their asylum application accepted should be "spread around" and that's the role of the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR). No one objects to using the ORR to coordinate the relocation of these refugees. The problem is that ICE, under the leadership of Donald Trump, is not using ORR to facilitate to relocation of these refugees and instead is just dumping them on the streets. If Tucson has a problem with too many refugees being dumped on it's streets then blame the Trump administration for not using the ORR like it should be.

Note: Allegations of "catch and release" are no longer valid.

The Obama Administration solved the problem of "catch and release" for asylum seekers with the Family Case Management Program that provided assistance to asylum seekers released from detention and it had a 100% appearance rate in the immigration courts.

President Trump cancelled this program choosing detention and family separation instead.
Illegal aliens are being released into cities without the careful consideration you suggest. Localities boasted they accept illegal aliens with open arms, that illegal aliens make their community better but when it comes time to actually receive the people they say they want well, ship them someplace else. Hypocrites.

Where are the asylum seekers supposed to go while the ORR deliberated? Oh wait, in Monday's townhall Bernie suggested building barracks for them along the border, anything to preserve dear old Vermont from the impact of Democrats open border partisan policies.

The Family Case Management program was a pilot project that provided services to less than 1,000 hand selected clients. Clients were chosen from groups that were likely to report for immigration hearings anyway. It did not provide shelter, food or medical care for a single illegal immigrant. The program is nothing but a Potemkin village for partisan Democrats.

http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/pre...trump-can.html
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Old 04-18-2019, 01:36 PM
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Default Re: De Blasio Threatens to Sue if Trump Sends Immigrants to Sanctuary City NYC

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The cities being cited to have resources that are used to help immigrants but so do other cities and communities. Where the best location for resettlement is has to be based upon a consideration for the specific resources that can assist the refugees and those efforts need to be coordinated with the cities/communities and resource providers. You just don't "dump" people into a situation without prior planning by those involved in the resettlement.

No cities or states have any laws or regulations that prevent ICE from fulfilling it's responsibility to enforce the federal immigration laws. Some communities prohibit their law enforcement agencies from actions on behalf of ICE because of the negative impact that it has on the ability of local/state law enforcement to enforce state/local laws.


The detention facilities are full because ICE is detaining asylum seekers that should be released as soon as their application for asylum is accepted. Tens of thousands of people that have had their asylum application accepted are being detained without reason.

Yes, the release of refugees that have had their asylum application accepted should be "spread around" and that's the role of the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR). No one objects to using the ORR to coordinate the relocation of these refugees. The problem is that ICE, under the leadership of Donald Trump, is not using ORR to facilitate to relocation of these refugees and instead is just dumping them on the streets. If Tucson has a problem with too many refugees being dumped on it's streets then blame the Trump administration for not using the ORR like it should be.

Note: Allegations of "catch and release" are no longer valid.

The Obama Administration solved the problem of "catch and release" for asylum seekers with the Family Case Management Program that provided assistance to asylum seekers released from detention and it had a 100% appearance rate in the immigration courts.

President Trump cancelled this program choosing detention and family separation instead.
More unfounded babbling not really worthy of response, but a couple points:

I doubt that Obama's catch and release program had anywhere a 100% court appearance rate. The number I remember was something like 10%.

It was Obama, not Trump, that instituted detention and family separation. Those caged people pictures were found to be from the Obama era. That's the program President Trump inherited, not one he started.

Since many cities have put out the welcome mat and many have said hell no, it seems to me that they should be placed where they are wanted.

It also is my policy that when I extend an invitation to someone to visit, I put out fresh towels and lay in a little extra food. Poor planning on their part does not make a crisis on my part.
BTW, ORR assists invaders already vetted AFTER they are resettled according to their mission statement. Even if you were correct, ORR would be collecting these so called refugees before they got dumped on the streets.

More Shiva babble.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:25 PM
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Default Re: De Blasio Threatens to Sue if Trump Sends Immigrants to Sanctuary City NYC

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Note: Allegations of "catch and release" are no longer valid.

The Obama Administration solved the problem of "catch and release" for asylum seekers with the Family Case Management Program that provided assistance to asylum seekers released from detention and it had a 100% appearance rate in the immigration courts.
Here is what Wikipedia has to say about the policy, under President Trump:

"In April 2018, Trump signed an executive memorandum [that] directs federal officials to report to him on measures to 'expeditiously end "catch and release" practices'; the memorandum directed officials to produce reports on facilities (such as military bases) that could be used for immigration detention."

The only thing it says about Barack Obama, in this regard, is the following:

"In 2014, Chuck Grassley and other Republican senators introduced legislation to close what they called a 'catch-and-release loophole'; the legislation would reverse the Zadvydas v. Davis decision, allowing DHS to detain "non-removable immigrants" (those whose home countries will not accept their return) for more than six months under certain circumstances."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
President Trump cancelled this program choosing detention and family separation instead.
As for "family separation," here are its words:

"On June 20, 2018, Trump bowed to intense political pressure and signed an executive order to reverse the policy [of the original zero tolerance, leading to family separation,] while still maintaining 'zero tolerance' border control by detaining entire families together."
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Old 04-18-2019, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: De Blasio Threatens to Sue if Trump Sends Immigrants to Sanctuary City NYC

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Originally Posted by CindyB View Post
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...uary-city-nyc/



Talk about the height of hypocrisy, with one side of their mouth the morons say they 'welcome' illegals in this country, but when it comes down to actually having to take them in, in THEIR city, they are going to sue Trump. Incredible
he has a point. trump should not use millions of people-the people of these cities- for political purposes. it will harm these places. donnie is a scum bag but now he's getting on my nerves. I hope there's some country left when he finally goes back to his crypt.
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:17 PM
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Default Re: De Blasio Threatens to Sue if Trump Sends Immigrants to Sanctuary City NYC

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
he has a point. trump should not use millions of people-the people of these cities- for political purposes. it will harm these places. donnie is a scum bag but now he's getting on my nerves. I hope there's some country left when he finally goes back to his crypt.


Can you explain then what, in the name of Minerva's butthole, those sanctuary cities are for, if not to welcome illegal aliens? I should think they would be kicking the crap out fo each other to get as many of those moochers as they can.
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: De Blasio Threatens to Sue if Trump Sends Immigrants to Sanctuary City NYC

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
he has a point. trump should not use millions of people-the people of these cities- for political purposes. it will harm these places. donnie is a scum bag but now he's getting on my nerves. I hope there's some country left when he finally goes back to his crypt.
Lest you forget, it wasn't President Trump that used these people for political purposes. These cities did it to themselves all by themselves. They issued loud proclamations that illegals could do nothing but good for their cities. Diversity and all that, and I suspect there was a need for cheap lawn guys.

But now that may actually come to pass, suddenly it's it will harm these people.

Salty, President Trump has been getting on your nerves since Hillary lost. You're not even trying to make sense,
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:19 AM
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Default Re: De Blasio Threatens to Sue if Trump Sends Immigrants to Sanctuary City NYC

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
The two are not mutually exclusive.

Of course, we are all individuals.

But these people entered the United Stated illegally.
Once their application for asylum is granted how they entered the country becomes moot. They are lawfully in the country from that point on. It should be noted that the primary reason these refugees enter the United States unlawfully is because the Trump administration is violating the Refugee Act of 1980 by not allowing them to apply for asylum when they arrive at a US port of entry. No other administration has had this problem with refugees unlawfully entering the United States because other administrations followed the law.

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In any case, I suppose this begs the question: Are you in favor of open borders?
To my knowledge no one advocates open borders. Not you, not me, and not the Democrats. Like most Americans I do support a "wall-less" border because a wall is offensive to our national ideology and generally unnecessary for national security.

Here's what I am for.

I'm for following the law that states a refugee arriving at a US port of entry will be allowed to apply for asylum. I'm also for allowing immigration that benefits our economy, immigration based upon close family ties, and immigration to ensure diversity but, like our laws on immigration establish, the highest priority goes to the refugees fleeing tyranny in their native country.

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Most asylum seekers come from Central America (not Mexico, as some believe).

If they are fleeing persecution, the natural place to go would be Mexico--as it is geographically prior to the US.

If they are simply looking for a better life (materially), well, the US cannot take in all who seek that.
The "natural place to go" is the country with the best reputation for freedom and liberty. That's the United States and not Mexico. Their willingness to walk, if necessary, for well over an extra 1,000 miles reflects how much better the reputation for freedom and liberty is in the United States when compared to Mexico.

Please note that the refugees from Central America generally fulfill all of the criteria I've provided for immigration. They're already refugees but they also benefit our economy, they normally bring their children so it's also family based, and they add diversity to our population. They're the Home Run of immigrants to the United States.

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Sanctuary cities, just by definition, place state or local law above federal law.

Are you familiar with the supremacy clause of the US Constitution?
No, it does not place state or local law above federal law. It applies the criteria of "federalism" which was how government was organized in the United States. The federal government is responsible for enforcing federal law (jurisdiction) and the state is responsible for enforcing state/local law (jurisdiction).

You asked me a question about "open borders" so let me respond with a question for you.

Do you support the division of power based upon federalism in the United States or do you support a central government that has all of the power?
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: De Blasio Threatens to Sue if Trump Sends Immigrants to Sanctuary City NYC

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Here is what Wikipedia has to say about the policy, under President Trump:

"In April 2018, Trump signed an executive memorandum [that] directs federal officials to report to him on measures to 'expeditiously end "catch and release" practices'; the memorandum directed officials to produce reports on facilities (such as military bases) that could be used for immigration detention."

The only thing it says about Barack Obama, in this regard, is the following:

"In 2014, Chuck Grassley and other Republican senators introduced legislation to close what they called a 'catch-and-release loophole'; the legislation would reverse the Zadvydas v. Davis decision, allowing DHS to detain "non-removable immigrants" (those whose home countries will not accept their return) for more than six months under certain circumstances."
The Zadvydas v. Davis decision addressed those in detention that are under deportation orders. The granting of temporary asylum pending a final determination by our immigration courts provides protections against deportation so Zadvydas v. Davis is irrelevant to those under protection by our asylum laws.

Overwhelmingly those family units granted temporary asylum status do not represent a threat to our public safety (i.e. they have no criminal records) and do not represent a threat of flight (i.e. they're seeking to stay in the United States, not leave it). There's no justification for detaining them at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
As for "family separation," here are its words:

"On June 20, 2018, Trump bowed to intense political pressure and signed an executive order to reverse the policy [of the original zero tolerance, leading to family separation,] while still maintaining 'zero tolerance' border control by detaining entire families together."
The unlawful crossing of the border became a moot violation of the law once an asylum request was granted. Why was the Trump administration detaining those approved for temporary asylum protection when they weren't subject to deportation and they didn't represent a threat to the public safety or a threat of flight? It was the detention "without cause" for extended periods of time for asylum seekers that have acquired the lawful right to be in the United States regardless of how they entered the country that lead to the family separations.

But this isn't the real problem. The real problem is Trump's opposition to lawful immigration into the United States. Refugees are admitted lawfully into the United States and Trump has slashed the number of those being allowed to apply. In 2018 only about 22,000 refugees from all over the world were allowed to enter the United States. It's not because the CBP can't process the applications but simply because the CBP has been order to not allow lawful entry based upon refugee status.

Oh hell, read about it for yourself.
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/27/68030...gee-admissions
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:32 AM
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Default Re: De Blasio Threatens to Sue if Trump Sends Immigrants to Sanctuary City NYC

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Once their application for asylum is granted how they entered the country becomes moot. They are lawfully in the country from that point on. It should be noted that the primary reason these refugees enter the United States unlawfully is because the Trump administration is violating the Refugee Act of 1980 by not allowing them to apply for asylum when they arrive at a US port of entry. No other administration has had this problem with refugees unlawfully entering the United States because other administrations followed the law.



To my knowledge no one advocates open borders. Not you, not me, and not the Democrats. Like most Americans I do support a "wall-less" border because a wall is offensive to our national ideology and generally unnecessary for national security.

Here's what I am for.

I'm for following the law that states a refugee arriving at a US port of entry will be allowed to apply for asylum. I'm also for allowing immigration that benefits our economy, immigration based upon close family ties, and immigration to ensure diversity but, like our laws on immigration establish, the highest priority goes to the refugees fleeing tyranny in their native country.



The "natural place to go" is the country with the best reputation for freedom and liberty. That's the United States and not Mexico. Their willingness to walk, if necessary, for well over an extra 1,000 miles reflects how much better the reputation for freedom and liberty is in the United States when compared to Mexico.

Please note that the refugees from Central America generally fulfill all of the criteria I've provided for immigration. They're already refugees but they also benefit our economy, they normally bring their children so it's also family based, and they add diversity to our population. They're the Home Run of immigrants to the United States.



No, it does not place state or local law above federal law. It applies the criteria of "federalism" which was how government was organized in the United States. The federal government is responsible for enforcing federal law (jurisdiction) and the state is responsible for enforcing state/local law (jurisdiction).

You asked me a question about "open borders" so let me respond with a question for you.

Do you support the division of power based upon federalism in the United States or do you support a central government that has all of the power?
Once again, you're just babbling. For starters, the refugee act gives the President the right to admit potential refugees. It does not require him to do so. So until the President or his representatives open the doors the US has no real responsibility to this group. So no, President Trump is not violating the act.

The "natural place to go" is not part of the equation. Opinions differ, but in general refugees are getting away from something bad, not looking for a better economic life. Those looking for a better economic life are called immigrants. We deal with immigrants differently. The "natural place to go" is the nearest open door. In the case of Central and South Americans, that would be Mexico. Or possibly other countries like, say, Panama. their willingness to walk an extra thousand miles past several open doors reinforces that point.

Fortunately for the country, you don't get to set the requirements. That would be the President or his delegates.

Trying to place the onus on the Founders is again bogus. The Founders never addressed the immigration or refugee issue. They were all both. There was no issue. Locke has nothing to do with the issue.
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:44 AM
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Default Re: De Blasio Threatens to Sue if Trump Sends Immigrants to Sanctuary City NYC

Do you support the division of power based upon federalism in the United States or do you support a central government that has all of the power?

Answering that question. I support less government. But the Constitution charges the federal government with three functions. Fighting the wars. Facilitating interstate commerce, and protecting the borders. A couple others have since been added. Establishing a national currency being one. But that's actually a commerce issue.
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