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News & Current Events Discuss Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's 'Green New Deal' calls for US to 'upgrade or replace' ever at the General Forum; Originally Posted by ShivaTD For the sake of rough calculations let's over double the cost of the "Plan" to $10 ...

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Old 02-08-2019, 10:48 AM
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Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's 'Green New Deal' calls for US to 'upgrade or replace'

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD
For the sake of rough calculations let's over double the cost of the "Plan" to $10 trillion. Also for the sake of rough calculations let's use an estimate of $20 trillion in annual new wealth creation (annual GDP) for the United States.
What?!?!?!...

Currently, the government takes in less than $4 trillion a year...

...and..."for the sake of rough calculations"...you want us to believe that this will increase FIVE TIMES(!!!!)...PER YEAR(!!!!!!!!!)....under a plan that kills (literally) MILLIONS of jobs?!?!!?...

Thank God I don't don't know your home address...I'd be sending the DEA over...

Hey everyone!..."for the sake of rough calculations", I played middle linebacker for the '85 Bears...
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:53 AM
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Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's 'Green New Deal' calls for US to 'upgrade or replace'

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
What?!?!?!...

Currently, the government takes in less than $4 trillion a year...

...and..."for the sake of rough calculations"...you want us to believe that this will increase FIVE TIMES(!!!!)...PER YEAR(!!!!!!!!!)....under a plan that kills (literally) MILLIONS of jobs?!?!!?...

Thank God I don't don't know your home address...I'd be sending the DEA over...

Hey everyone!..."for the sake of rough calculations", I played middle linebacker for the '85 Bears...
That's nothing. For the sake of rough calculations, I set up an emergency shelter on Mars five years ago.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's 'Green New Deal' calls for US to 'upgrade or replace'

I'm gonna start tellin' chicks I have a 12" pork sword. And when we get home and they see I'm hung like a field mouse I'm gonna tell her that was just a rough calculation.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's 'Green New Deal' calls for US to 'upgrade or replace'

She wants to control:

The places we live - every building in the US updated by mandate.
The food we eat - no more cow farts...
The jobs we work - she's on the record saying government will provide everyone with a job.
The transportation we use - she's on the record saying she wants to get rid of airplanes and cars in favor of transit by train. (why this is better, I'm not sure).

From another thread on health insurance:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenock View Post
Many people are homeless... So we need to have the government provide housing for all. Let's move on from people being able to buy their own homes.

Many people are hungry... So we need to have government provide food for all. Let's move on from people paying for their own food.

Many people are jobless... So we need to have the government provide jobs for all. Let's move on from people having to find their own jobs.

Many people don't have any mode of transportation... So we need to have the government provide transportation for all, we need to move on from people owning their own cars.


You can play that game with ANY commodity or service. How much freedom are you going to give up before you say, enough is enough?


I might have gotten the excuse they would use wrong, but the bottom line is democrats want complete control over our lives and they will NOT stop until they have it. How much freedom are you willing to give up?
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's 'Green New Deal' calls for US to 'upgrade or replace'

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Yes or no answer, please.

Do you support AOC's New Green Deal?
Let's go down the list and see.

1. Upgrade or replace every building in US for state-of-the-art energy efficiency.

Yes. These upgrades pay for themselves over time in cost savings. Most of us have been doing this in our homes already with more efficient appliances and even changing out lightbulbs the LED instead of incandescent bulbs because LED's use about 1/10th of the energy for the same light output. Smart homeowners also review the insulation in their homes and upgrade it because it saves on heating and air conditioning costs.

2. Replace cars, truck and airplanes that rely exclusively on oil based fuels with hybrid electric cars, trucks and airplanes over time.

Yes. I was surprised to learn that hybrid electric aircraft that are more fuel efficient are actually in development right now. My career was in aerospace and I didn't know that Boeing was investing in this technology. This doesn't eliminate the use of oil as a fuel source but it does dramatically reduce the amount of oil based fuels being used.

3. Replace high carbon emission powerplants and nuclear fission powerplants with green energy power plants and nuclear fusion powerplants.

Yes. We could start by immediately banning the use of coal completely and replace it with the less pollution natural gas powerplants because we have excess natural gas. Nuclear fission powerplants can be replaced with safe nuclear fusion powerplants just as soon as commercially viable nuclear fusion is developed.

4. Create millions of family supporting-wage, union jobs.

Yes. The unions were a critical part of the US economy that created the middle class after WW II. Strong unions increase wages and benefits for the workers and if there's any single thing that would Make America Great Again it would be the return to power of the labor unions. Only jobs that receive government funding would be union jobs and I doubt there's millions of them but the "supporting-wage" requirement can apply to any job that receives government funding.

I don't see any "bad" proposals being included so I'd have to say that overall I'm supportive of the initiative. Still some work to do to achieve it, some may take decades to accomplish, and some relies on future technology but I believe in future technology.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's 'Green New Deal' calls for US to 'upgrade or replace'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenock View Post
I might have gotten the excuse they would use wrong, but the bottom line is democrats want complete control over our lives and they will NOT stop until they have it. How much freedom are you willing to give up?
They will not stop at their own peril. And they will lose. No SOB is going to take my freedom away.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's 'Green New Deal' calls for US to 'upgrade or replace'

One thing that scares me 'bout libs is they'll blindly agree with anything an insane elected lib proposes. Never will a lib follower say, "Yeah, that's just crazy and a bad idea." Libs would get behind a proposal for the military to have an army full of Bigfoots if an official proposed it. This thread is a perfect example.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's 'Green New Deal' calls for US to 'upgrade or replace'

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Let's go down the list and see.

1. Upgrade or replace every building in US for state-of-the-art energy efficiency.

Yes. These upgrades pay for themselves over time in cost savings. Most of us have been doing this in our homes already with more efficient appliances and even changing out lightbulbs the LED instead of incandescent bulbs because LED's use about 1/10th of the energy for the same light output. Smart homeowners also review the insulation in their homes and upgrade it because it saves on heating and air conditioning costs.

2. Replace cars, truck and airplanes that rely exclusively on oil based fuels with hybrid electric cars, trucks and airplanes over time.

Yes. I was surprised to learn that hybrid electric aircraft that are more fuel efficient are actually in development right now. My career was in aerospace and I didn't know that Boeing was investing in this technology. This doesn't eliminate the use of oil as a fuel source but it does dramatically reduce the amount of oil based fuels being used.

3. Replace high carbon emission powerplants and nuclear fission powerplants with green energy power plants and nuclear fusion powerplants.

Yes. We could start by immediately banning the use of coal completely and replace it with the less pollution natural gas powerplants because we have excess natural gas. Nuclear fission powerplants can be replaced with safe nuclear fusion powerplants just as soon as commercially viable nuclear fusion is developed.

4. Create millions of family supporting-wage, union jobs.

Yes. The unions were a critical part of the US economy that created the middle class after WW II. Strong unions increase wages and benefits for the workers and if there's any single thing that would Make America Great Again it would be the return to power of the labor unions. Only jobs that receive government funding would be union jobs and I doubt there's millions of them but the "supporting-wage" requirement can apply to any job that receives government funding.

I don't see any "bad" proposals being included so I'd have to say that overall I'm supportive of the initiative. Still some work to do to achieve it, some may take decades to accomplish, and some relies on future technology but I believe in future technology.
I nominate the post above for winner of the Lap Doggie of the Year award.

As for believing in future technology, I hear there is a new research facility recently opened up on Uranus. I might be wrong, though.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:28 AM
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Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's 'Green New Deal' calls for US to 'upgrade or replace'

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Not addressing the specifics of the proposal but the question of funding is answerable.

For the sake of rough calculations let's over double the cost of the "Plan" to $10 trillion. Also for the sake of rough calculations let's use an estimate of $20 trillion in annual new wealth creation (annual GDP) for the United States.

If we spread out funding over ten years then we have $200 trillion worth of wealth being created to fund a $10 trillion expenditure or basically the cost is 5% of the national revenue over that 10 year time period.

Because "green energy" products also pay for themselves over time, such as the reduction in the amount and cost of energy resulting from improving insulation in a building, the eventual costs over time become zero as the investments pay off in reduced energy costs.

So the production of wealth pays for the initial costs which, in turn, reduces the costs of producing the wealth over time.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's 'Green New Deal' calls for US to 'upgrade or replace'

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