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News & Current Events Discuss Robert Mueller just accused Paul Manafort of attempted witness tampering at the General Forum; Paul Manafort has already been indicted on 23 counts by special counsel Robert Mueller’s team — but in a new ...

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Old 06-07-2018, 05:45 PM
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Post Robert Mueller just accused Paul Manafort of attempted witness tampering

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Paul Manafort has already been indicted on 23 counts by special counsel Robert Mueller’s team — but in a new filing Monday night, Mueller accused the former Trump campaign chair of yet more wrongdoing: attempted witness tampering.

Though Mueller hasn’t filed new charges yet, he moved to prevent Manafort’s release from house arrest on bail because, Mueller argued, the FBI had probable cause to believe Manafort has recently been attempting to tamper with potential witnesses.

Mueller claims that after Manafort was indicted on a second set of charges this February, he and a close associate “repeatedly contacted” two people they’d worked with in the past “in an effort to secure materially false testimony” in the case.

The special counsel says he’s obtained encrypted messaging, call records, and witness testimony to back him up — and that Manafort’s release should be blocked as a result.

Since his initial indictment last October Manafort has been held on house arrest and trying to meet his $10 million bail by putting up various properties. In recent weeks, it looked as if he was finally close to making it. But now, Mueller says that because there’s probable cause to believe he committed a crime here, his release should be blocked. You can read Mueller’s whole filing here.

How Mueller says Manafort tried to tamper with witnesses
The underlying matter at issue here is not Russian collusion or interference with the campaign — matters Manafort has not faced any charges over — but Manafort’s work for the pro-Russian Ukrainian government several years back.

Mueller has charged Manafort with 5 counts in Washington, DC, and 18 in Virginia related to this lobbying work. The charges include, among other things, conspiracy to defraud the United States, acting as an unregistered agent of a foreign principal, filing false income tax returns, bank fraud, and failure to report foreign financial accounts. Manafort has pleaded not guilty on all of them.

Mueller’s team claimed in their February indictment that, as part of the Ukraine lobbying, Manafort paid a group of former senior European politicians that he called the “Hapsburg group” to advocate for Ukraine’s interests in the United States.

Manafort seemed to believe his strongest defense would be to claim that he did pay these politicians to advocate for Ukraine’s interests — but only in the European Union, not the United States. And he wanted to make sure that two unnamed people from a PR firm with whom he’d worked on the project would stick to that story.

So, per Mueller, within days Manafort tried to reach out to one principal in that PR firm — someone referred to as “Person D1” in the indictment. Mueller alleges that:

On February 24, Manafort called Person D1, but he quickly ended the call.
That same day, Manafort used an encrypted messaging app to text the person “This is paul.”
On February 25 and 27, Manafort tried to call Person D1.
On February 26, Manafort sent Person D1 an encrypted message with a news article about the Hapsburg group allegations, and then wrote: “We should talk. I have made clear that they worked in Europe.”
https://www.vox.com/2018/6/4/1742780...ness-tampering

But some people feel there's nothing to see here...
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Old 06-07-2018, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Robert Mueller just accused Paul Manafort of attempted witness tampering

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
https://www.vox.com/2018/6/4/1742780...ness-tampering

But some people feel there's nothing to see here...
What people? Where are these people you claim feel there is nothing to see here? There's plenty to see here! Can't find anyone saying otherwise either. Of course there is the fact some people don't see anything to do with the Russians stealing the 2016 election here. For some reason.
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Old 06-07-2018, 06:47 PM
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Post Re: Robert Mueller just accused Paul Manafort of attempted witness tampering

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What people? Where are these people you claim feel there is nothing to see here? There's plenty to see here! Can't find anyone saying otherwise either. Of course there is the fact some people don't see anything to do with the Russians stealing the 2016 election here. For some reason.
You're new to this board...
You admitting there is something to see here is an incredible novelty for this forum's right-wing response.

Cause the reality is that all the people who from 2015 and earlier blamed Obama (directly) for any whiff of a problem anywhere under the Executive Branch umbrella will refuse to utilize the same standards for people so closely tied to Trump...
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Robert Mueller just accused Paul Manafort of attempted witness tampering

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You're new to this board...
You admitting there is something to see here is an incredible novelty for this forum's right-wing response.

Cause the reality is that all the people who from 2015 and earlier blamed Obama (directly) for any whiff of a problem anywhere under the Executive Branch umbrella will refuse to utilize the same standards for people so closely tied to Trump...
I don't see it as having to admit anything. Just like I still don't see anyone of any note claiming there is nothing to see with regard to Manafort. But a lot of people who do see something nefarious in the Manafort case still don't see how that has anything to do with the Russians stealing the election.

By the way. Why wouldn't anyone blame the head of the executive branch for problems within it? Is Obama supposed to get a pass on that whereas other presidents don't?
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: Robert Mueller just accused Paul Manafort of attempted witness tampering

Robert Mueller....

Mueller has zero credibility left. Dude has proven himself a moron over and over. Nothing he says can be taken seriously. Dude has an agenda and doin' his best to fulfill it.

Mueller's Russia investigation: What to know
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Robert Mueller just accused Paul Manafort of attempted witness tampering

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Robert Mueller....

Mueller has zero credibility left. Dude has proven himself a moron over and over. Nothing he says can be taken seriously. Dude has an agenda and doin' his best to fulfill it.

Mueller's Russia investigation: What to know
I'll see your hand and raise you!
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:37 PM
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Default Re: Robert Mueller just accused Paul Manafort of attempted witness tampering

Paul Manafort is one dumb motherf-cker lol. They have statements from both potential witnesses plus the messages.

Manafort’s going to jail. Manafort's ghost is going to jail.
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: Robert Mueller just accused Paul Manafort of attempted witness tampering

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Paul Manafort is one dumb motherf-cker lol. They have statements from both potential witnesses plus the messages.

Manafort’s going to jail. Manafort's ghost is going to jail.
Well Manafort has deep deep pockets and can afford the best defense money can buy. And despite your silly assertion he is not dumb by any measure, so don't count your chickens before they hatch.
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Robert Mueller just accused Paul Manafort of attempted witness tampering

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Well Manafort has deep deep pockets and can afford the best defense money can buy. And despite your silly assertion he is not dumb by any measure, so don't count your chickens before they hatch.
Commits new crimes while already under indictment for serious crimes, sounds pretty dumb.

I mean imagine you are Manafort, knowing that you are under investigation for numerous crimes, already indicted on multiple charges, already halfway up the river.

You sit alone in your house trying to figure out a way out of this mess. Somehow, SOMEHOW, you come to the conclusion a great idea would be to try to influence some of the witnesses to your shady dealings. But you're going to do this on your phone in an encrypted message. You're going to TEXT, so that there is an obvious paper trail. And somehow you think that the people investigating you are not going to catch that? That they aren't going to be keeping tabs on your calls and texts? Would anyone refer to the above as the actions of some criminal savant?

He's not a complete fool, but right now the Peter Principle is hitting him like a freight train loaded with more freight trains.
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Robert Mueller just accused Paul Manafort of attempted witness tampering

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Commits new crimes while already under indictment for serious crimes, sounds pretty dumb.

I mean imagine you are Manafort, knowing that you are under investigation for numerous crimes, already indicted on multiple charges, already halfway up the river.

You sit alone in your house trying to figure out a way out of this mess. Somehow, SOMEHOW, you come to the conclusion a great idea would be to try to influence some of the witnesses to your shady dealings. But you're going to do this on your phone in an encrypted message. You're going to TEXT, so that there is an obvious paper trail. And somehow you think that the people investigating you are not going to catch that? That they aren't going to be keeping tabs on your calls and texts? Would anyone refer to the above as the actions of some criminal savant?

He's not a complete fool, but right now the Peter Principle is hitting him like a freight train loaded with more freight trains.
Again, at this point that is all allegation and has to be proven in a court of law. Manafort is the kind of client that can afford to beat the rap. And he is connected out the whazoo. But if he is proven to have done everything alleged, I'll grant you he made a stupid move. Even though he himself has been quite clever and made out like a true Machiavellian in politics up till now.

Last edited by Schochite; 06-07-2018 at 11:11 PM..
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