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News & Current Events Discuss Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Hairy Jello It was removed after he retired and peeps made it known to the public and ...

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:04 PM
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Post Re: Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairy Jello View Post
It was removed after he retired and peeps made it known to the public and media what was goin' on.
So basically the college knew it was happening and allowed it to go on until word got out and the prof retired; then they took the signs down.
Sorry, Foundit. Better luck next time.
I should have known you would be dishonest enough to edit out the part I was disproving.
In you post #1, you claimed: Wait, what? Oh, it was a Muslim professor that required students to take their shoes off and praise Allah. Then that makes it okay.
Obviously it was NOT okay as people forced him to take the signs down.


Your whole commentary on "allowed it to go on" is something you made up. You have shown absolutely no evidence of that.
The article explicitly stated: “Regarding this instance, the sign that had directed guests to precede their conversations with a specific Arabic phrase was immediately removed at the university’s direction,”
But of course, you make up a story to fit your lie, dontcha...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenock
The issue here is he works for a public school. I have no problem with him have religious paraphernalia in his office. Signs, posters, items whatever. Your religion is part of who you are. Honestly I don't even have a problem with him preaching his religion. But when he FORCES students to engage in observance of HIS religion before he will allow them entry or speak with him, he is overstepping his position.
I didn't state it before but allow me to state it now.
I agree with you on this point as well.

Adding on, to me the whole "remove shoes before entering" almost seems trivial, to me at least. I've been at people's homes who have that policy and worked overseas in Japan so I've seen that type of philosophy from the mindset of culture and floor care.

But him having people say "Bismillah" before entering was completely wrong.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
... to claim it's not a space that he can create such policy in could raise into question whether a person could put up religious symbols in their office like a cross. Since I see it as a "private office provided to him by the public", I would think people should have such freedom.
Wow, you missed the important point, big time. The real issue here isn't that this involved religious practices, it's rather that he is compelling them to engage in certain speech to gain entry. But because you can't see past the religious angle, you guys don't get that there should be no less outrage here in terms of free speech than if he demanded everyone declare "hail Hitler" before entering. The university took the least amount of responsibility by removing the professor's signs, but they should have gone much father by firing the professor, overhauling their HR practices in a transparent way, and detailing how they will take steps to make sure that sort of thing does not happen in the future.
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:20 PM
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Post Re: Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Wow, you missed the point, big time. The real issue here isn't compelling people to do something religious, it's rather that he is compelling them to engage in certain speech to gain entry. But because you can't see past the religious angle, you guys don't get that there should be no less outrage here in terms of free speech than if he demanded everyone declare "hail Hitler" before entering.
No. You missed the point, big time.
First off, there is a real issue here in compelling people to do something religious. (i.e. saying Bismillah before entering).
Compelling people to engage "in certain speech" to gain entry almost seems meaningless as a standard. He could ask them to tell a knock-knock joke or to give a secret password before he opens the door. While absurd, it wouldn't be unconstitutional.

The comment I made on items in the office were simply an example of how extreme one could take an understanding of THE OTHER POSTER'S COMMENT that it was a public space (ignoring the fact that it was his office). I was making a point that we need to give these workers some level of control in their own office to establish some rules.
Dictating that they have to say "Bismillah" is way out of the question.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
The university took the least amount of responsibility by removing the professor's signs, but they should have gone much father by firing the professor, overhauling their HR practices in a transparent way, and detailing how they will take steps to make sure that sort of thing does not happen in the future.
It happens once, so we gotta make other people do a lot of work to ensure it never happens again...
While I agree the professor's sign was wrong, your follow-on is overkill.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office

Yada yada. You've been proven wrong and shot down. Action was only taken after the moron prof retired.

Quote:
Coe retired since the video was taken and the signs were quickly taken down
You lose.



Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I should have known you would be dishonest enough to edit out the part I was disproving.
In you post #1, you claimed: Wait, what? Oh, it was a Muslim professor that required students to take their shoes off and praise Allah. Then that makes it okay.
Obviously it was NOT okay as people forced him to take the signs down.


Your whole commentary on "allowed it to go on" is something you made up. You have shown absolutely no evidence of that.
The article explicitly stated: “Regarding this instance, the sign that had directed guests to precede their conversations with a specific Arabic phrase was immediately removed at the university’s direction,”
But of course, you make up a story to fit your lie, dontcha...



I didn't state it before but allow me to state it now.
I agree with you on this point as well.

Adding on, to me the whole "remove shoes before entering" almost seems trivial, to me at least. I've been at people's homes who have that policy and worked overseas in Japan so I've seen that type of philosophy from the mindset of culture and floor care.

But him having people say "Bismillah" before entering was completely wrong.
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:52 PM
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Post Re: Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office

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Originally Posted by Hairy Jello View Post
Yada yada. You've been proven wrong and shot down. Action was only taken after the moron prof retired.
Actually, in reading the article originally it seemed implied but never actually stated that the professor's retirement may have been caused by this incident in the first place. (i.e. forceful retirement)

Regardless, the quote you provided never stated whether he retired before or after the signs were taken down. It just states the two actions took place.
It was your assumption that the signs were only taken down after he retired...

And of course, you claim you are the winner because you assume it so.


Regardless, I still proved your claim a lie...
You claimed: "Oh, it was a Muslim professor that required students to take their shoes off and praise Allah. Then that makes it okay."
The University explicitly stated it was not okay, thus proving your claim b.s.
They "immediately" removed the signs, despite your assumptions to the contrary.
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Compelling people to engage "in certain speech" to gain entry almost seems meaningless as a standard. He could ask them to tell a knock-knock joke or to give a secret password before he opens the door. While absurd, it wouldn't be unconstitutional.
OMG.
Apparently you don't understand the first amendment at all and that it not only protects peoples' ability to say things, but also to prevent them from being COMPELLED to say things. Ergo it most certainly IS unconstitutional, and the fact that you think it's not speaks volumes, and shows why you so glaringly missed the important point here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I was making a point that we need to give these workers some level of control in their own office to establish some rules.
Their right to control their office space ends when it steps on others' constitutional rights. You might as well be arguing he could require people to wear blackface to enter his office.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
It happens once, so we gotta make other people do a lot of work to ensure it never happens again...
While I agree the professor's sign was wrong, your follow-on is overkill.
Well when you clearly are out to minimize the seriousness of it, as you are here, then naturally you're going to take that position. Personally, I'd rather see the university take it a little more seriously. To pretend that merely removing the signs is any real and substantive reaction by the university is completely disingenuous.
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office

Sorry, bro, you already lost. School only took down the signs after the dude retired.

Better luck next time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Actually, in reading the article originally it seemed implied but never actually stated that the professor's retirement may have been caused by this incident in the first place. (i.e. forceful retirement)

Regardless, the quote you provided never stated whether he retired before or after the signs were taken down. It just states the two actions took place.
It was your assumption that the signs were only taken down after he retired...

And of course, you claim you are the winner because you assume it so.


Regardless, I still proved your claim a lie...
You claimed: "Oh, it was a Muslim professor that required students to take their shoes off and praise Allah. Then that makes it okay."
The University explicitly stated it was not okay, thus proving your claim b.s.
They "immediately" removed the signs, despite your assumptions to the contrary.
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Apparently you don't understand the first amendment at all and that it not only protects peoples' ability to say things, but also to prevent them from being COMPELLED to say things. Ergo it most certainly IS unconstitutional, and the fact that you think it's not speaks volumes, and shows why you so glaringly missed the important point here.

Joe, SOME forms of compelled speech are illegal.
Your own wiki article explicitly states that some forms of compelled speech are legal.

And the stupid thing about your reply is we both agree this compelling act is unconstitutional.
We both invoke the first amendment.
I invoke the "freedom of religion" part WHICH HAS MANY MORE PRECEDENT EXAMPLES regarding public schooling, and you try for the "compelled speech" aspect.
One major example of unconstitutional compelled speech in schools being PRAYER. And one can easily recognize what this guy was doing as broaching too far into that territory...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Their right to control their office space ends when it steps on others' constitutional rights. You might as well be arguing he could require people to wear blackface to enter his office.
I state apple.
You pretend I'm arguing orange.

Knock off the strawman.

No. My comments cannot be intelligibly understood as to argue people are required to wear blackface to enter his office.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Well when you clearly are out to minimize the seriousness of it, as you are here, then naturally you're going to take that position. Personally, I'd rather see the university take it a little more seriously. To pretend that merely removing the signs is any real and substantive reaction by the university is completely disingenuous.
Joe, can you stop for a minute and recognize we both state what he did was wrong and needed to be stopped.
The difference being that you think it necessitates even more action to ensure it never happens again.

By this mentality, if we had forced speech (e.g. prayer in school) then we should form some committee to monitor and ensure it can never be allowed again???
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2018, 09:06 PM
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Post Re: Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office

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Originally Posted by Hairy Jello View Post
Sorry, bro, you already lost. School only took down the signs after the dude retired.
And once again, that's not what the article said.
The article said they immediately had the signs removed.
“Regarding this instance, the sign that had directed guests to precede their conversations with a specific Arabic phrase was immediately removed at the university’s direction,”
The article said that he has retired since the video was taken, which is not the same thing as saying the signs were taken down after the dude retired.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2018, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: Professor required students to praise Allah, remove shoes before entering office

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
And once again, that's not what the article said.
The article said they immediately had the signs removed.

The article said that he has retired since the video was taken, which is not the same thing as saying the signs were taken down after the dude retired.
Bzzzzzzzt.

Prof retired. Signs then were taken down.

You lose. Thanks for playing. Maybe I'll give ya a consolation prize if you're lucky.

Quote:
Coe retired since the video was taken and the signs were quickly taken down
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