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ShivaTD 01-11-2019 01:02 PM

Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

The partial government shutdown enters its 21st day, tying a record for the longest lapse in funding.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/gove...all-fight.html

So where are we at and what are the possible/probable outcomes.

President Trump is intransient in his demand for a border wall or fence built of concrete or steel along the US-Mexico border. If Congress won't fund it then he's threatened to declare an emergency and use funds either from the US military, FEMA allocated funds for disasters, or perhaps both.

Democrats are never in 100 years going to provide funds for Trump's wall and they don't have to. They have the support of the American people and no reason to capitulate to the demands of President Trump that they were, for the most part, elected to oppose on stupid crap like this. The Democrats are not being blamed for the shutdown.

Republicans are between a rock and a hard place. They know that the Democrats in the House will never approve funding for the wall. The also know that Democrats overwhelmingly support improving border security but Trump won't talk "border security" because he's hung up on the Wall that he'll never get funding for. Mitch McConnell, that's been missing in action, refuses to put the House bill that funds the government to a vote knowing it will pass without any problem in the Senate.

Republicans also know that they're being blamed for the shutdown along with President Trump. Unlike Trump they also know the damage to the country that the shutdown is causing and that if the damage is severe enough in 2020 a Republican won't even be electable in a bright red state.

I'm seeing two things.

Yes, Trump could declare an emergency (when one doesn't exist) and get away with it. It takes a veto-proof joint resolution to stop him from stealing money from the military and/or taking money for people suffering some of the worst natural disasters in our history but it's a bad move. It would allow the next president, a Democrat, to declare states of emergency over things like gun deaths and then confiscate firearms with impunity. Republicans are crazy of they support Trump declaring an emergency because the payback would shake their very core. Of course whatever Trump accomplished on the wall would be quickly and inexpensively gone with a few sticks of dynamite placed along it.

The Republican lawmakers really have no options. They can't stick with Trump and they know that the funding bill will never include money for the wall.

So why are they, or more specifically Mitch McConnell, holding out? Trump can veto legislation of the Senate passes the House funding but that just kicks it back to Congress where Republicans are going to have to join the Democrats and make the funding legislation veto proof with 2/3rds supporting it. Why not do it now and be heroes as opposed to villains in the coming days.

GetAClue 01-11-2019 01:58 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

The partial government shutdown enters its 21st day, tying a record for the longest lapse in funding.
Good. Let's hope that Trump prevails and secures the necessary funds to secure our southern border in spite of the ever changing positions of the Democratic party leaders.

Dog Man 01-11-2019 03:43 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
* Breaking news * Thousand of people dying in the streets because of Government shutdown.

ShivaTD 01-11-2019 05:20 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GetAClue (Post 958775)
Good. Let's hope that Trump prevails and secures the necessary funds to secure our southern border in spite of the ever changing positions of the Democratic party leaders.

Trump can have the funds to secure the Southern border if he's willing to accept a bipartisan commission's recommendation on how best to provide that security. His instance upon a wall without any studies done to indicate it's effectiveness is plain stupid.

Trump is the one that doesn't want to talk effective border security, not the Democrats and not the Republicans in Congress. Trump's position is that if doesn't include his wall it doesn't provide border security and that's nonsense.

Trump likes to use the analogy of the wheel that's been around forever but he forgets that today we have mag-lift technology used on high speed trains that's far more efficient at moving mass over distance that the wheel. We have airplanes to cover distance far faster than the wheel. The wheel is old and proven technology but it's not as good as new technology when it comes to moving things.

Historically "walls" have never stopped people. The Great Wall of China was a colossal failure. Hadrian's wall in Great Britain never stopped people from crossing from the North into the South. The Berlin Wall did not prevent people from going from E Berlin into W Berlin.

Hairy Jello 01-13-2019 01:25 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Government shutdown? Lobbyist party!

Meanwhile Trump has been in the WH almost non-stop waitin' for libs to come to the table with a serious proposal.

Any word on how Pelosi's Hawaiian vacation went?

Dems party with more than 100 lobbyists in Puerto Rico despite partial government shutdown

Despite the partial government shutdown, which is now the longest in United States history, 30 Democratic congressional lawmakers flew to Puerto Rico this weekend for a winter retreat to vacation and meet with more than 100 lobbyists and corporate executives.

What are the details?

According to the Washington Examiner, 30 Democratic lawmakers — including their families and chiefs of staff — flew to Puerto Rico on a chartered 737 jet on Friday, where they planned to meet with 109 lobbyists and corporate executives, attend several parties, and see a special showing of the hit Broadway play "Hamilton."

Those attending the retreat, hosted by the Congressional Hispanic Caucus BOLD PAC, also partook in some business, including attending a roundtable to discuss Hurricane Maria cleanup.

"We are excited for you to join us for CHC BOLD PAC's 2019 Winter Retreat in San Juan, Puerto Rico! Each year, this retreat serves as a way for our CHC BOLD PAC Members and friends in the D.C. community to come together to escape the cold and discuss our shared priorities for a stronger and more prosperous country," a memo for the event said, according to the Examiner.

Lobbyists and corporate executives from Facebook, Amazon, Comcast, R.J. Reynolds, Verizon, Microsoft, Intel, and PhRMA were in attendance, in addition to representatives from major unions like the National Education Association.

Officials from BOLD PAC did not reveal which lawmakers made the trip. But, Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) was spotted on a beach by a Fox News producer on Saturday:

Retreat participants stayed at a seaside resort where rooms go for $429 per night, the Examiner reported.

Additionally, the chartered jet carried just 250 pounds of donated medical supplies.

What did the PAC say?

Given the situation in Washington, the trip has garnered negative attention. However, BOLD PAC chairman Rep. Tony Cardenas (D-Calif.) said the criticism is unfounded.

He told the Examiner in a statement:

House Democrats voted to open the government multiple times; sadly, Senate Republicans and President Trump are continuing to put partisan politics ahead of our country, forcing the government to remain shut down. As our Bold PAC members make their way to Puerto Rico for this important weekend — the largest contingency of House Democrats to visit Puerto Rico where they'll be hearing from Commonwealth and local elected officials about the ongoing recovery efforts — we will be closely monitoring the situation in Washington. If there is any progress by Senate Republicans or the White House to reopen the federal government, then we will act accordingly.

This gathering was planned months before Trump decided to shut down the federal government for his unnecessary and costly border wall. The purpose of hosting Bold PAC's retreat in Puerto Rico is to see and hear from the more than 3.5 million American citizens who have been working tirelessly to rebuild their lives on the Island after Hurricane Maria. This remains a national priority, and it is necessary for us to be there and honor our fellow American children, seniors, veterans, men and women.

Lawmakers are expected to return Monday evening.

FrancSevin 01-14-2019 08:58 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
President Trump is standing on Principle.
The Democrats are standing on beaches in Puerto Rico and Hawaii.

He owns this. They own nothing, including any sense of responsibility for their constituents, much less the government employees who are not being paid.


For years, both sides have promised "comprehensive" immigration reform which included a hardened border,,,;WALLS and Technology. From Bush 41 'til now...... nothing! We finally have a President who will hold them to it.

The longer this goes, the more the people suffer, the better he looks.

Dog Man 01-14-2019 10:43 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FrancSevin (Post 958994)
President Trump is standing on Principle.
The Democrats are standing on beaches in Puerto Rico and Hawaii.

He owns this. They own nothing, including any sense of responsibility for their constituents, much less the government employees who are not being paid.


For years, both sides have promised "comprehensive" immigration reform which included a hardened border,,,;WALLS and Technology. From Bush 41 'til now...... nothing! We finally have a President who will hold them to it.

The longer this goes, the more the people suffer, the better he looks.

Democrats hate it when promises are kept, and the people get what they want. That's is not how they want the government to run. They prefer empty, "feel good" promises, that are never kept.

lurch907 01-14-2019 11:08 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShivaTD (Post 958797)
Historically "walls" have never stopped people.

I scaled your rambling post down to the point, however the point is wrong. Ask Israel. Trump: Is a Border Wall Effective? Ask Israel | CBN News

FrancSevin 01-14-2019 11:13 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog Man (Post 959000)
Democrats hate it when promises are kept, and the people get what they want. That's is not how they want the government to run. They prefer empty, "feel good" promises, that are never kept.

Problems are the source of campaign promises. They are not solved by the government because they want us to believe only government can fix the problems.

They prefer to have us believe we need them.

FrancSevin 01-14-2019 11:30 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lurch907 (Post 959002)
I scaled your rambling post down to the point, however the point is wrong. Ask Israel. Trump: Is a Border Wall Effective? Ask Israel | CBN News

Walls do not STOP armies intent on gaining access. But they do impede them. What is inside must be worth the price paid to breach the defenses.

As you point out Walls do work. I have yet to see anyone apposed to show that they live without them, or fences or doors and windows with locks on them.

Perhaps ShivaT can prove me wrong by example.

Constant_Slothrop 01-14-2019 11:31 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog Man (Post 959000)
Democrats hate it when promises are kept, and the people get what they want. That's is not how they want the government to run. They prefer empty, "feel good" promises, that are never kept.

Well, that's good. If Trump's keeping his promise, that must mean that Mexico is funding the wall and we can end this shutdown.

FrancSevin 01-14-2019 11:46 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lurch907 (Post 959002)
I scaled your rambling post down to the point, however the point is wrong. Ask Israel. Trump: Is a Border Wall Effective? Ask Israel | CBN News

Walls do not STOP armies intent on gaining access. But they do impede them. What is inside must be worth the price paid to breach the defenses.

As you point out Walls do work. I have yet to see anyone apposed to the Southern wall system show that they themselves live without them, or fences or doors and windows with locks on them.

Perhaps ShivaT can prove me wrong by example.

GetAClue 01-14-2019 11:50 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FrancSevin (Post 959009)
Walls do not STOP armies intent on gaining access. But they do impede them. What is inside must be worth the price paid to breach the defenses.

As you point out Walls do work. I have yet to see anyone apposed to the Southern wall system show that they themselves live without them, or fences or doors and windows with locks on them.

Perhaps ShivaT can prove me wrong by example.

You won't get any of our resident lefties to admit to anything that would show support for a position that Trump has taken. If he came out and stated that water was wet, they would argue until they were blue in the face that he was lying and that water was in fact dry. That is what it takes to be a liberal/progressive these days. Their anger at Trump beating Hillary in the election, supersedes any logical thought.

FrancSevin 01-14-2019 11:51 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop (Post 959006)
Well, that's good. If Trump's keeping his promise, that must mean that Mexico is funding the wall and we can end this shutdown.

A nonsensical statement which does nothing to prove the structure should not be built.

I have looked everywhere and have yet to find where candidate Trump said Mexico would "write a check." Even if they did, it would be backed in some fashion by USA dollars, The left would be quick to point that out ,,,; so..?

FrancSevin 01-14-2019 11:53 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GetAClue (Post 959011)
You won't get any of our resident lefties to admit to anything that would show support for a position that Trump has taken. If he came out and stated that water was wet, they would argue until they were blue in the face that he was lying and that water was in fact dry. That is what it takes to be a liberal/progressive these days. Their anger at Trump beating Hillary in the election, supersedes any logical thought.

Actually the left would divert the conversation and claim that water was actually blue. Then call conservatives incensitive racists for not noticing.

Constant_Slothrop 01-14-2019 12:32 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FrancSevin (Post 959012)
A nonsensical statement which does nothing to prove the structure should not be built.

I have looked everywhere and have yet to find where candidate Trump said Mexico would "write a check." Even if they did, it would be backed in some fashion by USA dollars, The left would be quick to point that out ,,,; so..?

When Trump said that Mexico would make a “one-time payment of $5-10 billion,” he might have meant wire transfer instead of check, so I guess you’re technically correct.

lurch907 01-14-2019 12:48 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop (Post 959020)
When Trump said that Mexico would make a “one-time payment of $5-10 billion,” he might have meant wire transfer instead of check, so I guess you’re technically correct.

Did you read what you posted? President Trump didn't say "Mexico will make a one time payment of 5-10 billion". He said they would if they want to keep $24 billion a year flowing across the border.
Also, can't help but notice you cut off the part where he explains several ways to compel Mexico to pay for the wall.
Your posts on this subject are rapidly moving from willful ignorance to bald-faced lies.

Constant_Slothrop 01-14-2019 01:03 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lurch907 (Post 959021)
Did you read what you posted? President Trump didn't say "Mexico will make a one time payment of 5-10 billion". He said they would if they want to keep $24 billion a year flowing across the border.
Also, can't help but notice you cut off the part where he explains several ways to compel Mexico to pay for the wall.
Your posts on this subject are rapidly moving from willful ignorance to bald-faced lies.

No, I saw it. Trump listed several ways that he would put pressure on Mexico to force them to make a direct payment of $5-10 billion for the wall. When’s that going to happen?

cnredd 01-14-2019 02:29 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop (Post 959020)
When Trump said that Mexico would make a “one-time payment of $5-10 billion,” he might have meant wire transfer instead of check, so I guess you’re technically correct.

Did you bother to read the very next sentence?...

"There are many way to compel Mexico to pay for the wall including the following:"

He didn't say "Mexico WILL make a one-time payment"...:no

He said "Here are some ways to COMPEL Mexico to make a one-time payment."...:yes

Constant_Slothrop 01-14-2019 02:31 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd (Post 959027)
Did you bother to read the very next sentence?...

"There are many way to compel Mexico to pay for the wall including the following:"

He didn't say "Mexico WILL make a one-time payment"...:no

He said "Here are some ways to COMPEL Mexico to make a one-time payment."...:yes

Well, then why is he holding the US hostage instead of “compelling” Mexico to make that payment?

cnredd 01-14-2019 02:57 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop (Post 959028)
Well, then why is he holding the US hostage instead of “compelling” Mexico to make that payment?

First, we don't know what's going on in the background...

Secondly, let's skip this immature "holding the country hostage" bullsh*t...Just because the media and Democrat leaders got together and decided to make this their narrative doesn't mean you have to follow like a lemming...:(

Dog Man 01-14-2019 03:17 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd (Post 959029)
First, we don't know what's going on in the background...

Secondly, let's skip this immature "holding the country hostage" bullsh*t...Just because the media and Democrat leaders got together and decided to make this their narrative doesn't mean you have to follow like a lemming...:(

But Redd, don't you know that Liberals across the country are suffering immensely due to Trump? Their lives are in utter shambles, and many may never recover. :cry:bigcry

lurch907 01-14-2019 03:46 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop (Post 959024)
No, I saw it. Trump listed several ways that he would put pressure on Mexico to force them to make a direct payment of $5-10 billion for the wall. When’s that going to happen?

To this point you haven't shown where he actually said that. All you have done is post part of letter by candidate Trump and blatantly misquoted it.
So, can you show us where President Trump claimed Mexico would "make a direct payment of $5-10 billion for the wall."? Or are we to assume you're lying.

Dog Man 01-14-2019 03:55 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop (Post 959028)
Well, then why is he holding the US hostage instead of “compelling” Mexico to make that payment?

I want to be the first to say that I am sorry for the way Trump has ruined your life.

I hope some day you are able to climb out of the utter despair that Trump has forced upon you. I also hope your Liberal family and friends will some day be able to get their lives back on track.

It's obvious that only Republicans are benefiting from the booming economy, and that most Liberals are out of work and living on Ramen noodles until another Messiah gets elected to pull them out of their despicable predicament.

Have you tried praying? It always works for me. But you can't just say it, you have to believe it.

GetAClue 01-15-2019 07:45 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog Man (Post 959040)
I want to be the first to say that I am sorry for the way Trump has ruined your life.

I hope some day you are able to climb out of the utter despair that Trump has forced upon you. I also hope your Liberal family and friends will some day be able to get their lives back on track.

It's obvious that only Republicans are benefiting from the booming economy, and that most Liberals are out of work and living on Ramen noodles until another Messiah gets elected to pull them out of their despicable predicament.

Have you tried praying? It always works for me. But you can't just say it, you have to believe it.

Most liberals that I know, pray to the DNC or Obama as they believe either or both are gods. It's no wonder they get no results.

AZRWinger 01-15-2019 08:24 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop (Post 959006)
Well, that's good. If Trump's keeping his promise, that must mean that Mexico is funding the wall and we can end this shutdown.

Let's apply the same approach to Mexico paying for the wall as Democrats are to securing the border. Democrats should vote to fund the wall and the other border security measures in return for Republican promises that Mexico will be made to pay for it. We are supposed to take Democrats at their word they support securing the border so why would there be any doubt the promise Mexico will pay for the wall? ;)

Constant_Slothrop 01-15-2019 09:48 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog Man (Post 959040)
I want to be the first to say that I am sorry for the way Trump has ruined your life.

I hope some day you are able to climb out of the utter despair that Trump has forced upon you. I also hope your Liberal family and friends will some day be able to get their lives back on track.

It's obvious that only Republicans are benefiting from the booming economy, and that most Liberals are out of work and living on Ramen noodles until another Messiah gets elected to pull them out of their despicable predicament.

Have you tried praying? It always works for me. But you can't just say it, you have to believe it.

Thanks, but I’m am atheist. The election of Trump as president is pretty clear proof that there is no god.

Dog Man 01-15-2019 10:17 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop (Post 959106)
Thanks, but I’m am atheist. The election of Trump as president is pretty clear proof that there is no god.

I kind of thought you were, it figures that you do not believe in anything.

I would guess that you believe in fate only. With faith you are able to control your destiny. I guess your faith is controlled by politics. Just remember, that is also your fate.

ShivaTD 01-15-2019 11:10 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lurch907 (Post 959002)
I scaled your rambling post down to the point, however the point is wrong. Ask Israel. Trump: Is a Border Wall Effective? Ask Israel | CBN News

Is it the fence (not wall) along Israel's Southern border that's effective or the 10 Border Police plus volunteer border patrol agents PER MILE that are effective along this 150 mile stretch of Israeli border.

Of note we already have almost 700 miles of vehicle and pedestrian fencing along our Southern boarder where studies established it would be effective. There are no studies that support fencing along all of our border with Mexico, about half of which is privately owned, that Trump has proposed.

Simple question:

Should the Congress back Trump's $70 billion "wall" with an initial down payment of $5.7 billion for 2019 or should Congress take the time to study the most cost effective means of providing border security and provide funding for that?

lurch907 01-15-2019 11:43 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShivaTD (Post 959115)
Is it the fence (not wall) along Israel's Southern border that's effective or the 10 Border Police plus volunteer border patrol agents PER MILE that are effective along this 150 mile stretch of Israeli border.

It's a wall, called a wall several times by the people who built it.
Do you have a link to back up your "10 Border Police plus volunteer border patrol agents PER MILE" statement or is this just more of you posting what you want to be true?

Quote:

Should the Congress back Trump's $70 billion "wall" with an initial down payment of $5.7 billion for 2019 or should Congress take the time to study the most cost effective means of providing border security and provide funding for that?
You have been provided with evidence of a border wall's effectiveness by myself and other in different threads, you of course ignored them.

What do you think of the overwhelming support of a border wall by those charged with protecting our border, the boots on the ground border agents?

GetAClue 01-15-2019 11:47 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShivaTD (Post 959115)
Should the Congress back Trump's $70 billion "wall" with an initial down payment of $5.7 billion for 2019 or should Congress take the time to study the most cost effective means of providing border security and provide funding for that?

How much time does Congress need? We've had this problem for well over 30 years. The promised Reagan to support border security in exchange for amnesty for 3 million illegals over 30 years ago, but reneged on the promise then. How much more time do they need?

Face it, that is just another way to say "We're not really interested in securing our border, we'll just continue to give lip service to it."

Hairy Jello 01-15-2019 11:56 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Looks like libs are gonna be stubborn and keep the government shutdown goin' over their refusal to crack down on illegal immigration. All this over a tiny fraction of our national budget.

The fact libs are so adamantly against the wall tells ya how effective they know it would be. That's why they're against it; they know it'll work. Trump has been in the WH since all this went down waitin' for libs to come to the table and negotiate but instead they wanna fly around the world on vacations hangin' out with rich donors.

Democrats boycott White House border security meeting

saltwn 01-15-2019 05:28 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShivaTD (Post 958769)
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/gove...all-fight.html

So where are we at and what are the possible/probable outcomes.

President Trump is intransient in his demand for a border wall or fence built of concrete or steel along the US-Mexico border. If Congress won't fund it then he's threatened to declare an emergency and use funds either from the US military, FEMA allocated funds for disasters, or perhaps both.

Democrats are never in 100 years going to provide funds for Trump's wall and they don't have to. They have the support of the American people and no reason to capitulate to the demands of President Trump that they were, for the most part, elected to oppose on stupid crap like this. The Democrats are not being blamed for the shutdown.

Republicans are between a rock and a hard place. They know that the Democrats in the House will never approve funding for the wall. The also know that Democrats overwhelmingly support improving border security but Trump won't talk "border security" because he's hung up on the Wall that he'll never get funding for. Mitch McConnell, that's been missing in action, refuses to put the House bill that funds the government to a vote knowing it will pass without any problem in the Senate.

Republicans also know that they're being blamed for the shutdown along with President Trump. Unlike Trump they also know the damage to the country that the shutdown is causing and that if the damage is severe enough in 2020 a Republican won't even be electable in a bright red state.

I'm seeing two things.

Yes, Trump could declare an emergency (when one doesn't exist) and get away with it. It takes a veto-proof joint resolution to stop him from stealing money from the military and/or taking money for people suffering some of the worst natural disasters in our history but it's a bad move. It would allow the next president, a Democrat, to declare states of emergency over things like gun deaths and then confiscate firearms with impunity. Republicans are crazy of they support Trump declaring an emergency because the payback would shake their very core. Of course whatever Trump accomplished on the wall would be quickly and inexpensively gone with a few sticks of dynamite placed along it.

The Republican lawmakers really have no options. They can't stick with Trump and they know that the funding bill will never include money for the wall.

So why are they, or more specifically Mitch McConnell, holding out? Trump can veto legislation of the Senate passes the House funding but that just kicks it back to Congress where Republicans are going to have to join the Democrats and make the funding legislation veto proof with 2/3rds supporting it. Why not do it now and be heroes as opposed to villains in the coming days.

Trump doesn't give a spit about working people. He is politically motivated. Period.

GetAClue 01-16-2019 06:18 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn (Post 959172)
Trump doesn't give a spit about working people. He is politically motivated. Period.

You really should try posting your opinion more often and leave facts aside. Open up and tell us how you feel. After all, that why this forum exists, facts be damned. :sar3

Dog Man 01-16-2019 11:13 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn (Post 959172)
Trump doesn't give a spit about working people. He is politically motivated. Period.

So who is benefitting from all this work going on? Politicians?

Why is Trump politically motivated? I thought the left hated him because he wasn't a politician......

ShivaTD 01-16-2019 11:45 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lurch907 (Post 959121)
What do you think of the overwhelming support of a border wall by those charged with protecting our border, the boots on the ground border agents?

The "Boots on the ground" Border Patrol agents don't endorse Trump's vision of a wall along the US-Mexican border based upon a poll of members of the Border Patrol Union in March of 2017.

Quote:

Border Patrol union: US-Mexico border wall needed only in 'strategic locations

The leader of the union representing U.S. Border Patrol agents says there doesn’t need to be a full wall along the United States-Mexico border. Instead, he argues, there needs to be a barrier in “strategic locations.”

“We don’t need a great wall of the United States. We do not need 2,000 miles of border wall. I will tell you, however, that a wall in strategic locations is absolutely necessary,” Brandon Judd, president of the National Border Patrol Council, said, ABC News reported.

The union president did, however, admit that the current wall — which is made largely of fencing — “can be defeated” in its present state, noting that he has spent time locating holes in the southwestern border.

Judd shared his analysis during a Senate hearing on staffing issues for Border Patrol, Customs and Border Protection, and Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

“If we do a wall and we do it properly on the border, we can, in fact, effectuate a better arrest rate and we can, in fact, secure the border,” Judd continued. “Before we do that, we have to address the current issues that we have.”

Ron Vitiello, who was sworn-in as Border Patrol chief last week, told ABC that the No. 1 priority should be upping the number of boots on the ground because “somebody has to arrest the people who are going to continue to attempt to enter, even if there is a border wall.”

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...egic-locations

So the No. 1 priority for the Border Patrol is more "Boots on the Ground" because without the boots on the ground the wall/fence is useless. Next is to identify those strategic locations along the US-Mexico border where additionally fencing (or a wall) would be advantageous for enforcement.

Democrats are not opposed to additional physical barriers such as the limited use of walls or fencing in strategic locations along the border like the 700 miles of vehicle and pedestrian fencing they authorized in 2006 if it's based upon the expert advice of those involved in border security. Along with funding the government the Democrats have been calling for exactly that. They want experts on border security to review and provide the recommendations that Republicans and Democrats need before authorizing improvements to our border security.


Democrats not going to support some hair-brained political idea by President Trump that he used in his campaign as an appeal to xenophobic Americans as a basis for funding anything. Not even the Border Patrol endorses Trump's vision of a wall along the entire US-Mexico border because that expenditure would take funds from providing more boots on the ground and wouldn't be effective because under no circumstances will there ever be enough boots on the ground on the US side of the border to back up Trump's 2,000 mile wall.

As an expert in crisis management explained the Democrats hold the upper hand. They've provided legislation to fund the government and end the shutdown as well as the proposal to improve border security based upon the advice of experts. They have the support of the American people and have no reason to change their position(s).

President Trump is responsible for the shutdown and could end it tomorrow by placing border security ahead of his demands for a wall.

Republicans in Congress can also end the shutdown tomorrow by simply supporting veto-proof legislation that funds the government but that doesn't include funding for Trump's wall. The Senate previously passed this type of legislation unanimously in December.

A crisis is coming, make no mistake about it, and either Trump or the Congressional Republicans are going to be held accountable for that crisis. They'll also be the one's that have to cave-in to the Democrats to end the crisis.

When you know a crisis is coming, and that you're the one that will have to end the crisis even if it's not what you want to do, then you're better off doing what needs to be done today instead of waiting for the crisis to actually occur.

There will be no funding for Trump's wall. Get used to it.

lurch907 01-17-2019 11:50 AM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShivaTD (Post 959271)
The "Boots on the ground" Border Patrol agents don't endorse Trump's vision of a wall along the US-Mexican border based upon a poll of members of the Border Patrol Union in March of 2017.


https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...egic-locations

So the No. 1 priority for the Border Patrol is more "Boots on the Ground" because without the boots on the ground the wall/fence is useless. Next is to identify those strategic locations along the US-Mexico border where additionally fencing (or a wall) would be advantageous for enforcement.

Democrats are not opposed to additional physical barriers such as the limited use of walls or fencing in strategic locations along the border like the 700 miles of vehicle and pedestrian fencing they authorized in 2006 if it's based upon the expert advice of those involved in border security. Along with funding the government the Democrats have been calling for exactly that. They want experts on border security to review and provide the recommendations that Republicans and Democrats need before authorizing improvements to our border security.


Democrats not going to support some hair-brained political idea by President Trump that he used in his campaign as an appeal to xenophobic Americans as a basis for funding anything. Not even the Border Patrol endorses Trump's vision of a wall along the entire US-Mexico border because that expenditure would take funds from providing more boots on the ground and wouldn't be effective because under no circumstances will there ever be enough boots on the ground on the US side of the border to back up Trump's 2,000 mile wall.

As an expert in crisis management explained the Democrats hold the upper hand. They've provided legislation to fund the government and end the shutdown as well as the proposal to improve border security based upon the advice of experts. They have the support of the American people and have no reason to change their position(s).

President Trump is responsible for the shutdown and could end it tomorrow by placing border security ahead of his demands for a wall.

Republicans in Congress can also end the shutdown tomorrow by simply supporting veto-proof legislation that funds the government but that doesn't include funding for Trump's wall. The Senate previously passed this type of legislation unanimously in December.

A crisis is coming, make no mistake about it, and either Trump or the Congressional Republicans are going to be held accountable for that crisis. They'll also be the one's that have to cave-in to the Democrats to end the crisis.

When you know a crisis is coming, and that you're the one that will have to end the crisis even if it's not what you want to do, then you're better off doing what needs to be done today instead of waiting for the crisis to actually occur.

There will be no funding for Trump's wall. Get used to it.

We hereby interrupt this ranting misinformation to bring you some facts:
- The current plan is not for 2000 mile of wall (not sure it ever was), but 722 miles of barrier (mixed wall and fencing) largely to update and make more effective barriers that are already in place. You know, what the experts want.
- Trump is not against more "boots-on-the-ground", in fact he has repeatedly called for just that. He also understands we need both, one doesn't work without the other.
-You are correct in that D's don't oppose physical barriers per-se, what they oppose is anything endorsed by President Trump. Merit of the idea is of little concern.

Dog Man 01-17-2019 12:15 PM

Re: Partial US government shutdown is tied for the longest ever
 
[QUOTE=lurch907;959342]We hereby interrupt this ranting misinformation to bring you some facts:
- The current plan is not for 2000 mile of wall (not sure it ever was), but 722 miles of barrier (mixed wall and fencing) largely to update and make more effective barriers that are already in place. You know, what the experts want.
- Trump is not against more "boots-on-the-ground", in fact he has repeatedly called for just that. He also understands we need both, one doesn't work without the other.
-You are correct in that D's don't oppose physical barriers per-se, what they oppose is anything endorsed by President Trump. Merit of the idea is of little concern.[/QUOTE]

:thumbsup And THAT, is the whole enchilada.


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