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News & Current Events Discuss House Dems move to eliminate Electoral College, limit presidential pardon power and m at the General Forum; Originally Posted by AZRWinger There you go, what self professed communist Van Jones called "white lash" is responsible for electing ...

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Old 01-07-2019, 09:41 AM
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Default Re: House Dems move to eliminate Electoral College, limit presidential pardon power a

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
There you go, what self professed communist Van Jones called "white lash" is responsible for electing Trump. It's classic Democrat identity politics where any demographic that fails to do its duty to the Democrat party should be stripped of their vote.
I realize that I'm beating my head against a wall with most of the people around here when I note the obvious point that the election of Donald Trump was a seismic mistake by the American voting populace, but it clearly was and the demographic group responsible for his election was white, non-college educated voters. Clinton handily won every other demographic group. And, I'm not arguing that they should be "stripped of their vote." I'm simply arguing that their votes shouldn't count for more than the votes of just about everyone else, as they do under the current system.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: House Dems move to eliminate Electoral College, limit presidential pardon power a

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
You have a funny concept of "equal voice." In 2016, the electoral college functioned to give white, non-college educated voters a disproportionately large share of the voting power. That's not a "minority" that needs protecting. If anything, based on what they inflicted on us in 2016, the rest of us need protection from them. Underlying all of these objections to elimination of the electoral college appears to be this belief that non-urban voters are the real Americans who need to be given more weight in the presidential election process than urban voters. That's bull****.
Normally I let attempts at belittling people roll off, but you've posted this kind of bull**** more than once.

Your attempts of painting over your statement regarding voters is really pathetic.... it is a known fact that those with post-graduate degrees tend to be liberal. I could make some snarky remarks on that, but it's not worth my time. But as to the average voter, of which this country is mainly compromised, the numbers are pretty much neck and neck, unless you want to look at the numbers for those who just have high school or less.....

Try discussing or debating without the juvenile ankle biting.

https://www.businessinsider.com/exit...er-education-7
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:15 AM
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Default Re: House Dems move to eliminate Electoral College, limit presidential pardon power a

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But as to the average voter, of which this country is mainly compromised, the numbers are pretty much neck and neck, . . .
What does this even mean? How are you defining "average voter," because the actual average voter in 2016 voted for Hillary Clinton for president.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: House Dems move to eliminate Electoral College, limit presidential pardon power a

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
What does this even mean? How are you defining "average voter," because the actual average voter in 2016 voted for Hillary Clinton for president.
So will you except Trump or ANY Republican as POTUS in 2020 or beyond, if he or she wins the popular vote, but not the electoral vote?

Please answer this simple question.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:36 AM
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Default Re: House Dems move to eliminate Electoral College, limit presidential pardon power a

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So will you except Trump or ANY Republican as POTUS in 2020 or beyond, if he or she wins the popular vote, but not the electoral vote?

Please answer this simple question.
If we amend the constitution or enact a multi-state compact to make that the law for all future elections, then yes.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: House Dems move to eliminate Electoral College, limit presidential pardon power a

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If we amend the constitution or enact a multi-state compact to make that the law for all future elections, then yes.
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:02 PM
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Default Re: House Dems move to eliminate Electoral College, limit presidential pardon power a

From Gotta Go's link




The FACTS say that poor people are the one's voting Democrat
in 2016 and every election I know of. Goodness, why do you think Democrats want to let illegals have the right to vote, why do you think they want to open the borders and get abolish ICE.

Democrats love poor people as they are their voting bloc, but they never seem to give them a hand up so they aren't poor any longer, probably because once they escape poverty they tend to vote more conservatively and they see Democrats stealing more and more of their hard earned money in endless, increasing taxes.
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: House Dems move to eliminate Electoral College, limit presidential pardon power a

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
What does this even mean? How are you defining "average voter," because the actual average voter in 2016 voted for Hillary Clinton for president.
Did you even look at the link? Describing voters based on their 'education', 4% one way or another isn't the insult you attempt to make it.
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: House Dems move to eliminate Electoral College, limit presidential pardon power a

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Did you even look at the link? Describing voters based on their 'education', 4% one way or another isn't the insult you attempt to make it.
I didn't say Trump won thanks to non-college educated voters, I said that Trump won thanks to white non-college educated voters.

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Old 01-07-2019, 12:34 PM
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Default Re: House Dems move to eliminate Electoral College, limit presidential pardon power a

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Originally Posted by Hairy Jello View Post
In addition to pursuing a baseless impeachment and continuing the government shutdown, libs wanna eliminate the electoral college.

For those that are wondering why, it's because Trump won the electoral college in 2016 but lost the popular vote. So because libs got beat by a system they once approved of, they now wanna do away with it because Trump used it to beat 'em.

House Dems move to eliminate Electoral College, limit presidential pardon power and more in first days back
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Article V - U.S. Constitution

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
https://constitution.findlaw.com/article5.html

Leave it to Trump Republicans to once again ignore the Constitution that provides the means for Amendment and instead stand with President Trump who vowed to protect Article XII. That Trump only Article that no one has ever seen or read while Trump continues ignoring any parts of the Constitution that don't suit him.

Quote:
Donald Trump Says He'll Protect Constitution's 'Article XII'
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/dona...ry?id=40422352

The Electoral College process has been corrupted since the first day that they allowed political parties to select the Electoral College members and removed the ability of Electoral College members to independently vote for the candidate they believed to be the best choice for President. Republicans like to claim that they support the original intent of the Constitution then when it comes to electing the President they should take the time to read Federalist #68 where Hamilton talks about the Electoral College.

The Federalist #68

If we were following Federalist 68 today then Donald Trump would never in a thousand years have become president.

I personally disagree with the popular vote being used for electing the President for the same reason that Alexander Hamilton proposed that the President be selected by individuals that were highly qualified and independently selected to choose who the best possible candidate was to fill the highest executive position in the nation. We don't have that and instead we have political party flunky appointees that are required to support the political party's candidate.

Yes, we need to remove the partisan Electoral College from our process in selecting the President. The Electoral College was never intended to be a tool of special interests or political parties.

Personally I'd prefer that we end the popular vote for President and start voting for Electoral College members directly and that being an Electoral College was a non-partisan position of trust. The selection of Electoral College members should be independent and unrelated to any political party as Hamilton intended.

Or, as the Democrats propose, amend the Constitution to eliminate the Electoral College.

Yes, we need to clarify our laws because Donald Trump is abusing the powers of the President (and receiving some aid from the right-wing Supreme Court in ignoring our laws and the Constitution).

Donald Trump has just mentioned using the President's emergency powers to build the border wall by declaring a national security emergency along our Southern Border. There's no national security emergency along our Southern border. Unlawful crossing of our border with Mexico, were estimates are based upon arrests and those turned away by the Border Patrol, is at the lowest level in 40 years. We even had a negative immigration rate with Mexico where more Mexican nationals are leaving the United States than coming into the United States. There are no terrorists or suspected terrorists coming across the Mexican border. Yes, 4000 suspected terrorists were identified as trying to enter the United States through airports and none, according to government records, attempted to enter the United States by crossing our Southern border illegally. Illegal drugs being smuggled into the United States overwhelmingly enter hidden in vehicles that cross the border at US ports of entry. Information from the Department of Homeland Security clearly establishes there isn't a national Security threat along our Southern border with Mexico. To declare a national security emergency when none exists is a blatant abuse of Presidential power.

There is one problem along our Southern border with Mexico and Trump's mentioned it. It's the thousand of refugees that are still in Mexico waiting to be allowed to apply for asylum and enter the United States legally under OUR LAWS. If Trump allowed these refugees, many of which have been there form months to apply for asylum, like the law states they have a right to do, and then issued them one of the tens of thousands of refugee visas, authorized by Congress, in compliance with our law, then there wouldn't be thousands of people on the Mexican side of the border wanting to enter the United States. The so-called "hordes" wouldn't exist and there goes Trump's mythical threat to the United States. People that want to legally enter the United States based upon our refugee and immigration laws do not represent a threat to the United States. Trump's refusal to follow the Refugee Act of 1980 and our immigration laws is an abuse of power by the President.

Trump's travel ban, while not struck down by the right-wing justices on the Supreme Court, is also an abuse of power because Trump claims that "national origin" represents a national security threat. His own Department of Homeland Security stated that national origin was not a basis for determining if a threat existed. Trump ignored the law and that's an abuse of power by the President.

Trump's impositions of tariffs against Canada and Mexico were an abuse of power because neither Canada or Mexico represents a threat against the National Security of the United States. Trump ignored the law and that's an abuse of power by the President.

Trump has abused the power of President by simply ignoring the established protocol under which Presidential pardons and clemency, a power granted by the Constitution, has been established in the United States. The fact that there's even been a discussion about Trump possibly pardoning family members or using a implied promise of a pardon's for suspected or convicted criminals could testify against him or his campaign or his administration to obstruct justice is grounds for a Constitutional amendment to prevent this from ever happening.

Note 1: Democrats are not responsible for the shutdown. The House passed Republican funding proposals that did not include funding for an unplanned mythical wall (or fence) that received unanimous consent in the Senate to reopen the government. The only difference is the Democrats funded all agencies other than DHS for the rest of the fiscal year while only funding DHS until Feb 8th so that border security could be addressed intelligently. Mitch McConnell has refused to allow a vote on those Republican proposals, passed by the House, to be voted on in the Senate where they would also pass. There are enough votes in both the House and Senate, based upon the Republican proposals to fund our government, to override a Presidential Veto if the Republicans want to reopen the government. Mitch McConnell is preventing that from happening.

Note 2: Impeachment of President Trump is not a partisan issue. If Trump is impeached it will be based upon factual evidence of High Crimes and Misdemeanors committed by President Trump that have been uncovered in non-partisan investigations by the FBI.
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