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News & Current Events Discuss European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Surly Are you guys still going on about euthanasia? The kids parents were not allowed to give ...

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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2017, 07:45 AM
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Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

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Originally Posted by Surly View Post
Are you guys still going on about euthanasia? The kids parents were not allowed to give their kid experimental drugs. Wow, never happens here.
The difference being that Judge decided Charlie's fate, not doctors and family. And that never happens here,,,,; yet.


Under complete government control,,; experimental drugs, along with alternative therapies, will be virtually eliminated. Can you say VA?
Same with Medicaid. The choices for the doctors here is already limited to what the government says it will allow.

Years ago, my company packaged a medical device that was more effective than the ones in use. It was an NG tube valve that prevented accidental aspiration in unconscious patients on feeding tubes. Though FDA approved, the VA wouldn't use it. Nor were doctors allowed to use it for Medicaid patients. But, if you were willing to pay out of pocket you could have it.

The efficacy of judges and bureaucrats operating in medicine is very questionable. Chalie Gard died from it.
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Old 07-29-2017, 08:09 AM
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Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

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Originally Posted by Lollie View Post
Yes he is.
Time for perspective? This piece by Nick Triggle of the BBC attempts some objectivity in why Charlie Gard's fate was so important and how the legal ethical quagmire grew in the UK. The power of the internet placed GOSH and it's decisions under a microscope. I was hoping Pretty Flamingo would weigh in.



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Charlie Gard: A case that changed everything? - BBC News


Few British legal cases in recent years have proved as controversial or emotionally charged as that over the fate of Charlie Gard, the 11-month-old baby who died on Friday after a lengthy battle over his medical treatment.

During the many hours of legal debate in court, Katie Gollop QC, who led Great Ormond Street's legal team, described the case as "sad", but not "exceptional".
She was wrong. The case, which saw Charlie's parents take on the world-renowned hospital in the courts, was one of those rare cases that transcend the cut-and-thrust of legal argument.
Its impact reverberated around the country and the rest of the world, prompting protests on the streets, a mass outpouring of emotion on social media, the vilification of one of the most famous hospitals in the world and the intervention of both the Vatican and US president.
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:19 AM
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Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
The difference being that Judge decided Charlie's fate, not doctors and family. And that never happens here,,,,; yet.


Under complete government control,,; experimental drugs, along with alternative therapies, will be virtually eliminated. Can you say VA?
Same with Medicaid. The choices for the doctors here is already limited to what the government says it will allow.

Years ago, my company packaged a medical device that was more effective than the ones in use. It was an NG tube valve that prevented accidental aspiration in unconscious patients on feeding tubes. Though FDA approved, the VA wouldn't use it. Nor were doctors allowed to use it for Medicaid patients. But, if you were willing to pay out of pocket you could have it.

The efficacy of judges and bureaucrats operating in medicine is very questionable. Chalie Gard died from it.
You are making the assumption socialized medicine operates for the benefit of the patient, it does not. Bureaucrats and judges, political appointees with lifetime tenure, look after the interests of their politician masters first and foremost. The goal is to make sure the common folk don't exceed their ration of healthcare while minimizing cost to the government. Hopefully this can be accomplished by indirect means such as limiting the number of diagnostic machines which just provide doctors with information that inspires costly operations deemed unnecessary by bureaucrats.

Obama deliberately withheld nominees from any of 160+ oversight panels specified in the ACA allowing power to devolve to his appointed HHS secretary. The objective being to have political considerations be foremost.
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

[QUOTE=FrancSevin;900601

The efficacy of judges and bureaucrats operating in medicine is very questionable. Chalie Gard died from it.[/QUOTE]


When considering whether these things could happen here, I am reminded of the Justina Pelletier situation. Boston Children's is a powerful institution as is GOSH. Judges defer to the "hospital experts" almost without exception. As a general rule, we never hear about these situations because things are handled discretely and quietly. The judge in the Pelletier case imposed a gag order on the parents which the dad decided to break. The Boston Globe covered the story revealing the term "parentectomy". Charlie's parents also sought some sunlight on what was going on with their little boy. As parents, it's hard to ignore those loud alarm bells. Windows of opportunity close quickly.
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

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Yet the fact remains that in America the push is towards this very system in the long run, I believe. Socialize Medicine.

Which can't be improved in any Capitalist Society, IMHO... As profit is the controller to which all providers seek.

Any one think differently? If so then please enlighten me.
I am your huckleberry.

Obamacare was a significant push away from capitalism towards fascism where the Federal government controls private industry for political gain, not improved patient care.

When given a fair shot with minimal government meddling capitalism with the "evil" profit motive wipes the floor socialism's inherent rationing. Here are a number of ways the current healthcare bureaucracy and their craven political masters could be brought to heel allowing capitalism with its attendant benefits to flower.
  1. Allow people to choose health insurance coverage that suits their needs.
  2. Make insurance competitive by allowing sales across state lines
  3. Allow unlimited contributions to medical savings accounts with a cover sion of unspent monies to an IRA upon Medicare eligibility
  4. Repeal the so-called Cadillac tax
  5. Allow individuals to deduct medical insurance premiums from income taxes
  6. Repeal the requirements to keep up to 26 year old "children" on their parent's employers plan

No doubt this incomplete list of improvements will prompt howling from class warfare Left, increasing individual freedom at the cost of government control always does.
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Old 07-29-2017, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

How do you keep from paying for others who cannot? Also healthcare is really not a free market, providers can and do charge anything they want, how do you intend to control unbridled profits?
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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
I am your huckleberry.

Obamacare was a significant push away from capitalism towards fascism where the Federal government controls private industry for political gain, not improved patient care.

When given a fair shot with minimal government meddling capitalism with the "evil" profit motive wipes the floor socialism's inherent rationing. Here are a number of ways the current healthcare bureaucracy and their craven political masters could be brought to heel allowing capitalism with its attendant benefits to flower.
  1. Allow people to choose health insurance coverage that suits their needs.
  2. Make insurance competitive by allowing sales across state lines
  3. Allow unlimited contributions to medical savings accounts with a cover sion of unspent monies to an IRA upon Medicare eligibility
  4. Repeal the so-called Cadillac tax
  5. Allow individuals to deduct medical insurance premiums from income taxes
  6. Repeal the requirements to keep up to 26 year old "children" on their parent's employers plan

No doubt this incomplete list of improvements will prompt howling from class warfare Left, increasing individual freedom at the cost of government control always does.
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Old 07-29-2017, 10:30 AM
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Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
You are making the assumption socialized medicine operates for the benefit of the patient, it does not. Bureaucrats and judges, political appointees with lifetime tenure, look after the interests of their politician masters first and foremost. The goal is to make sure the common folk don't exceed their ration of healthcare while minimizing cost to the government. Hopefully this can be accomplished by indirect means such as limiting the number of diagnostic machines which just provide doctors with information that inspires costly operations deemed unnecessary by bureaucrats.

Obama deliberately withheld nominees from any of 160+ oversight panels specified in the ACA allowing power to devolve to his appointed HHS secretary. The objective being to have political considerations be foremost.
"Making the case,,,,,??? Hardly. Where did you get that from my post(s)

I have never advocated for socialized medicine. Please read it again...;


My post was in response to Surly's accusation (made by tongue and cheek sarcasm) that experimental drugs are held back from American citizens. It is simply not the case. They are regulated by the FDA to protect us from charlatans and fakes. But at least it is based primarily on concerns of safety and efficacy, not economy. I know of no drug or therapy denied because it cost too much for the average citizen.

And yes, sometimes the delays seem cruel to patients in need.

But not in the case of Charlie Gard. The experimental therapies were available. And so was the funding for them. Thus making his snarky and repeated implications to the contrary inappropriate.
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Last edited by FrancSevin; 07-29-2017 at 10:35 AM..
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2017, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
I am your huckleberry.

Obamacare was a significant push away from capitalism towards fascism where the Federal government controls private industry for political gain, not improved patient care.

When given a fair shot with minimal government meddling capitalism with the "evil" profit motive wipes the floor socialism's inherent rationing. Here are a number of ways the current healthcare bureaucracy and their craven political masters could be brought to heel allowing capitalism with its attendant benefits to flower.
  1. Allow people to choose health insurance coverage that suits their needs.
  2. Make insurance competitive by allowing sales across state lines
  3. Allow unlimited contributions to medical savings accounts with a cover sion of unspent monies to an IRA upon Medicare eligibility
  4. Repeal the so-called Cadillac tax
  5. Allow individuals to deduct medical insurance premiums from income taxes
  6. Repeal the requirements to keep up to 26 year old "children" on their parent's employers plan

No doubt this incomplete list of improvements will prompt howling from class warfare Left, increasing individual freedom at the cost of government control always does.
Some Huckleberry you are.........

First when it comes to big business (any one of them) they are the masters over politicians. They make the lobbyists, pay them and feed cash thru them. So what regs are [In place most likely are the ones they need.[/I]

Plus as I see it Capitalism, has but one benefit which is Profit. Yet if I am wrong correct me sir....

And in way am I for another system to be a replacement to Capitalism.. I am just stating simple facts. Plus any thing man made comes with inherited flaws...

So another would still bite us..

So what we have as a Govt., is about the best we can come up with. Except the voters need to realize voting isn't the best way to sort out all the corruption. What is and will work nicely is doing what are Constitution allows. The REPLACEMENT of all sitting persons in the govt dually elected.

And the start up of a complete new Federal Govt. And you say what Huckleberry?
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Last edited by mlurp; 07-29-2017 at 01:34 PM..
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2017, 11:20 AM
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Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

This is what happens when you have a socialist healthcare system like the UK's.

Disgusting decision.
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Old 08-02-2017, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: European Court of Human Rights rules baby must be killed

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Originally Posted by Surly View Post
How do you keep from paying for others who cannot?
By removing government intervention/coercion from the process. Easy peasy.
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