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News & Current Events Discuss Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office at the General Forum; Originally Posted by foundit66 Joe, SOME forms of compelled speech are illegal. Your own wiki article explicitly states that some ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2018, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post

Joe, SOME forms of compelled speech are illegal.
Your own wiki article explicitly states that some forms of compelled speech are legal.
Yep, so lets actually look at this. If you had bothered to actually THINK about the examples you read there (if you really even read them) you'd notice some very obvious common denominators with the examples of compelled speech that ARE allowed. Such as ... safety. (Requiring a cable system to carry local stations and alcohol/tobacco warnings for example.) OR, such as ... accommodating people who are disadvantaged, like the example regarding sight- and hearing-impared persons.

The case here you're arguing about regarding this professor? It involves nothing of the sort. So you bringing up the fact the law allows some cases of compelled speech proves NOTHING in this case.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
And the stupid thing about your reply is we both agree this compelling act is unconstitutional.
Um ... you just took the position in post #13 of comparing it to a knock-knock joke and CLEARLY STATED IT WOULD NOT BE UNCONSTIUTIONAL. So I note for the viewing audience that you've now CHANGED your position and agree with me, when you clearly did not before, as evidenced by your own words. Glad you came around.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I state apple.
You pretend I'm arguing orange.
Except in this case any by your fruit analogy, the CONSTITUTION is talking about the oranges in this case. You stating "apple" over and over doesn't change that.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Joe, can you stop for a minute and recognize we both state what he did was wrong and needed to be stopped.
And yet you can't bring yourself to just be agreeable across the board on this, and you want to pretend this is less of an issue than it really is.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
By this mentality, if we had forced speech (e.g. prayer in school) then we should form some committee to monitor and ensure it can never be allowed again???
Of course, and in many cases in schools IT WOULD BE!. You don't think that in today's climate most school boards wouldn't be pressured to hire superintendents or principals that would not allow forcing kids to pray in schools??? One has to wonder why you're pretending the case in THIS article is less a big deal.
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Last edited by Joe Shoe; 06-18-2018 at 09:32 PM..
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2018, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
how do you know this is true?
Well, I don't really know if Allah's anus has a name or not.

Now back to the holier-than-thou Muslim fanatic.

Last edited by Manitou; 06-18-2018 at 11:54 PM..
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2018, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Yep, so lets actually look at this. If you had bothered to actually THINK about the examples you read there (if you really even read them) you'd notice some very obvious common denominators with the examples of compelled speech that ARE allowed. Such as ... safety. (Requiring a cable system to carry local stations and alcohol/tobacco warnings for example.) OR, such as ... accommodating people who are disadvantaged, like the example regarding sight- and hearing-impared persons.
The case here you're arguing about regarding this professor? It involves nothing of the sort. So you bringing up the fact the law allows some cases of compelled speech proves NOTHING in this case.
How is requiring a cable system to carry local stations an example of "safety"???


And skipping over your absurd summary, there are obviously common sense limits here. I'm simply talking about a method to announce one's wish to enter, with examples provided in a whimsical manner. The "whimsical" aspect would obviously be questionable (on a professional level), but the announcing one's wish to enter is simple common sense and could more accurately be put under "safety" than your blind generalization.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Um ... you just took the position in post #13 of comparing it to a knock-knock joke and CLEARLY STATED IT WOULD NOT BE UNCONSTIUTIONAL. So I note for the viewing audience that you've now CHANGED your position and agree with me, when you clearly did not before, as evidenced by your own words. Glad you came around.
Learn some reading comprehension or honesty...
Also in that post I stated: "Dictating that they have to say "Bismillah" is way out of the question."

In your earlier post you acknowledged that I held that position based on religious concerns. i.e. First Amendment.

I didn't change my position.
I have always held that a public university teacher requiring students to say "Bismillah" is unconstitutional based on first amendment (religion) concerns.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Except in this case any by your fruit analogy, the CONSTITUTION is talking about the oranges in this case. You stating "apple" over and over doesn't change that.
The constitution talks about both apples and oranges.

And the example I gave of school lead prayer would be more appropriate, demonstrating this is an APPLE situation. i.e. violation of first amendment freedom of religion.


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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
And yet you can't bring yourself to just be agreeable across the board on this, and you want to pretend this is less of an issue than it really is.
You are the one who took issue with my post and started whining about what I said.
I responded to you attacking me.
So let's acknowledge who was the first who "couldn't bring themselves to just be agreeable"...
i.e. you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Of course, and in many cases in schools IT WOULD BE!.
Show me any school that has a committee or other situation formed to proactively ensure prayer school isn't held.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
You don't think that in today's climate most school boards wouldn't be pressured to hire superintendents or principals that would not allow forcing kids to pray in schools??? One has to wonder why you're pretending the case in THIS article is less a big deal.
I am saying that we don't have special committees or witch-hunts formed to ensure nobody performs school prayer.
We also don't need that for professors who would demand kids say "Bismillah".

The funny thing is when you lie stupidly and make such statements like above, when I clearly stated the below which you cut and paste around...
We both invoke the first amendment.
I invoke the "freedom of religion" part WHICH HAS MANY MORE PRECEDENT EXAMPLES regarding public schooling, and you try for the "compelled speech" aspect.
One major example of unconstitutional compelled speech in schools being PRAYER. And one can easily recognize what this guy was doing as broaching too far into that territory...
So not only do you lie and claim I take this less seriously than school prayer, you actually cut and paste around the quote which makes it clear I do not have that position.


But to get to another level of this absurdity in your overkill, your approach is attacking this as "compelled speech".
Ergo, if students are willing, then it's okay for the professor to ask them to say Bismillah before they enter, as long as students who are not willing don't have to say Bismillah.
THAT is what compelled speech is really about. And in such a reality, it begs the question as to why you would want such overkill on the issue.

My approach centers around first amendment freedom of religion => the professor should never ask anybody willing or not to ask "Bismillah" or "In Jehova's name" or anything like that.
Like school lead prayer.
As it should never be done (ever), it would be closer to a solution of "overhauling HR" and other nonsense you mentioned if we were to approach this like overkill...
My position is that while it's wrong, it doesn't take the Spanish inquisition to try to ensure it never happens again. It doesn't warrant that much effort.
School shootings would be more of a problem necessitating actual response and proactive measures against. Not an idiot professor who had his signs immediately taken away.
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Last edited by foundit66; 06-22-2018 at 06:03 PM..
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