Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > General Forum > News & Current Events
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

News & Current Events Discuss Debunked: Being in the country illegally is NOT a victimless crime at the General Forum; Many illegal invaders steal identities and engage in other crimes, and they need to be deported as soon as they ...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2018, 11:46 AM
Lumara's Avatar
Belly Dance Queen
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Great Smoky Mountains
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,306
Thanks: 3,149
Thanked 2,835 Times in 1,391 Posts
Default Debunked: Being in the country illegally is NOT a victimless crime

Many illegal invaders steal identities and engage in other crimes, and they need to be deported as soon as they are discovered. They should not receive free education, food, medical care, lodging, legal services, etc. Immediate deportation is the only way to stem the tide.

Quote:
Nearly 40 million Social Security numbers have been stolen and used by illegal immigrants and others to get work, according to agency records obtained by an immigration reform group.

The Immigration Reform Law Institute said that from 2012 to 2016 there were “39 million instances where names and Social Security numbers on W-2 tax forms did not match the corresponding Social Security records.” …

“The Social Security numbers of young children are especially sought by illegal aliens, as this theft is likely to go undetected for years. As children reach late teenage years and apply for credit for cars, student loans, and other needs, they may find that their credit has been compromised with mortgages, credit cards and criminal records attached to their identities,” said the group.

“This investigation shines a light on the depth of America’s problems as a result of allowing illegal aliens into the country,” said Dale L. Wilcox, executive director and general counsel of IRLI. “It also debunks the idea that being in the country illegally is a victimless crime. Millions of Americans, in many cases children, are having their identities stolen to enable even more criminal activity. Illegal aliens should not reap Social Security benefits that result from the commission of identity theft.”

This “thriving black market” needs to be stopped! How many more children must be victims of Social Security fraud before America realizes illegal immigration is not a victimless crime? https://www.teapartypatriots.org/iss...8os3uhEt4s9QAQ
__________________
If at first you don't succeed, reload and try again.

Fact: There is no such thing as banning abortion; there is only banning safe and legal abortion.

How can you tell that someone is a vegan? Because they will f*cking tell you.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Lumara For This Useful Post:
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2018, 10:44 AM
jamesrage's Avatar
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: A place where common sense still exist.
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,013
Thanks: 950
Thanked 1,152 Times in 729 Posts
Default Re: Debunked: Being in the country illegally is NOT a victimless crime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumara View Post
Many illegal invaders steal identities and engage in other crimes, and they need to be deported as soon as they are discovered. They should not receive free education, food, medical care, lodging, legal services, etc.
I agree with most of what you said. However anyone caught coming into this country illegally should be jailed for at least 6 months for the first offense and two years in prison for each additional offense like the law says they can be as well as serve time for any other offenses they committed while in our country. We should make overstaying visas carry the same punishment as illegal entry. Although I suppose we can charge those that overstayed their visa with visa fraud since they got the visa with no intention of leaving once their visa expired. Enforcing this would encourage those that are still here illegally to leave and help discourage future illegal immigration.

Instead of simply dropping them off on the other side of the border we drop them off on the furthest point away from our border. For example Mexicans would be deported to a town on their their southern most border while Canadians would be deported to a town on their most northern border.
__________________
"There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”—Theodore Roosevelt

Last edited by jamesrage; 09-16-2018 at 10:50 AM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jamesrage For This Useful Post:
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2018, 12:18 PM
ShivaTD's Avatar
Progressive Libertarian
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Immigrant to Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,333
Thanks: 1,450
Thanked 2,230 Times in 1,769 Posts
Default Re: Debunked: Being in the country illegally is NOT a victimless crime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumara View Post
Many illegal invaders steal identities and engage in other crimes, and they need to be deported as soon as they are discovered. They should not receive free education, food, medical care, lodging, legal services, etc. Immediate deportation is the only way to stem the tide.
While it is true that many "illegal" aliens do use US identities, such as Social Security numbers, they don't do so with the nefarious purpose of committing fraud to steal from the American that has that Social Security number. In fact what happens is that the FICA taxes paid to the federal government go to the account of the person with the SSN and can increase their future payments from Social Security at retirement. If the person with that SSN is benefiting from the contribution made by the "illegal" alien's employment then they're not a victim, they're a beneficiary.

When it comes to Crime Statistics the very conservative "libertarian" CATO Institute found that "illegal" aliens committed roughly half the crimes when compared to native born Americans and "legal" aliens committed about one-third of the number of crimes. Immigrants make our neighborhoods safer because they commit fewer crimes.

Quote:
With few exceptions, immigrants are less crime prone than natives or have no effect on crime rates.
https://www.cato.org/blog/immigratio...-research-says

The "illegal" immigrant does not receive free education or food from our government. They're prohibited from receiving most government welfare benefits. Their children do but their children didn't violate the law. Legal assistance for immigrants, legal or not, is not provided for by our government with the exception of criminal prosecutions where the Constitution requires it. Immigration related cases don't provide legal representation by our government and so any legal services are provided for by private charities.

The opinion is nothing more than rehashed White Supremacy propaganda based upon half-truths mixed with false conclusions to create anti-immigrant prejudice predominately against Hispanic immigrants (lawful and unlawful) today but it's also been used against Muslims. Jews, Asians, blacks, and Catholics historically.

Some counter-acting facts about immigrants.

Immigrants are more likely to start their own business than a native American.

Immigrants on the average, including unlawful immigrants, pay more in Federal, State, and Local taxes than they receive in government benefits.

Immigrants typically fill jobs that native Americans are unwilling to fill because of the labor involved and low pay.

Immigrants create more jobs for native Americans (between 1.8 to over 4 jobs) because of their economic impact than they fill.

Today most "undocumented aliens" enter the United States lawfully and then simply don't leave. These are referred to as visa overstays and account for close to a million people becoming "undocumented" (illegal) aliens each year.
__________________
"I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside." Donald Trump

"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2018, 12:47 PM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tennessee
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,225
Thanks: 9,712
Thanked 3,726 Times in 2,440 Posts
Default Re: Debunked: Being in the country illegally is NOT a victimless crime

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Immigrants are more likely to start their own business than a native American.

Immigrants on the average, including unlawful immigrants, pay more in Federal, State, and Local taxes than they receive in government benefits.

Immigrants typically fill jobs that native Americans are unwilling to fill because of the labor involved and low pay.

Immigrants create more jobs for native Americans (between 1.8 to over 4 jobs) because of their economic impact than they fill.
This all sounds rather impressive.

But can you actually prove any of this?

Or did you merely read it somewhere, in a pro-illegal-immigration document; and then simply accept it? (That is known as confirmation bias.)
__________________
"In his second inaugural address, [Franklin D.] Roosevelt sought 'unimagined power' to enforce the 'proper subordination' of private power to public power. He got it…"—George Will, July 8, 2007
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to pjohns For This Useful Post:
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2018, 12:54 PM
GottaGo's Avatar
Sanity is overrated.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miles to go before I sleep
Posts: 11,765
Thanks: 9,585
Thanked 7,757 Times in 4,967 Posts
Default Re: Debunked: Being in the country illegally is NOT a victimless crime

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
While it is true that many "illegal" aliens do use US identities, such as Social Security numbers, they don't do so with the nefarious purpose of committing fraud to steal from the American that has that Social Security number. In fact what happens is that the FICA taxes paid to the federal government go to the account of the person with the SSN and can increase their future payments from Social Security at retirement. If the person with that SSN is benefiting from the contribution made by the "illegal" alien's employment then they're not a victim, they're a beneficiary.

When it comes to Crime Statistics the very conservative "libertarian" CATO Institute found that "illegal" aliens committed roughly half the crimes when compared to native born Americans and "legal" aliens committed about one-third of the number of crimes. Immigrants make our neighborhoods safer because they commit fewer crimes.


https://www.cato.org/blog/immigratio...-research-says

The "illegal" immigrant does not receive free education or food from our government. They're prohibited from receiving most government welfare benefits. Their children do but their children didn't violate the law. Legal assistance for immigrants, legal or not, is not provided for by our government with the exception of criminal prosecutions where the Constitution requires it. Immigration related cases don't provide legal representation by our government and so any legal services are provided for by private charities.

The opinion is nothing more than rehashed White Supremacy propaganda based upon half-truths mixed with false conclusions to create anti-immigrant prejudice predominately against Hispanic immigrants (lawful and unlawful) today but it's also been used against Muslims. Jews, Asians, blacks, and Catholics historically.

Some counter-acting facts about immigrants.

Immigrants are more likely to start their own business than a native American.

Immigrants on the average, including unlawful immigrants, pay more in Federal, State, and Local taxes than they receive in government benefits.

Immigrants typically fill jobs that native Americans are unwilling to fill because of the labor involved and low pay.

Immigrants create more jobs for native Americans (between 1.8 to over 4 jobs) because of their economic impact than they fill.

Today most "undocumented aliens" enter the United States lawfully and then simply don't leave. These are referred to as visa overstays and account for close to a million people becoming "undocumented" (illegal) aliens each year.
You do also realize, most people who have committed Identity Theft, declare Exempt on their W-4, so the person who actually has the Social Security number is then held responsible for the payment of Federal Income Tax and possibly State Income Tax for the money that someone else earned? That victim then has to spend their time, their money, possibly engage in a legal battle, to clear the situation up?

Your absurd statement about getting more Social Security benefit is patently false, because if they straightened out the Identity theft, then the Social Security that was paid in by the thief, is removed from the account.

What a load of hogwash. You pain such a pretty picture, too bad it is 100% false.
__________________
Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you don't laugh at yourself, a whole bunch of people will volunteer to do it for you
I never lose. I either win, or I learn....
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GottaGo For This Useful Post:
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2018, 01:01 PM
GottaGo's Avatar
Sanity is overrated.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miles to go before I sleep
Posts: 11,765
Thanks: 9,585
Thanked 7,757 Times in 4,967 Posts
Default Re: Debunked: Being in the country illegally is NOT a victimless crime

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
While it is true that many "illegal" aliens do use US identities, such as Social Security numbers, they don't do so with the nefarious purpose of committing fraud to steal from the American that has that Social Security number. In fact what happens is that the FICA taxes paid to the federal government go to the account of the person with the SSN and can increase their future payments from Social Security at retirement. If the person with that SSN is benefiting from the contribution made by the "illegal" alien's employment then they're not a victim, they're a beneficiary.

When it comes to Crime Statistics the very conservative "libertarian" CATO Institute found that "illegal" aliens committed roughly half the crimes when compared to native born Americans and "legal" aliens committed about one-third of the number of crimes. Immigrants make our neighborhoods safer because they commit fewer crimes.


https://www.cato.org/blog/immigratio...-research-says

The "illegal" immigrant does not receive free education or food from our government. They're prohibited from receiving most government welfare benefits. Their children do but their children didn't violate the law. Legal assistance for immigrants, legal or not, is not provided for by our government with the exception of criminal prosecutions where the Constitution requires it. Immigration related cases don't provide legal representation by our government and so any legal services are provided for by private charities.

The opinion is nothing more than rehashed White Supremacy propaganda based upon half-truths mixed with false conclusions to create anti-immigrant prejudice predominately against Hispanic immigrants (lawful and unlawful) today but it's also been used against Muslims. Jews, Asians, blacks, and Catholics historically.

Some counter-acting facts about immigrants.

Immigrants are more likely to start their own business than a native American.

Immigrants on the average, including unlawful immigrants, pay more in Federal, State, and Local taxes than they receive in government benefits.

Immigrants typically fill jobs that native Americans are unwilling to fill because of the labor involved and low pay.

Immigrants create more jobs for native Americans (between 1.8 to over 4 jobs) because of their economic impact than they fill.

Today most "undocumented aliens" enter the United States lawfully and then simply don't leave. These are referred to as visa overstays and account for close to a million people becoming "undocumented" (illegal) aliens each year.
In addition, Illegals are sending out the money they 'earn' by the BILLIONS, to Mexico. BILLIONS. And liberals think that the wealthy remove money from the economy??? https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...oney-than-ever
__________________
Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you don't laugh at yourself, a whole bunch of people will volunteer to do it for you
I never lose. I either win, or I learn....
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GottaGo For This Useful Post:
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2018, 01:25 PM
Lumara's Avatar
Belly Dance Queen
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Great Smoky Mountains
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,306
Thanks: 3,149
Thanked 2,835 Times in 1,391 Posts
Default Re: Debunked: Being in the country illegally is NOT a victimless crime

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
While it is true that many "illegal" aliens do use US identities, such as Social Security numbers, they don't do so with the nefarious purpose of committing fraud to steal from the American that has that Social Security number. In fact what happens is that the FICA taxes paid to the federal government go to the account of the person with the SSN and can increase their future payments from Social Security at retirement. If the person with that SSN is benefiting from the contribution made by the "illegal" alien's employment then they're not a victim, they're a beneficiary.
OMG, you are actually condoning identity theft and saying the person whose identity has been comprised is receiving a benefit. Are you serious?! Do you honestly believe that?

Quote:
Immigrants make our neighborhoods safer because they commit fewer crimes.
"Immigrants" is a blanket term that includes illegal invaders. Anybody who enters this country illegally and then commits a crime does not make anyone safer; it is just the opposite.

Quote:
The "illegal" immigrant does not receive free education or food from our government. They're prohibited from receiving most government welfare benefits. Their children do but their children didn't violate the law.
They all can receive free care at emergency rooms, an expensive benefit that citizens here pay for. Their children were brought here illegally or born here, allowing their illegal invader parents to receive benefits for their care from welfare programs their families never paid into. This most certainly is a matter of illegal immigrants receiving welfare benefits.

Quote:
Legal assistance for immigrants, legal or not, is not provided for by our government with the exception of criminal prosecutions where the Constitution requires it.
Yet another case of illegals burdening taxpayers by their illegal presence here.

Quote:
The opinion is nothing more than rehashed White Supremacy propaganda based upon half-truths mixed with false conclusions to create anti-immigrant prejudice predominately against Hispanic immigrants (lawful and unlawful) today but it's also been used against Muslims. Jews, Asians, blacks, and Catholics historically.
Enough with the ridiculous race card; illegal immigrants aren't a race. Economic statistics and crime stats show many are a problem.

Quote:
Immigrants on the average, including unlawful immigrants, pay more in Federal, State, and Local taxes than they receive in government benefits.
You are lumping illegals with legal immigrants, so those stats don't show the increased welfare and medical costs for illegals.

Quote:
Immigrants typically fill jobs that native Americans are unwilling to fill because of the labor involved and low pay.
Illegal immigrants willing to work at low-paying jobs keep those wages low and exert a downward pressure on wages. If companies couldn't find anyone to do the work, the wages would rise, and then citizens would be more willing to do them.

Quote:
Today most "undocumented aliens" enter the United States lawfully and then simply don't leave. These are referred to as visa overstays and account for close to a million people becoming "undocumented" (illegal) aliens each year.
This is a problem that needs to be addressed as well.
__________________
If at first you don't succeed, reload and try again.

Fact: There is no such thing as banning abortion; there is only banning safe and legal abortion.

How can you tell that someone is a vegan? Because they will f*cking tell you.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Lumara For This Useful Post:
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2018, 01:59 PM
GottaGo's Avatar
Sanity is overrated.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miles to go before I sleep
Posts: 11,765
Thanks: 9,585
Thanked 7,757 Times in 4,967 Posts
Default Re: Debunked: Being in the country illegally is NOT a victimless crime

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
While it is true that many "illegal" aliens do use US identities, such as Social Security numbers, they don't do so with the nefarious purpose of committing fraud to steal from the American that has that Social Security number. In fact what happens is that the FICA taxes paid to the federal government go to the account of the person with the SSN and can increase their future payments from Social Security at retirement. If the person with that SSN is benefiting from the contribution made by the "illegal" alien's employment then they're not a victim, they're a beneficiary.

When it comes to Crime Statistics the very conservative "libertarian" CATO Institute found that "illegal" aliens committed roughly half the crimes when compared to native born Americans and "legal" aliens committed about one-third of the number of crimes. Immigrants make our neighborhoods safer because they commit fewer crimes.


https://www.cato.org/blog/immigratio...-research-says

The "illegal" immigrant does not receive free education or food from our government. They're prohibited from receiving most government welfare benefits. Their children do but their children didn't violate the law. Legal assistance for immigrants, legal or not, is not provided for by our government with the exception of criminal prosecutions where the Constitution requires it. Immigration related cases don't provide legal representation by our government and so any legal services are provided for by private charities.

The opinion is nothing more than rehashed White Supremacy propaganda based upon half-truths mixed with false conclusions to create anti-immigrant prejudice predominately against Hispanic immigrants (lawful and unlawful) today but it's also been used against Muslims. Jews, Asians, blacks, and Catholics historically.

Some counter-acting facts about immigrants.

Immigrants are more likely to start their own business than a native American.

Immigrants on the average, including unlawful immigrants, pay more in Federal, State, and Local taxes than they receive in government benefits.

Immigrants typically fill jobs that native Americans are unwilling to fill because of the labor involved and low pay.

Immigrants create more jobs for native Americans (between 1.8 to over 4 jobs) because of their economic impact than they fill.

Today most "undocumented aliens" enter the United States lawfully and then simply don't leave. These are referred to as visa overstays and account for close to a million people becoming "undocumented" (illegal) aliens each year.
I will continue picking apart your post. I don't know where you've been dredging your information from, but they have been feeding you a load of crap.

Overstay's from 2015: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/01/19/...scal-year-2015

You also contradict yourself - if the Illegals steal someone's identity, and work, they are subject to the same DoL laws regarding pay that everyone who is here legally is subject to. Therefore, they aren't 'low paying jobs native(?) Americans won't do'.
__________________
Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you don't laugh at yourself, a whole bunch of people will volunteer to do it for you
I never lose. I either win, or I learn....
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GottaGo For This Useful Post:
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2018, 01:00 PM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tennessee
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,225
Thanks: 9,712
Thanked 3,726 Times in 2,440 Posts
Default Re: Debunked: Being in the country illegally is NOT a victimless crime

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The "illegal" immigrant does not receive free education or food from our government. They're prohibited from receiving most government welfare benefits. Their children do but their children didn't violate the law. [Bold in original]
Are you familiar with the term "chain migration"?

And do you actually celebrate it--together with its inevitable consequences?
__________________
"In his second inaugural address, [Franklin D.] Roosevelt sought 'unimagined power' to enforce the 'proper subordination' of private power to public power. He got it…"—George Will, July 8, 2007
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2018, 01:07 PM
CindyB's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,151
Thanks: 8,016
Thanked 4,872 Times in 2,991 Posts
Default Re: Debunked: Being in the country illegally is NOT a victimless crime

https://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/...e-email-leaked

I notice Twitter backtracked.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
being, country, crime, debunked, illegally, not, the, victimless

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0