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News & Current Events Discuss Judge throws out case against Bundys, bars retrial in devastating defeat for federal at the General Forum; Originally Posted by lurch907 A "big ol' gift"? How do you figure that? If the prosecutors had a winning case, ...

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Old 01-10-2018, 02:16 PM
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Post Re: Judge throws out case against Bundys, bars retrial in devastating defeat for fede

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Originally Posted by lurch907 View Post
A "big ol' gift"? How do you figure that? If the prosecutors had a winning case, why the need to hide evidence?
Who said they needed to?
Or is that just your assumption?
“As a result of threats to witnesses and the speed at which personal information can spread on social media, the government concluded it could not simply turn over its entire database,” prosecutors wrote in a brief before Monday’s hearing. “Failure to disclose the information underlying the court’s mistrial order was due, in a few instances, to simple inadvertence, but in the overwhelming majority of instances to a good-faith,” they said.
Out of curiosity, do you even have any idea what the actual charges against them were that some are blindly claiming they are "innocent" of?
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:45 PM
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Default Re: Judge throws out case against Bundys, bars retrial in devastating defeat for fede

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Who said they needed to?
Or is that just your assumption?
A bit of an assumption. Willfully withholding evidence isn't something that makes sense for a prosecutor with a winning case to do. The prosecutor is risking getting disbarred by doing this.

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Out of curiosity, do you even have any idea what the actual charges against them were that some are blindly claiming they are "innocent" of?
yes
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: Judge throws out case against Bundys, bars retrial in devastating defeat for fede

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Who said they needed to?
Or is that just your assumption?
“As a result of threats to witnesses and the speed at which personal information can spread on social media, the government concluded it could not simply turn over its entire database,” prosecutors wrote in a brief before Monday’s hearing. “Failure to disclose the information underlying the court’s mistrial order was due, in a few instances, to simple inadvertence, but in the overwhelming majority of instances to a good-faith,” they said.
Out of curiosity, do you even have any idea what the actual charges against them were that some are blindly claiming they are "innocent" of?
Unfortunately the feds can charge ANYONE for ANYTHING they want and ruin their lives without winning a case. I'm sure you have heard the horror stories. Remember, this stuff doesn't just happen to right wingers like Bundy.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:35 PM
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Post Re: Judge throws out case against Bundys, bars retrial in devastating defeat for fede

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A bit of an assumption. Willfully withholding evidence isn't something that makes sense for a prosecutor with a winning case to do. The prosecutor is risking getting disbarred by doing this.
Considering the risk of getting disbarred, it doesn't make sense for a prosecutor with or without a winning case to do it.

And as I quoted (but you copied / pasted around), there are other reasons that such things happen.

Perhaps I should assess that cutting and pasting around facts is not something a poster with a "winning" case would do.


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Originally Posted by Dog Man
Unfortunately the feds can charge ANYONE for ANYTHING they want and ruin their lives without winning a case.
Yes. And many of them are black...
( while we're throwing out generic statements... )


Devolving to generic statements to ignore the actual specifics in the case at hand is another thing that some people could consider posters "with a winning case" wouldn't do.
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Old 01-10-2018, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: Judge throws out case against Bundys, bars retrial in devastating defeat for fede

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Yes it does. It clearly states that the government cannot steal your property or your freedom. It is actually a very small document. Written in common English. You should read it.

I miss the days when common English was actually common, and people actually read The Constitution.
Added bonus, people reading The Federalist Papers.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: Judge throws out case against Bundys, bars retrial in devastating defeat for fede

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Yes it does. It clearly states that the government cannot steal your property or your freedom. It is actually a very small document. Written in common English. You should read it.
it doesn't say anything about you stealing from me or me stealing from you. that bundy character stole from both you and me because our taxes had to cover the BLM handling his cattle (getting them out of wire and ditches, reminding him to feed them...etc.) , which his rent was meant to pay.
plus he used your land and my land sans rent.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:48 AM
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Default Re: Judge throws out case against Bundys, bars retrial in devastating defeat for fede

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post



Yes. And many of them are black...
( while we're throwing out generic statements... )


Uhhhh, yes, I don't know what skin color has to do with it, but OK I agree.

Devolving to generic statements to ignore the actual specifics in the case at hand is another thing that some people could consider posters "with a winning case" wouldn't do.
The actual specifics are in, that's why the Feds lost. Now it's Bundy's turn to go after them. He was downtown yesterday, here in LV, with a loud speaker going after the Sherriff for siding with the wrong minded feds instead of the citizens he is supposed to protect.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:31 PM
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Default Re: Judge throws out case against Bundys, bars retrial in devastating defeat for fede

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it doesn't say anything about you stealing from me or me stealing from you. that bundy character stole from both you and me because our taxes had to cover the BLM handling his cattle (getting them out of wire and ditches, reminding him to feed them...etc.) , which his rent was meant to pay.
plus he used your land and my land sans rent.
That the Bundy's owe money to the government is mute. A Proven settled case and the Bundy's, by order of the courts, owe. That said, this case was not about those fees or the trespass of his cattle. The charges to 16 people were about the actions of the demonstrators and the Bundy's in the peaceful resistance of the BLM's actions.

Such civil demonstrations, confrontations with LEO's and government agents in Nevada were essentially no different than similar demonstrations in Baltimore, St Louis Ferguson MO where violence occurred and property as damaged. Yet virtually no one was arrested.

In neither case was that okay.

I'm not suggesting the same leniency should be offered the Bundy's and their supporters, but the prosecutors should have presented their case without deceit, There malfeasance demonstrates a dangerous bias on the part of the government to aggressively pursue crimes the selection of which is based on a political agenda.

The Constitution clearly defines what it means to apply enforcement of our nation's law with malice and prejudice. Such in-equal application is simply wrong.

To argue about the land fees is to conflate the issues for which the federal Judge tossed out those cases.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:38 PM
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Default Re: Judge throws out case against Bundys, bars retrial in devastating defeat for fede

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
That the Bundy's owe money to the government is mute. A Proven settled case and the Bundy's, by order of the courts, owe. That said, this case was not about those fees or the trespass of his cattle. The charges to 16 people were about the actions of the demonstrators and the Bundy's in the peaceful resistance of the BLM's actions.

Such civil demonstrations, confrontations with LEO's and government agents in Nevada were essentially no different than similar demonstrations in Baltimore, St Louis Ferguson MO where violence occurred and property as damaged. Yet virtually no one was arrested.

In neither case was that okay.

I'm not suggesting the same leniency should be offered the Bundy's and their supporters, but the prosecutors should have presented their case without deceit, There malfeasance demonstrates a dangerous bias on the part of the government to aggressively pursue crimes the selection of which is based on a political agenda.

The Constitution clearly defines what it means to apply enforcement of our nation's law with malice and prejudice. Such in-equal application is simply wrong.

To argue about the land fees is to conflate the issues for which the federal Judge tossed out those cases.
We have heard that Harry Reid had a deal to sell that grazing land to the Chinese. When that came out is when the Feds backed down.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:50 PM
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Default Re: Judge throws out case against Bundys, bars retrial in devastating defeat for fede

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Considering the risk of getting disbarred, it doesn't make sense for a prosecutor with or without a winning case to do it.
That would depend on how badly they wanted to win. A prosecutor with a winning case has no need to cheat, a prosecutor with a losing case would be more inclined to cheat.

Quote:
And as I quoted (but you copied / pasted around), there are other reasons that such things happen.

Perhaps I should assess that cutting and pasting around facts is not something a poster with a "winning" case would do.
We're taking the prosecutor's, who just got bitch slapped by the judge, excuses for misconduct as fact now? Claiming I copied around "fact" seems a bit of a reach.
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