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News & Current Events Discuss The London Fire....6 confirmed dead after Grenfell Tower blaze at the General Forum; This stuff is ALL OVER London. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/380653...ammable-cheap/ CHEAP CLADDING USED Cladding used on Grenfell Tower before the fire ‘was the ...

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Old 06-16-2017, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: The London Fire....6 confirmed dead after Grenfell Tower blaze

This stuff is ALL OVER London.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/380653...ammable-cheap/

Quote:
CHEAP CLADDING USED Cladding used on Grenfell Tower before the fire ‘was the more flammable and cheaper version’

A criminal investigation has been launched to find how flames raced up the side of the west London tower block, killing at least 30 people inside

By Amanda Devlin and Richard Wheatstone
16th June 2017, 2:20 pm Updated: 16th June 2017, 3:04 pm

CLADDING used to cover Grenwell Tower before Wednesday’s killer inferno WAS a cheaper, more flammable version of two options – the manufacturer of the panels has reportedly confirmed.

A criminal innvestigation has been launched to find how flames raced up the side of the west London tower block, killing at least 30 people inside.

The aluminium panels were seen melting and falling away during the blaze
At least 30 people lost their lives as flames quickly spread up the building

The 24-story building underwent an £8.6 million refurbishment last year which included an exterior face lift using aluminium panels.

But the thin metal sheets were seen melting and falling away during the blaze by shocked eye-witnesses, exposing highly-flammable plastic insulation underneath as flames quickly spread.

Manufacturers Omnis Exteriors has now confirmed to the Guardian it supplied Reynobond PE cladding to contractors Harley Facades for the project.

Similar panels are believed to have been used on developments across London

The aluminium panels are £2 per square metre cheaper than Reynobond FR panels – which are fire resistant.

Omnis director John Cowley said all the cladding and panels the firm supplied were “fully compliant with regulations”.

He told the Guardian: “We supplied components for a system created by the design and build team on that project.”

The charred remains of the panels now litter the ground around the devastated tower.

Building managers Chelsea Tenant Management Company hired construction firm Rydon as the lead contractor on the project.

Rydon hired Harley Facades to install the cladding, which was supplied by Ipswich-based firm Celotex and manufactured by Omnis.

It was previously revealed the Reynobond PE cladding is BANNED in America on buildings taller than 40ft for safety reasons.

Similar cladding used on Grenfell Tower was allegedly provided for 14 blocks of flats across London.A salesman for Reynobond told The Times: “It’s because of the fire and smoke spread.
"The fire-resistant [variant] is fire-resistant. The polyethylene [PE] is just plastic."

A rough calculation suggests cladding panels covered more than 2,000 square metres on Grenfell, meaning contractors could have acquired the fire-resistant version for less than £5,000 extra.

The PE panels are also rated as "flammable" in Germany.

It has also been reported that East Sussex-based company Harley Facades provided aluminium composite material for the 23-storey building - as well as 14 others across London housing hundreds of families.
It is not known if these towers are fitted with the fire-resistant variant.
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:25 PM
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Default Re: The London Fire....6 confirmed dead after Grenfell Tower blaze

https://www.environment.admin.cam.ac...-new-buildings

Quote:
Guidance documents

The Cambridge Green Challenge

Environment and Energy

The design and construction of environmentally sustainable new buildings
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: The London Fire....6 confirmed dead after Grenfell Tower blaze

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A building made out of recycled newspaper?
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:29 PM
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Unhappy Re: The London Fire....6 confirmed dead after Grenfell Tower blaze

No way to identify some fire victims...

London fire may have destroyed DNA needed to ID victims
June 16, 2017 — The devastating fire that struck a high-rise tower in London may have been so powerful that it destroyed much of the DNA evidence needed to identify its victims.
Quote:
As firefighters keep searching the charred ruins of the Grenfell Tower public housing complex with sniffer dogs and drones, Metropolitan Police commander Stuart Cundy said there was "a risk that, sadly, we may not be able to identify everybody." Experts said the intensity of Wednesday's fire at the 24-story building will make naming victims extremely difficult, drawing comparisons to the 2001 World Trade Center terror attacks in New York, where 40 percent of the victims were never identified. "When you have a fire that takes hold like that, that is literally an inferno. You get a lot of fragmentation of bodies, charring of bones and sometimes all that's left is ash," said Peter Vanezis, a professor of forensic medical sciences at Queen Mary University in London.


Emergency workers search debris that fell at the base of the fire-gutted Grenfell Tower in London, Friday, June 16, 2017, after a fire engulfed the 24-story building Wednesday morning. London firefighters combed through the burned-out public housing tower Thursday in a grim search for missing people as police and the prime minister launched investigations into the deadly inferno, with pressure building on officials to explain the disaster and assure that similar buildings around the country are safe.

He said the temperature of the blaze at Grenfell Tower was comparable to a cremation. "The longer a fire burns, the less chance you have that there will be enough DNA left to test," Vanezis said. Still, he said if people were protected by any surrounding furniture or debris, it's possible there might be some viable DNA. Vanezis said the best chance to identify victims may be if officials find any remaining bits of teeth or bone, which are usually the last parts of the body to be destroyed. He said sophisticated techniques could be used to amplify the DNA, but noted such tests can only identify a person's family, not the individual. Vanezis added that medical devices like a pacemaker or any artificial implants could be used to identify people by finding their registration details.


Emergency workers wheel away a body from the fire-gutted Grenfell Tower in London, Friday, June 16, 2017, after a fire engulfed the 24-story building Wednesday morning. London firefighters combed through the burned-out public housing tower Thursday in a grim search for missing people as police and the prime minister launched investigations into the deadly inferno, with pressure building on officials to explain the disaster and assure that similar buildings around the country are safe.

Another complicating factor is that much of the DNA material that would normally be used to help pinpoint victims — like toothbrushes or combs — were probably also incinerated in the blaze. "Even if we get some DNA, the question will be, do we have anything to compare it to?" said Denise Syndercombe Court, a forensic science expert at King's College London. In those cases, Syndercombe Court said experts would need a DNA sample from other family members or need to see if there are any reference samples available elsewhere, like a hospital blood or tissue test.

Syndercombe Court said even tiny fragments of teeth or bone could help, explaining that DNA tests can be run on as few as 10 to 20 cells. She said many identifications would probably be done via dental records, predicting that such samples would be more likely found from people who died of smoke inhalation, rather than those killed by the fire itself. Syndercombe Court said the testing process would likely take months, as officials scour through remains, search for things like comparison DNA and go through a lengthy verification process. "People won't want to give up easily," she said, adding that officials would likely also encounter other obstacles, like trying to find people who weren't expected to be at the tower or differentiating between siblings where little DNA remains.

The timing of the fire — after the recent deadly attacks in Manchester and London — also doesn't help. "The capacity of labs to do this kind of testing is limited," Syndercombe Court said. "They're already working on forensic evidence from Manchester and London. This just adds to the backlog." As of Friday, London police said 30 people have died in the Grenfell blaze. Britain's Press Association has reported that some 70 people are still missing after the fire, based on a compilation of verified reports.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/london-fi...131456940.html
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Old 06-17-2017, 09:08 PM
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Default Re: The London Fire....6 confirmed dead after Grenfell Tower blaze

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Now wait, while the cladding probably did contribute to the building going up like a Roman Candle you can also blame the fact that 13 million was spent on that building but upgrades didn't include a sprinkler system or fire escape. This in a building with only one staircase is completely unforgivable. Making the building pretty and somewhat more energy efficient was more important than fire safety in a 24 story building. I don't blame the survivors and the families of those killed for being pissed and protesting. You have to be a special kind of stupid to do something like that.
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Old 06-22-2017, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: The London Fire....6 confirmed dead after Grenfell Tower blaze

How the Asbestos Hysteria Led to the Grenfell Tragedy


Quote:
How the Asbestos Hysteria Led to the Grenfell Tragedy

By Michael Fumento —— Bio and Archives June 22, 2017


There was no single cause of the tragic 24-story Grenfell Tower conflagration in London. The British newspaper The Telegraph lists eight factors, including lack of dual staircases, lack of sprinklers both outside and inside, and sub-standard fire doors—none of which at this time appear to have violated the law. But nothing contributed more to the sheer speed of the spread, blocking both exits and preventing rescues, and hence the horrific death toll, than what’s called “cladding.” That’s a covering or coating on the structure.

According to The Telegraph, fire safety experts warned as much as 18 years ago that the cladding used on buildings such as Grenfell Tower—used to improve both energy efficiency and aesthetics—posed a deadly threat because it essentially turns a high-rise into a chimney, funneling the heat upwards. Why? Partly it’s “breathing space” between cladding panels allowing oxygen to enter and partly because the cladding was made of aluminum and . . . polyethylene. “Ethyl” means a petroleum byproduct. And while petroleum byproducts may be good for heating and cooling insulation, petroleum burns.

For fire protection nothing beats asbestos

One expert described Grenfell’s cladding as a candle which is sandwiched between two sheets of metal. “To see a material in 50 minutes across an entire building take flame like this and allow the flame to move so quickly—well this material is quite dangerous and clearly doesn’t perform,” said another. Eyewitnesses reported the cladding actually wafting down in flames and striking people. There is polyethylene cladding more heat resistant than Grenfell’s, but it would have been slightly more expensive (by $2.55 per square meter) and hence bypassed in favor of the cheaper materials.

But before highly flammable materials were used, Grenfell employed another product that has been pilloried by environmental activists and media—one which could have mitigated if not prevented this tragedy. Asbestos.

For fire protection nothing beats asbestos. Although the Grenfell temperatures were so high as to cremate bodies (lack of identification being part of the tragedy), they would have had no effect on asbestos. Asbestos also very poorly conducts heat, important because sometimes heat conduction without a spark or flame can set a fire.

Asbestos is a curious fibrous rock that can be woven into materials, be it building insulation or gloves or suits that stunt men wear when you see an actor covered in fire. In hard form it can take the shape of bricks or other building materials. During WWII, it saved countless Allied lives as shipyard workers sprayed it into ship hulls. A torpedo or shell might rip through a hull or deck, but there’s nothing sailors feared more than fire that could continue killing after the initial explosion even as it made its way to the powder magazines.



Asbestos proved to be a known human carcinogen

Asbestos was used in almost every public and commercial building constructed before the 1980s in the United States. [Likewise for Canada.] As a fireproofing material, it was applied on steel beams and columns during construction of multistory buildings. Because of its strength, asbestos was added to concrete, asphalt, vinyl materials in roof shingles, pipes, siding, wall board, floor tiles, joint compounds and adhesives. Its heat-resistant qualities made asbestos the perfect thermal insulation. The material was also used in acoustical plaster and as a component of a mixture sprayed on ceilings and walls. In short, it was the miracle material of the building industry.

That’s according to an anti-asbestos site!

So what happened? In a word, hysteria.

Asbestos proved to be a known human carcinogen when inhaled, causing both lung cancer and a cancer almost always related to asbestos caused mesothelioma. It also causes lung-scarring called “asbestosis.” The asbestos connection to these diseases has been known for some time, but truly came to the public’s attention because of massive suffering in those poor shipyard workers. All three have an extremely long latency time, often decades, which makes them scarier to us. Nobody likes the thought of potentially being a ticking time bomb when there’s no way to stop or even delay the consequences.

But ignored in the furor were two vital aspects:

1. Those shipyard workers travailed every day in massive clouds of the stuff with absolutely no protection.

2. There’s a powerful correlation between lung cancer and asbestosis and cigarette smoking. “Among non-smokers, asbestos exposure increased the rate of dying from lung cancer 5.2-fold, while the combination of smoking and asbestos exposure increased the death rate more than 28-fold,” according to a 2013 study.


Trial lawyers, Environmental groups, Environmental regulators came up with the “single-fiber” theory of asbestos disease

Yes, many, though not most, of those shipyard workers would have contracted asbestos disease even without smoking. That’s not the point, though.

Point is that somewhere along the way trial lawyers, environmental groups, and environmental regulators came up with the “single-fiber” theory of asbestos disease. Namely that you didn’t need massive exposures nor outside contributors like cigarette smoking—that literally a single asbestos thread could lodge itself into the lungs and wreak havoc.

The proof for this? None. Pure theory. But a very convenient theory for a lot of interest groups.

Trial lawyers could file class-action suits to get a third or more of settlements of verdicts. Environmental groups could raise funds. Government regulators had something more to regulate even as in general the environment in advanced countries was becoming vastly cleaner and healthier.

Meanwhile the synergistic effect of asbestos exposure and cigarettes works against the single-fiber rule. Like a well-built medieval castle, the body has myriad layers of immune systems. Regarding inhalation for example, large particles may first be caught in nasal hairs and sneezed out. After that, inhaled particles need to work past the sticky mucous in the nose, mouth, throat, and lungs. All of these work to trap invaders and harmlessly push them out.

But as with the best medieval castles, the body’s defenses can be overwhelmed. Too many cannonballs against the ramparts in one place and the stones eventually collapse. Smoking several packs of cigarettes a day does the trick nicely, thank you. The role of so-called “second-hand smoke” has been grossly politicized, as I’ve written, but even there only a handful of activists claim that side stream tobacco is as harmful as multiple packs a day.

Continued below...


Asbestos and the single-fiber rule

Obviously inhaling clouds, literally clouds, of asbestos all day long for as much as four years is begging for the ramparts to collapse. But a single fiber? Really?

No. The evidence is quite powerful against the single-fiber theory, and it appears that in recent years courts have turned against it.

Yet early on it had great appeal. One beauty is that it’s impossible to prove whether exposure even took place. You can’t detect a single asbestos fiber in a lung. Moreover, we all have asbestos in our lungs because it is indeed natural and the winds eventually carry everything anywhere. You’ve inhaled molecules of poop from the blue wildebeest of sub-Saharan Africa. Yes, gnu!

But, granted, we probably also have some fibers in our lungs because of its industrial use. And so even someone who smokes like the proverbial chimney could, by this theory, have contracted lung cancer from industrially-used asbestos.

Thus today, in most advanced countries, asbestos is totally outlawed. The U.S. is a bit less draconian, still allowing the substance for gaskets, roofing materials, and a few other places where the risk of inhalation approaches zero.

Continued below...

But will it be resistant enough?
So in short order the wealthier countries first began forbidding installing new asbestos and then ordering the horrifically expensive “abatement” of that already present. Not to mention the potentially dangerous if the single-fiber rule were true because it’s impossible to prevent some accidental release. I fought the good fight against this, including an article in The Reader’s Digest in 1990, pointing out the simplicity of merely inspecting buildings and then covering exposed asbestos.

Too sensible. Government requirements led to systematic abatement from building after building and God help you if you had it in your house. Perhaps better to just abandon it in the middle of the night.

When I saw the date Grenfell Tower was built, 1974, I assumed the cladding was originally of asbestos, later ordered abated. And so it was.

Expect safety specifications in the U.K. to change, especially the replacement of the cladding with a variety more resistant to heat. But will it be resistant enough? Meanwhile, we have yet another tragic tale that hysteria kills. Too late for asbestos; it will never be brought back. But there’s always the hysteria that will beset us tomorrow…

Michael Fumento is an author, journalist, and attorney who has been writing on science and epidemic hysteria for over three decades.


Michael Fumento is a journalist, author, and attorney who moved to Colorado in December. He can be reached at Fumento[at]gmail.com.
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Old 06-22-2017, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: The London Fire....6 confirmed dead after Grenfell Tower blaze

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You can bet the Greenies are out in force doing damage control for their green products. They will try to blame anyone, before they will blame their flammable "Green" products.
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Old 06-26-2017, 03:27 PM
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Angry Re: The London Fire....6 confirmed dead after Grenfell Tower blaze

60 more high-rise buildings at risk of catastrophic fire in London...

UK finds 60 buildings at fire risk
WARNED OF RISKS: An insurance association said it had told authorities that external cladding made from combustible material can cause fire to spread
Quote:
The fallout from London’s devastating tower block blaze continued on Sunday with the government announcing 60 high-rises have failed safety tests, as an insurance body said they had warned officials of the fire risks. The massive operation to test tower blocks follows the Grenfell Tower inferno earlier this month that is presumed to have killed 79 people after it spread at shocking speed. Suspicion has fallen on the cladding installed on the outside of Grenfell and urgent checks have found such material used on 60 other residential buildings has failed fire tests. “All landlords and fire and rescue services for these local authorities have been alerted to the results and we are in touch with all of them to support and monitor follow-up action,” local government minister Sajid Javid said.

The new figure is a significant jump from the 34 high-rise buildings in England deemed unsafe by the government on Saturday. While many people have been able to stay in their homes despite the fire risk, thousands of residents from 650 flats in north London were evacuated on Saturday. An inspection showed four of the five Chalcots Estate towers in Camden were at risk over cladding, fire doors, gas pipes and insulation, prompting a chaotic evacuation with temporary accommodation offered in a local leisure center and hotels.


A man walks past Dorney Tower residential block on the Chalcots Estate in London

Despite the safety fears, about 200 residents have refused to leave their homes, some of whom suffer from agoraphobia, local authority leader Georgia Gould said. “I’m going myself back to the blocks to knock on doors and have those conversations,” she told BBC television of her efforts to convince residents to leave. Gould refused to be drawn on whether there was a deadline to evacuate residents, saying: “The last thing I want to do is force people out of their homes.”

It is up to each local authority to decide whether to evacuate residents from blocks which have failed fire tests, a spokesman for the communities and local government department told reporters. As tests continue to avoid a repeat of the horror which broke out at the Grenfell Tower on June 14, the Association of British Insurers (ABI) said it had warned of the risks posed by cladding in feedback to a government policy document. “In our response to the government’s housing white paper in May this year we drew attention to the fact that external cladding made from combustible material can cause fire to spread,” ABI spokesman Malcolm Tarling told reporters by e-mail.

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Old 06-26-2017, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: The London Fire....6 confirmed dead after Grenfell Tower blaze

I think I would rather take my chances with the Asbestos.
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Old 06-27-2017, 04:06 PM
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Cool Re: The London Fire....6 confirmed dead after Grenfell Tower blaze

Better to be safe than sorry...

German high-rise evacuated over insulation concerns in wake of Grenfell disaster
Wednesday 28th June, 2017 - A western German city has decided to evacuate an 11-storey apartment block because of concerns over exterior insulation similar to that of Grenfell Tower.
Quote:
City authorities in Wuppertal said the fire risk at the building had been reassessed following the fire in London that killed at least 79 people, news agency dpa reported.


The 80 residents were told they could return to their flats when the cladding had been removed

It said replacement accommodation is available for the residents and they can return to their apartments once the insulation is removed. In all, 72 people are believed to be affected.

Aluminium composite panels used as exterior cladding are believed to have rapidly spread the fire in London on June 14, trapping residents in their homes before firefighters could save them.

German high-rise evacuated over insulation concerns in wake of Grenfell disaster - Independent.ie
See also:

Grenfell Tower fire: German flats cleared amid cladding fears
Tue, 27 Jun 2017: An 11-storey block is evacuated in Wuppertal because it has panels similar to Grenfell Tower's.
Quote:
An 11-storey block of flats is being evacuated in the German city of Wuppertal because its facade has panels similar to those that caught fire at Grenfell Tower in London. At least 79 people died in the London fire and authorities in Wuppertal said the disaster had prompted a reassessment of security. The German block was built in the 1960s and houses at least 72 people. The type of cladding used at Grenfell Tower was reportedly banned in Germany. Since the 1980s only non-flammable material can be used on the external walls of buildings greater than 22m in height.


Police cordoned off the building in the Hilgershöhe district of Wuppertal on Tuesday afternoon and buses were made available to move residents to alternative accommodation. "There is danger in delaying, so we have to deal with it immediately," Martina Eckermann told Der Westen website. The residents were told they should be able to return to their homes as soon as the cladding had been removed. Since the 14 June Grenfell Tower fire, authorities have begun inspecting flats across England and found that cladding on 95 high-rise buildings is unsafe. At the weekend, hundreds of flats were evacuated from the Camden area of north London because of safety concerns over cladding and other fire risks.


The fire at Grenfell Tower started on the fourth floor and spread to the 24th floor

During the last fire inspection of the Wuppertal block, flammable insulation material was found with a wooden sublayer, and concerns were raised about narrow corridors and a lack of fire alarms, the head of the city's building department was quoted as saying. Escape routes could quickly become filled with smoke in the event of a fire. Residents were told to take only one suitcase before the building was sealed to prevent looting. They were due to be moved to flats that had been intended for refugees but were now empty. Testing is expected to take place on another 70 buildings in Wuppertal.

Grenfell Tower fire: German flats cleared amid cladding fears - BBC News
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