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News & Current Events Discuss ‘I will fix this,’ Starbucks CEO vows after ‘reprehensible’ arrest of two black men a at the General Forum; Originally Posted by GetAClue You may very well be right about the part that racism played in this incident. Then ...

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Old 04-20-2018, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: ‘I will fix this,’ Starbucks CEO vows after ‘reprehensible’ arrest of two black m

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
You may very well be right about the part that racism played in this incident. Then again, it could be something else. We don't know. But I suppose had I lived in your shoes my entire life, I would see things differently. I am not disputing that.

My point about the women claiming that she was there the day before and not asked to leave was that she did not mention if she was there alone or with other paying customers. That in itself would change the narrative of her story.

I'll leave it at this. If this was a racially motivated action by the store manager, shame on him. He should then be fired and called out. If it was just an innocent case of 2 guys that were hanging around too long without buying anything, then maybe this is much ado about nothing. To me, it originally appeared to be another case of people looking for a reason to be offended. However, I could be wrong and I believe I stated as much. I just have a hard time believing that race would be an issue in a city like Philadelphia having spent some time there myself. There are not too many places in that city where you would not be confronted with race on a daily basis and I would expect that this would have happened long before now. My gut feel is that we are missing a critical piece of the story.

However, as I stated previously, Starbucks has brought this upon themselves with their business model of encouraging hipsters to come and hang out at their stores. If that is the case, they absolutely cannot be upset when people do regardless of their race.

Personally, you would never catch me in one of their stores buying over priced coffee from a hipster with a puss filled hole in his lip with a metal ring through it making my drink. I would feel better drinking water from a pothole.
I'm glad we're able to chat about this , often times people shy away from the conversation all together.
Like on any issue everyone comes to it with different POVs. But as far as the facts go that's beyond what our personal histories are.

the fact that some people would tend to give the starbucks staff ever benny of the doubt and assume that race is likely the last motive, is personal. Others might assume it the 1st. As i said, it's not my 1st instinct. However with the information AVAILABLE. it seems to be the MOST likely factually. Not based on "my history"

please take another look at the video i posted at the 2:25 mark.
the eyewittness Melissa DePino said specifically this (rough transcript).
"another woman was there and said she'd been sitting there for 2 hours with her Gatorade and no one had questioned her."
DePino then says. "I was there yesterday sitting waiting for my son for 1 hour and then we left".

I'm not sure why anyone should assume that she or the other woman were with paying customers. Anymore than i should assume that the starbucks staff does this regularly to young black men.

To assume other facts here is simply spinning it in a direction that's more comfortable for you. I'm not the one adding info or my life experience here. As unlikely as it may seem to you. The info at hand leans toward the idea that this was racially motivated.

If it makes you more comfortable to assume otherwise that's cool.
you may be right, but so far nothings really pointing that way.

personally I think the overall all reaction with boycotts and sit-ins etc is over the top. the Firing and the fixing that store is great. the overall training for all stores is a extra step and good move if it's a decent program.
But I'm not a starbucks fan in general, 1st i'm not a coffee drinker, but they've supported LBGTxyz marriage laws and they donate to planned parenthood
So i'd "boycotted" them long ago.
And frankly I'm surprised with their hard left wing political views that this would happen there. and as you said in Philadelphia of all places. But you know as well as i there are all kinds of people working for various companies. it could happen anywhere.

And the staff person that did it could be a generally nice person that was frankly unaware of her own biases in this case. (the 911 caller was a female voice so I'm assuming she made the decision)
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Last edited by mr wonder; 04-20-2018 at 08:26 AM..
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Old 04-20-2018, 09:37 AM
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Default Re: ‘I will fix this,’ Starbucks CEO vows after ‘reprehensible’ arrest of two black m

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
I'm glad we're able to chat about this , often times people shy away from the conversation all together.
Like on any issue everyone comes to it with different POVs. But as far as the facts go that's beyond what our personal histories are.

the fact that some people would tend to give the starbucks staff ever benny of the doubt and assume that race is likely the last motive, is personal. Others might assume it the 1st. As i said, it's not my 1st instinct. However with the information AVAILABLE. it seems to be the MOST likely factually. Not based on "my history"

please take another look at the video i posted at the 2:25 mark.
the eyewittness Melissa DePino said specifically this (rough transcript).
"another woman was there and said she'd been sitting there for 2 hours with her Gatorade and no one had questioned her."
DePino then says. "I was there yesterday sitting waiting for my son for 1 hour and then we left".

I'm not sure why anyone should assume that she or the other woman were with paying customers. Anymore than i should assume that the starbucks staff does this regularly to young black men.

To assume other facts here is simply spinning it in a direction that's more comfortable for you. I'm not the one adding info or my life experience here. As unlikely as it may seem to you. The info at hand leans toward the idea that this was racially motivated.

If it makes you more comfortable to assume otherwise that's cool.
you may be right, but so far nothings really pointing that way.

personally I think the overall all reaction with boycotts and sit-ins etc is over the top. the Firing and the fixing that store is great. the overall training for all stores is a extra step and good move if it's a decent program.
But I'm not a starbucks fan in general, 1st i'm not a coffee drinker, but they've supported LBGTxyz marriage laws and they donate to planned parenthood
So i'd "boycotted" them long ago.
And frankly I'm surprised with their hard left wing political views that this would happen there. and as you said in Philadelphia of all places. But you know as well as i there are all kinds of people working for various companies. it could happen anywhere.

And the staff person that did it could be a generally nice person that was frankly unaware of her own biases in this case. (the 911 caller was a female voice so I'm assuming she made the decision)
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the women in question had been with paying customers one way or the other. I was just using that as an example to illustrate that there may be missing components to the story that we are not aware of. (Personally, I don't trust much news reporting these days as news editors tend to edit their news coverage in a way to sway the audience to believe what they want them to believe.)

All I am saying is that I am skeptical about the conclusion that this was racially motivated. I may be wrong and if so, I will gladly accept that. If this had happened in a predominately white area of the country, not accustomed to racial diversity, I would be more likely to believe that to be the case. But we are talking Philadelphia, a town where someone would be hard pressed to say they have not dealt the customers of all race and backgrounds on a daily basis.

But whatever the case, I do appreciate your honesty and open discussion on such a sensitive subject. While I feel that I not hold prejudice views regarding race, your comments have made me realize that I need to allow myself to look at things through a different lens that I may not have in the past.

And as for Starbucks, I should have also mentioned that I myself am not a coffee drinker, so that would be the primary reason you would not find me there. But also their left leaning political positions along with the catering to the hipster crowd would also be enough to keep me away.
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Old 04-20-2018, 10:33 AM
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Default Re: ‘I will fix this,’ Starbucks CEO vows after ‘reprehensible’ arrest of two black m

IMO I think that race did play a part in this, although a small part, it was enough to take it farther than it should have been taken.

Probably would have been best if they said "Hey fellas can I get you something?" If they just said No! I would have asked if they were waiting for someone. If they said yes I would have said OK, take your time and left it alone.

Now if they said they were not waiting for anyone, and were not going to order anything, and it was busy enough where paying customers didn't have a place to sit down......I might have to ask them to give up their seat.

But if policy dictates you can stay there all day and never order anything. Then I would have to tell paying customers that is our policy, and they will have to take it up with the Corporate office if they don't like it..
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: ‘I will fix this,’ Starbucks CEO vows after ‘reprehensible’ arrest of two black m

I hate the media.

While I personally do believe there was possible racism involved here. Especially if whites were allowed to stay without buying anything. The reason the men were arrested is because they refused to leave when asked. The media continually portrays the reason for the rest as being that they were in the store not buying anything. While this certainly led to them being asked to leave, the refusal to leave was the reason for the arrest.

The manager gave the reason for her not asking them herself before calling the police as that in the past when she had asked someone to leave for loitering in the store without purchasing anything, she had been threatened and chased around the store, so since that incident, she defaults to calling the police.

Two hours in a business without buying anything seems excessive.

These posts on reddit are interesting...

https://www.reddit.com/r/starbucks/s...restrict_sr=on

The most recent about this incident is interesting, but the other's prior to the incident are more enlightening because they are discussing the issue of loitering being a problem BEFORE this. None of the previous ones mention race.
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Old 04-23-2018, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: ‘I will fix this,’ Starbucks CEO vows after ‘reprehensible’ arrest of two black m

Now hearing that these 2 black men are not the only ones that have been denied service at Starbucks in Philadelphia. Apparently, they deny the police also.

Sherriff David Clark posted the following:

Quote:
Not too long ago a Philadelphia Starbucks refused to let a police officer use the restroom telling him it was for paying customers. Don't remember Starbucks closing 8000 stores for sensitivity training toward police.
I am also hearing that due to the high volume business at that specific store, the policy at the store in question is to deny restrooms and other amenities to non-paying customers (not sure how you are a customer if you having purchased anything). (This was from a news update on a local radio station. I will try to find more on this.)
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:39 AM
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Default Re: ‘I will fix this,’ Starbucks CEO vows after ‘reprehensible’ arrest of two black m

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
Now hearing that these 2 black men are not the only ones that have been denied service at Starbucks in Philadelphia. Apparently, they deny the police also.

Sherriff David Clark posted the following:



I am also hearing that due to the high volume business at that specific store, the policy at the store in question is to deny restrooms and other amenities to non-paying customers (not sure how you are a customer if you having purchased anything). (This was from a news update on a local radio station. I will try to find more on this.)
the Philly police rep mentioned that in one of the clips as well, I mentioned it too.
The Black guys were refused restroom use and didn't balk, they just sat and waited for their friend. the restroom use wasn't the issue.

So i guess the only questions for Sheriff Clark are;
Were the police officers asked to leave after sitting and not ordering?
Did the Starbucks employees call 991 on the Police for not leaving?
Were the police officers arrested for not leaving when asked?
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Old 05-01-2018, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: ‘I will fix this,’ Starbucks CEO vows after ‘reprehensible’ arrest of two black m

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
the Philly police rep mentioned that in one of the clips as well, I mentioned it too.
The Black guys were refused restroom use and didn't balk, they just sat and waited for their friend. the restroom use wasn't the issue.

So i guess the only questions for Sheriff Clark are;
Were the police officers asked to leave after sitting and not ordering?
Did the Starbucks employees call 991 on the Police for not leaving?
Were the police officers arrested for not leaving when asked?
The police were denied the use of the facilities. Same as the 2 that are the topic of the thread. Different facilities, but same concept.

The employee's did not have to call 911 because the officer left when he was asked to leave. Big difference here.
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Old 05-01-2018, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: ‘I will fix this,’ Starbucks CEO vows after ‘reprehensible’ arrest of two black m

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
The police were denied the use of the facilities. Same as the 2 that are the topic of the thread. Different facilities, but same concept.

The employee's did not have to call 911 because the officer left when he was asked to leave. Big difference here.
were the officers asked to leave? really?
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:53 AM
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Default Re: ‘I will fix this,’ Starbucks CEO vows after ‘reprehensible’ arrest of two black m

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were the officers asked to leave? really?
No, they were denied access right off the bat. But basically the same thing.
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