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News & Current Events Discuss Trump ends shutdown, signs bill to reopen government at the General Forum; This is only temporary. In 21 days or so it will shut down again unless libs agree for funding of ...

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2019, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Trump ends shutdown, signs bill to reopen government

This is only temporary. In 21 days or so it will shut down again unless libs agree for funding of the wall. After that Trump looks like he may declare a national emergency and fund it himself through the DoD or whatever it is that funds national emergencies. And if that happens then we get the wall and Nancy and Chuck get nothin' Trump offered originally.
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Old 01-27-2019, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: Trump ends shutdown, signs bill to reopen government

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
It's amusing to see the children of the Resistance Corn claim an exclusive franchise on reality as shown by unspecified polls.

https://www.rollcall.com/news/congre...rumps-standing
Real Clear Politics provides information from all of the major polls.
Friday Jan 25th
President Trump
ABC News / Washington Post: Approve 38% Disapprove 58% Spread -20%
Rasmussen Reports: Approve 45% Disapprove 54% Spread -9%
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

President Trump has never had a positive approval rating during any month since he's been in office.

Don't talk polling numbers to those that actually follow the polls. President Trump has been the worst President in history based upon the opinions of the American people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The President made it clear he will invoke a national emergency to build the wall. If Democrats continue to display the same lack of concern for the 800,000 Federal employees and border security as well as the DACA and TPS people they are going to get the worst of both worlds.
The legislation for border security will be a result of a bipartisan committee formed by Republicans from the Senate and Democrats from the House. It will not be partisan and will be based upon the expert testimony from departments and agencies like the Border Patrol.

In the normal course of events the Border Patrol would submit a budget request for those improvements it deems necessary for our safety which would include enhanced barriers, surveillance equipment, manpower, and other important measures that should be taken to secure our borders. They've probably already done this for 2019 and we know one thing for a fact. It doesn't contain "Trump's Wall" as a part of the request.

Trump's Wall isn't supported by any government agency studies that responsible for border security because it's a waste of money and resources that can be used for effective border security.

Congress, in the past, have authorized broad authority to the President in the event of a national emergency but a national emergency doesn't exist at the US-Mexico border. If that emergency existed then the President would have invoked his emergency powers months ago. The fact is that unlawful entry along our border with Mexico is at one of the lowest points in recent history. Illegal entry along our border with Mexico isn't even the primary source of undocumented (illegal) aliens in the United States. Visa overstays from Canada dwarf the number of undocumented (illegal) aliens entering from Mexico. If there's a national emergency (and there's not) then addressing the Canadian visa-overstays would be the focus of the emergency.

If Trump does declare an emergency we can expect two things.

1. It will be challenged in court and Trump will not be able to use that authority to build anything because the courts will stop the spending.

2. Congress, both Democrats and Republicans, will unite to revise the emergency powers of the President to prevent the abuse of power that Trump would be guilty of. We could expect veto-proof legislation that would probably require approval of the emergency by Congress within 60 days of the President declaring an emergency (my guess - not a quote from members of Congress).

Within the short time period Congress will have to act we can expect bipartisan legislation to enhance border security. It won't be a Democrat plan or a Republican plan. It will be a Congressional plan and it will not contain funding for Trump's wall.

The House, controlled by Democrats, will be producing legislation to resolve the DACA, DAPA, and TPS issues and that legislation will be sent to the Senate for a vote. The American people overwhelmingly support the legislation that the House Democrats will produce to provide protections for these three groups.
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Old 01-27-2019, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: Trump ends shutdown, signs bill to reopen government

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Real Clear Politics provides information from all of the major polls.
Friday Jan 25th
President Trump
ABC News / Washington Post: Approve 38% Disapprove 58% Spread -20%
Rasmussen Reports: Approve 45% Disapprove 54% Spread -9%
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

President Trump has never had a positive approval rating during any month since he's been in office.

Don't talk polling numbers to those that actually follow the polls. President Trump has been the worst President in history based upon the opinions of the American people.



The legislation for border security will be a result of a bipartisan committee formed by Republicans from the Senate and Democrats from the House. It will not be partisan and will be based upon the expert testimony from departments and agencies like the Border Patrol.

In the normal course of events the Border Patrol would submit a budget request for those improvements it deems necessary for our safety which would include enhanced barriers, surveillance equipment, manpower, and other important measures that should be taken to secure our borders. They've probably already done this for 2019 and we know one thing for a fact. It doesn't contain "Trump's Wall" as a part of the request.

Trump's Wall isn't supported by any government agency studies that responsible for border security because it's a waste of money and resources that can be used for effective border security.

Congress, in the past, have authorized broad authority to the President in the event of a national emergency but a national emergency doesn't exist at the US-Mexico border. If that emergency existed then the President would have invoked his emergency powers months ago. The fact is that unlawful entry along our border with Mexico is at one of the lowest points in recent history. Illegal entry along our border with Mexico isn't even the primary source of undocumented (illegal) aliens in the United States. Visa overstays from Canada dwarf the number of undocumented (illegal) aliens entering from Mexico. If there's a national emergency (and there's not) then addressing the Canadian visa-overstays would be the focus of the emergency.

If Trump does declare an emergency we can expect two things.

1. It will be challenged in court and Trump will not be able to use that authority to build anything because the courts will stop the spending.

2. Congress, both Democrats and Republicans, will unite to revise the emergency powers of the President to prevent the abuse of power that Trump would be guilty of. We could expect veto-proof legislation that would probably require approval of the emergency by Congress within 60 days of the President declaring an emergency (my guess - not a quote from members of Congress).

Within the short time period Congress will have to act we can expect bipartisan legislation to enhance border security. It won't be a Democrat plan or a Republican plan. It will be a Congressional plan and it will not contain funding for Trump's wall.

The House, controlled by Democrats, will be producing legislation to resolve the DACA, DAPA, and TPS issues and that legislation will be sent to the Senate for a vote. The American people overwhelmingly support the legislation that the House Democrats will produce to provide protections for these three groups.
I lean to believe that Trump will likely close the government again in 3 weeks, if the Democrats do not come up with a solution for funding the wall, and abiding by the recommendations Trump already offered up on DACA. Your use of the word 'caved' is expected, since once again it is hyperbole and lacking in facts.

Read your post again: 'The American people overwhelmingly support the legislation that the House Democrats will produce to provide protections for these three groups'. You are promoting as fact, that there is overwhelming support for something that has not yet been developed, much less presented, and I'd like to see real numbers on that 'overwhelming' while we are at it, because I highly doubt it.
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Old 01-27-2019, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: Trump ends shutdown, signs bill to reopen government

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Real Clear Politics provides information from all of the major polls.
Friday Jan 25th
President Trump
ABC News / Washington Post: Approve 38% Disapprove 58% Spread -20%
Rasmussen Reports: Approve 45% Disapprove 54% Spread -9%
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
In mid-to-late 2010, late 2012 to early 2013, and late 2013, Barack Obama's approval rating was around 40 percent: https://qz.com/889644/obamas-approva...ast-in-charts/

Oh, here is more from The Hill (from about three months ago): https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...ad-of-midterms

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Congress, in the past, have authorized broad authority to the President in the event of a national emergency but a national emergency doesn't exist at the US-Mexico border.
I disagree with your assessment that "a national emergency doesn't exist."

Nonetheless, I do hope that President Trump will refrain from using his power here--an act which would surely be tied up in the courts for several years--for these two reasons:

(1) We conservatives complained--vociferously (and correctly, I believe)--when then-President Obama abused "executive authority" to do those things that he could not get through Congress. It is surely not right for a Republican president to do this, if it is wrong (and I believe that it is) for a Democratic president to do the same.

(2) In the future, a Democratic president (which we will surely have again) might declare it a "national emergency" that we do not have UHC; or that we do not have the sort of pristine environment that ecozealots wish--or...well, something--and force us to bend to his (or her) will, by executive fiat.

In other words, we would be moving in the direction of authoritarianism.
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Old 01-28-2019, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: Trump ends shutdown, signs bill to reopen government

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
I lean to believe that Trump will likely close the government again in 3 weeks, if the Democrats do not come up with a solution for funding the wall, and abiding by the recommendations Trump already offered up on DACA. Your use of the word 'caved' is expected, since once again it is hyperbole and lacking in facts.
I tend to agree with the opinion that Trump will close the government down again over his demand for a wall. There's really not much separation between Democrats and Republicans when it comes to border security. Both support the recommendations from CBP that would improve border security. What I've seen CBP prioritize is: A) More CBP agents (that the GAO is questioning because of the lowest illegal border crossing numbers in ages); B) More electronic detection and surveillance equipment, and: D) limited additional physical barriers at strategic locations along the US-Mexico border.

The only example of what the CBP means by limited strategic physical barriers (fencing) is the request by the San Diego CBP to add five miles of fencing to the existing fencing they have. The cost estimate provided by the Corps of Engineers was $1.5 million per mile for a total of $7,5 million to meet the San Diego CBP's request for more fencing. I don't have any information on the other CBP sections along the US-Mexico border but it's unlikely that all of the requests would equal more than a few hundred million dollars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Read your post again: 'The American people overwhelmingly support the legislation that the House Democrats will produce to provide protections for these three groups'. You are promoting as fact, that there is overwhelming support for something that has not yet been developed, much less presented, and I'd like to see real numbers on that 'overwhelming' while we are at it, because I highly doubt it.
This is an extrapolation of the support for DACA protections from last year.

Quote:
An overwhelming majority of Americans supports legal protections for certain undocumented immigrants brought to the U.S. as children, according to a new CBS News poll.

According to the survey, almost 9 in 10 respondents — 87 percent — said they believe that the so-called Dreamers should be allowed to remain in the U.S. if they meet certain requirements, such as working or going to school.
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...pients-to-stay

87% is overwhelming support.

I don't have poll numbers for DAPA but the outrage at deporting a person that had lived and worked in the United States for more than a decade, that was married to a US citizen and/or that had children that were US citizens, was widespread. Families were literally torn apart when the mother or father that had lived and worked here, paying taxes like everyone else, was suddenly deported for no other reason than the minor misdemeanor of not having current documents authorizing them to be in the country. Prosecutorial discretion is first and foremost about not creating an injustice in the enforcement of the law and deporting people that have been law abiding for a decade or more when the family were US citizens was a gross injustice.

TPS (Temporary Protective Status) is a special class where it's believed that the cause the protection is required will be short-lived. A country in turmoil will result in the US granting TPS status to many from that nation. That's all well and good and if the problem in their native country resolves itself in a year or two it makes sense for them to return. If that doesn't happen, if it's been five, ten, or twenty years then they've already immigrated to the United States and become Americans. You don't send someone back to a country that they haven't lived in for years after they've established new roots here. That's just plain stupid.

Americans are compassionate people as we reflect upon the belief that DACA should be allowed to stay and become citizens. I've just extrapolated that belief to cover similar situations.
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Old 01-28-2019, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: Trump ends shutdown, signs bill to reopen government

Scary morons like this can vote. This is a win for the MSM - Ya bad-mouth and hate on Trump enough and peeps will begin to believe everything is his fault.

Mouth-breathers.

WATCH: College students blame Trump for shutdown. But their tune changes after learning crucial fact.

While the partial government shutdown was in effect, Campus Reform's Cabot Phillips visited George Mason University in northern Virginia to get impressions from students.

Not surprisingly, most of the students who took part in the video interview blamed President Donald Trump for the shutdown, which at that point was the longest in American history.

Then Phillips added a twist.

Likely banking on students not knowing that Trump already offered Democrats a deal to end the shutdown — which included extended protections for Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, $800 million in humanitarian aid, and more border agents and immigration judges — Phillips posed that very scenario, asking students if Democrats should "compromise on their end" if Trump were to make the latter concessions.

They answered with a resounding yes.

Oops

Phillips then informed students that Trump did make that very offer with those very concessions. And wouldn't you know Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi rejected it?

Upon learning this crucial fact, the surprised students were then singing a different tune — and agreed Democrats should come to the negotiating table with Trump rather than letting the shutdown continue.

"It was the wrong move for [Pelosi] to turn it down," one student said.

Check out the clip:

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Old 01-28-2019, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: Trump ends shutdown, signs bill to reopen government

Glad to see that folks are getting pay checks again.....


Using them as political pawns is the ugly side of American politics...
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Old 01-29-2019, 07:19 AM
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Default Re: Trump ends shutdown, signs bill to reopen government

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
I tend to agree with the opinion that Trump will close the government down again over his demand for a wall. There's really not much separation between Democrats and Republicans when it comes to border security. Both support the recommendations from CBP that would improve border security. What I've seen CBP prioritize is: A) More CBP agents (that the GAO is questioning because of the lowest illegal border crossing numbers in ages); B) More electronic detection and surveillance equipment, and: D) limited additional physical barriers at strategic locations along the US-Mexico border.

The only example of what the CBP means by limited strategic physical barriers (fencing) is the request by the San Diego CBP to add five miles of fencing to the existing fencing they have. The cost estimate provided by the Corps of Engineers was $1.5 million per mile for a total of $7,5 million to meet the San Diego CBP's request for more fencing. I don't have any information on the other CBP sections along the US-Mexico border but it's unlikely that all of the requests would equal more than a few hundred million dollars.



This is an extrapolation of the support for DACA protections from last year.



https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...pients-to-stay

87% is overwhelming support.

I don't have poll numbers for DAPA but the outrage at deporting a person that had lived and worked in the United States for more than a decade, that was married to a US citizen and/or that had children that were US citizens, was widespread. Families were literally torn apart when the mother or father that had lived and worked here, paying taxes like everyone else, was suddenly deported for no other reason than the minor misdemeanor of not having current documents authorizing them to be in the country. Prosecutorial discretion is first and foremost about not creating an injustice in the enforcement of the law and deporting people that have been law abiding for a decade or more when the family were US citizens was a gross injustice.

TPS (Temporary Protective Status) is a special class where it's believed that the cause the protection is required will be short-lived. A country in turmoil will result in the US granting TPS status to many from that nation. That's all well and good and if the problem in their native country resolves itself in a year or two it makes sense for them to return. If that doesn't happen, if it's been five, ten, or twenty years then they've already immigrated to the United States and become Americans. You don't send someone back to a country that they haven't lived in for years after they've established new roots here. That's just plain stupid.

Americans are compassionate people as we reflect upon the belief that DACA should be allowed to stay and become citizens. I've just extrapolated that belief to cover similar situations.
Exactly what is 'wrong' with extrapolating on a program that already exists?

You use a blog as valid proof? I don't care what side it's from, but a blog?

I've offered up this statement before, and do again... DACA who are over the age of 23 have had 5 years after reaching their adult status. If they have not attempted (a good faith attempt) to obtain legal status, then they should be deported. They have had what, 6 years or more, since DACA was instituted. The age of 23 also lets them complete whatever education the taxpayers have paid for.

It's time they stood up as 'legal' citizens, or leave.

Oh, and you don't come to the United States to become an American, you come to the United States to be a citizen.
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: Trump ends shutdown, signs bill to reopen government

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hill blog
An overwhelming majority of Americans supports legal protections for certain undocumented immigrants brought to the U.S. as children, according to a new CBS News poll.

According to the survey, almost 9 in 10 respondents — 87 percent — said they believe that the so-called Dreamers should be allowed to remain in the U.S. if they meet certain requirements, such as working or going to school. [Bold added]
Apparently, the author is not especially good at math--even basic math.

Yes, 87 percent is an overwhelming majority--no argument there--but it is certainly not "9 in 10."

In fact, it is barely under 7 in 8.
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: Trump ends shutdown, signs bill to reopen government

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
I tend to agree with the opinion that Trump will close the government down again over his demand for a wall.
I truly hope that you are correct. But I am beginning to doubt it--especially since numerous Republicans were on the verge of to defecting, prior to his actually re-opening the government.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
There's really not much separation between Democrats and Republicans when it comes to border security. Both support the recommendations from CBP that would improve border security. What I've seen CBP prioritize is: A) More CBP agents (that the GAO is questioning because of the lowest illegal border crossing numbers in ages); B) More electronic detection and surveillance equipment, and: D) limited additional physical barriers at strategic locations along the US-Mexico border.
Again, Democrats are okay with some (amorphous) sort of "border security"--just not the wall.

This is much more about sticking a finger in the eye of President Trump--and denying him a victory, that he could cite in 2020--than it is about any principled objection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
I don't have poll numbers for DAPA but the outrage at deporting a person that had lived and worked in the United States for more than a decade, that was married to a US citizen and/or that had children that were US citizens, was widespread. Families were literally torn apart when the mother or father that had lived and worked here, paying taxes like everyone else, was suddenly deported for no other reason than the minor misdemeanor of not having current documents authorizing them to be in the country. Prosecutorial discretion is first and foremost about not creating an injustice in the enforcement of the law and deporting people that have been law abiding for a decade or more when the family were US citizens was a gross injustice.
You describe it as a "minor misdemeanor" for someone to invade our country.

But what if tens of millions did so?

Do you really believe that our country could absorb an infinite amount of illegal immigrants?

And do you believe that our country--unlike any other country in the world--should have no right (at least, no moral right) to enforce its own borders?

These are serious questions.

The left seems to believe in some sort of "compassion"--but without any serious thought behind it..
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