Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > General Forum > News & Current Events
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

News & Current Events Discuss European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed at the General Forum; Originally Posted by waltky Because of the laws under the Brit[i]sh National Health Service, Charlie's parents are not allowed to ...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2017, 07:42 PM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tennessee
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,885
Thanks: 8,874
Thanked 3,503 Times in 2,300 Posts
Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by waltky View Post
Because of the laws under the Brit[i]sh National Health Service, Charlie's parents are not allowed to take their son to other doctors unless the hospital doctors give permission.
This says it all...
__________________
"In his second inaugural address, [Franklin D.] Roosevelt sought 'unimagined power' to enforce the 'proper subordination' of private power to public power. He got it…"—George Will, July 8, 2007
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to pjohns For This Useful Post:
  #52 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:57 PM
mlurp's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Flatlands
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,566
Thanks: 18,265
Thanked 10,501 Times in 8,190 Posts
Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
Exactly.
at least 2 question on the table here
WHO has authority over children's welfare when parties disagree on what BEST, the STATE or the PARENTS?
And also,
Who gets to determine what is or isn't legit medical treatment? the STATE or the individual in consultation with their Dr..?

Not to toss a monkey wrench into your point but I have seen right here in KS, when liquid marijuana was need to help a child this great state said way..

And in other actions the States Child Services (who do make mistakes a lot and children have died because of these mistakes) has control over the chidren not the parents when the situation brings in the state.

So do check your states requirements and be shocked.


When it comes to ABORTION some on the left argue that the STATE should STAY OUT of the relationship between DRs and "WOMEN bodies".(the Pro-life counter to that is that starts with it's not JUST her body...)
But the principle the "Pro-Choice" view tries to apply is correct. The STATE should NOT have any ultimate say over people's attempts ....to Treat or Cure their bodies or to Treat or Cure their Children.

Unless there's extremely compelling evidence that treatments do in fact cause more harm than good.

And with so many of the disclaimers on LEGAL Pharmaceuticals today saying thing like "Use might cause internal Bleeding, Brain damage, liver damage, organ failure, Blindness, lung collapse, diarrhea.... or DEATH!"
Seems to me the bar is already pretty LOW as to what's ACCEPTABLE as medical risk.

"experimental" and "alternative" treatments should have very few roadblocks from the State.
And the State should have the burden of the proof to show extreme likelihood of serious harm, not the patient or the patient's family to show high degrees of effectiveness.
As noted above the State does place roadblocks in the way at times with anything experimental..
__________________



_ ... _ Improvise-Adapt-Over Come ... _ ...
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mlurp For This Useful Post:
  #53 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:01 AM
mlurp's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Flatlands
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,566
Thanks: 18,265
Thanked 10,501 Times in 8,190 Posts
Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Originally Posted by waltky
Because of the laws under the Brit[i]sh National Health Service, Charlie's parents are not allowed to take their son to other doctors unless the hospital doctors give permission.

This says it all...

and shows that socialized medicine in the UK, has several layers with death Panels at each stage..

Might be the same in all of the EU., and other socialized medicine countries. Surly in the Communist countries the State has it's say..
__________________



_ ... _ Improvise-Adapt-Over Come ... _ ...
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to mlurp For This Useful Post:
  #54 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:29 AM
Dog Man's Avatar
Down Boy!
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Southern Nevada
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,482
Thanks: 2,255
Thanked 3,419 Times in 2,468 Posts
Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Here is another case where UHC answers to political considerations, not medical science. At no expense to the precious UHC rationing system the parents want to have an experimental drug treatment for their child. Medical science would be advanced even in the likely event the child perishes. But merely allowing someone to violate the bureaucratic boundaries of UHC rationing could encourage others to do the same undermining the God like powers of the UHC officials.
Exactly, Worse thing that could happen, for the government healthcare crowd, would be for the baby to live after coming to America.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dog Man For This Useful Post:
  #55 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:46 PM
Surly's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,822
Thanks: 2,667
Thanked 2,911 Times in 2,267 Posts
Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

Too stupid for words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Man View Post
Exactly, Worse thing that could happen, for the government healthcare crowd, would be for the baby to live after coming to America.
__________________
My signature line has been censored by the man.
Reply With Quote
  #56 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2017, 07:27 AM
mr. wonder's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,876
Thanks: 8,342
Thanked 4,803 Times in 3,253 Posts
Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
As noted above the State does place roadblocks in the way at times with anything experimental..
yes exactly right. the State's and the Feds do put roadblocks up. and put people in jail for trying their best to help themselves or their children.

and it's not right.
__________________
Hope is the dream of the waking man.
Aristotle

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to mr. wonder For This Useful Post:
  #57 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2017, 10:18 AM
Dog Man's Avatar
Down Boy!
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Southern Nevada
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,482
Thanks: 2,255
Thanked 3,419 Times in 2,468 Posts
Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly View Post
Too stupid for words.
Agreed!, the truth CAN be stupid sometimes.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dog Man For This Useful Post:
  #58 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2017, 11:32 AM
zoriolus's Avatar
Banjo qd
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Carolina
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,927
Thanks: 2,867
Thanked 2,111 Times in 1,456 Posts
Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
yes exactly right. the State's and the Feds do put roadblocks up. and put people in jail for trying their best to help themselves or their children.

and it's not right.
I think most everybody is pulling for Charlie but are realistic that the odds for a great outcome are small. 4 years ago the Pelletier family was embroiled in a struggle with Boston Children's Hospital over the control, care, and authority of their daughter, Justina. Justina was 15 when BCH and the State of Massachusetts performed a "parent-ectomy" basically declaring the parents unfit. Justina was being treated for "mitochondrial disease" but the BCH psych experts concluded that the real problem was psychological. After a year and half of court battles and prominent media exposure, Justina was released back to her parents care but this sad case is an example of what has happened here. Although the circumstances with Charlie are significantly different, the cases do represent what happens when government and the medical industry are the same.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to zoriolus For This Useful Post:
  #59 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2017, 11:33 AM
FrancSevin's Avatar
Runs with scissors
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: St Louis MO
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,107
Thanks: 6,333
Thanked 8,990 Times in 5,154 Posts
Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
As noted above the State does place roadblocks in the way at times with anything experimental..
Yes, but again, we don't prevent people from seeking those remedies elsewhere.
And we don't execute children because they are to ill to comfort.
__________________
I am going to hang a Batman Costume in my closet. .......... Just to screw with myself when I get alzheimer's.
sola gratia, sola fide, sola scriptura.

I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN, I AM A FREEMAN, THE DEMOCRATS WORST NIGHTMARE
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to FrancSevin For This Useful Post:
  #60 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2017, 10:17 AM
Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Okolona
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,196
Thanks: 1,627
Thanked 599 Times in 512 Posts
Cool Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

Save Baby Charlie!...

Speaker Ryan Pressed for Quick Vote on Residency to Help British Baby Charlie Gard
July 21, 2017 | As times ticks closer to when a London hospital may remove a baby's ventilator and let the child die, at least 49 members of Congress have sent a letter asking the House GOP leadership to quickly bring existing legislation to the floor for a vote that would grant the baby and his parents residency in the United States, where they can freely seek the medical treatment they want for their child -- something the British health care system is denying them.
Quote:
Charlie Gard is 11 months old and has a rare genetic disorder that causes progressive muscle weakness and brain damage. His parents, Christopher Gard and Connie Yates, have repeatedly asked the Great Ormond Street Hospital in London to release their child and let him receive experimental treatment in the United States or at the Vatican hospital. The London hospital has refused and says Charlie's condition is hopeless and he should be put to death by removing his ventilator. The case currently is under another legal review in the High Court in London, which previously ruled for the hospital. Doctors in America and in Rome disagree that the situation is hopeless and have offered to treat Charlie Gard, if the hospital will release him. The parents' position to seek treatment is supported by President Donald Trump, Pope Francis, members of the European Parliament, members of the UK Parilament, and many members of Congress.

Last week, House Reps. Brad Wenstrup (R-Ohio) and Trent Franks (R-Ariz.) introduced an amendment to the Department of Homseland Security funding bill that would grant permanent legal status to Charlie Gard and his parents, allowing them to seek treatment in the United States. On July 18, the amendment passed unanimously in the House Appropriations Committee. Now it needs to go to the full House for a vote.


Christopher Gard and Connie Yates, parents of 11-month-old Charlie Gard.

In a July 20 letter to House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wisc.), House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.), and House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.), 49 members of Congress said, "We write regarding legislation that will secure residency for Charlie Gard and his parents. As you know, this is a time-sensitive issue related to a child's fight for his life and the right of his parents to seek care for his condition." "We urge you to bring legislation to the floor for a vote before the House of Representatives adjourns for the month of August," wrote the congressmen. "Legislation has been introduced that would grant lawful permanent resident status in the U.S. to Charlie Gard and his parents in order that he may come to the U.S. to receive medical treatment and contrinue to fight for his life," reads the letter. "Not only does experimental treatment provide the only chance to save Charlie's life, it also offers the opportunity for Charlie to positively impact the chance of recovery for others suffering from this condition in the future," state the congressmen. "Time is of the essence in this little boy's life. Once again, we respectfull urge you to bring legislation to the floor before the House adjourns."


Protestors outside the London High Court.

In a July 11 commentary on the case, Rep. Franks (R-Ariz.) said, "In the twisted, upside-down case of a little 11-month-old baby boy named Charlie Gard, doctors and the judiciary have said that, not only is there no hope, but rather than release Charlie to the care of his parents, they have also omnisciently decided to literally hold him hostage – insisting not only that Charlie must die but that he also must be in their "care" when he does. It is a case that rocks America to our core, because if something like this can happen across the pond, it can certainly happen here. "... It would be one thing for the courts and hospital to say they can no longer be part of keeping Charlie alive and release him in this instance to his parents who love him more than anyone else on earth. It is something far different to arrogantly refuse Charlie's parents the right to try to save him. Charlie’s humanity, his mother and father’s parental rights, and the rights of all of the disabled are at stake in this small child’s case.... [W]e [must] remember who we are and what holds us all together. "But God forgive us all, if a small boy named Charlie must be stripped of his life before we remember."

Among some of the letter's signatories are Trent Franks (R-Ariz.), Jaime Herrera Beutler (R-Wash.), Chris Smith (R-N.J.), Jeff Fortenberry (R-Neb.), Ann Wagner (R-Mo.), Jody Hice (R-Ga.), and at least 46 other members of the House. The House of Representatives is scheduled to leave for its month-long summer recess on July 28.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/...y-charlie-gard
__________________
The water's always turbulent where two great rivers meet.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to waltky For This Useful Post:
Reply

Tags
baby, court, european, human, killed, must, rights, rules

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0