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News & Current Events Discuss Trump faces lawsuit for violating Constitution two days after taking oath at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Mikeyy Turns out, he’s not supposed to use his office to enrich himself. An all-star team of ...

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Old 01-24-2017, 09:04 AM
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Default Re: Trump faces lawsuit for violating Constitution two days after taking oath

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Turns out, he’s not supposed to use his office to enrich himself.

An all-star team of lawyers, including two leading experts on presidential ethics and two of the most prominent constitutional scholars in the nation, will file a lawsuit on Monday challenging President Trump’s ongoing violation of an anti-corruption provision in the Constitution.

The suit alleges that Trump is in violation of the Emoluments Clause, which prohibits federal office holders from receiving “any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.”

Trump’s company, the Trump Organization, does regular business with foreign governments, presenting them with an opportunity to launder unconstitutional gifts to the president. A bank controlled by the Chinese government, for example, rents office space in Trump Tower. And the Embassy of Kuwait reportedly moved an event from the Four Seasons hotel to a hotel owned by Trump “after members of the Trump Organization pressured the ambassador to hold the event at the hotel owned by the president-elect.”

Although Trump announced at a press conference prior to his inauguration that he would take some steps to insulate himself from his company, Norm Eisen, former chief ethics counsel to President Obama and Richard Painter, who held the same job under President George W. Bush, released a statement saying that these steps are insufficient.

Mr. Trump did not make a clean break with his business ownership interests as his predecessors for four decades have done; did not establish a blind trust or the equivalent as bipartisan experts and OGE called for; entrusted trust responsibility in his family and a current employee, rather than in an independent trustee; did not screen all “emoluments …of any kind whatever,” as required by the constitution, but only some revenues, and only from his hotels; and offered an inadequate and scantily-detailed ethics wall.

Eisen and Painter are both counsel on the lawsuit, which will be filed by the advocacy group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. They are joined by a bevy of famous lawyers, including Harvard Professor Laurence Tribe and University of California, Irvine Dean Erwin Chemerinsky. Tribe and Chemerinsky have arguably done more to shape how the Constitution is taught to law students then any other legal scholars. They are the authors of rival treatises which are widely read by lawyers-to-be hoping to pass their Con Law exam.

Though CREW’s lawsuit presents a very strong case that Trump is violating the Constitution, the biggest obstacle facing this suit is likely to be a jurisdictional problem. In order to bring a lawsuit in federal court, a party must show that they have been injured in some way by the defendant — a requirement known as “standing.” Such an injury, moreover, cannot be rooted in a “generalized grievance” shared by the nation at large, but must be particular to the party filing the suit.

CREW claims that it has standing to bring this suit because it had “to divert resources from other work to monitor and respond to Mr. Trump’s activities,” according to a New York Times report on their lawsuit. They cite a 1982 Supreme Court decision, which held that a civil rights organization that sent African American “testers” to see whether landlords and home sellers were in compliance with federal housing law had standing to bring a lawsuit under a similar theory.

That 1982 case, however, was followed by other Supreme Court decisions urging courts to exercise more caution when considering whether a party has standing. In its seminal decision in Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife, for example, the Court explained that “there must be a causal connection between the injury and the conduct complained of.” It is likely that the conservative Roberts Court will be skeptical of CREW’s theory of standing, as it could easily conclude that CREW’s own decisions regarding how to divert its resources were the cause of its injury, not Trump’s unconstitutional actions.

If CREW’s case ultimately fails on standing grounds, that does not necessarily mean that no lawsuit can prevail. As the Times notes, the ACLU “hopes to find a hotel or bed-and-breakfast that might compete against a Trump hotel as a party that might have standing to sue.” A rival business which actually loses money because of Trump’s unconstitutional actions would have a much stronger theory of standing than CREW.

The ACLU’s theory, however, will require it to find a business willing to challenge a notoriously vindictive rival who is now armed with the full power of the United States of America’s executive branch. It may prove difficult to find such a business.

For this reason, the only entity that may truly be able to force Trump to follow the Constitution is Congress, which can impeach the president.

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-face...3dd#.jvii5wovw
Turns out no such thing. A couple of people make noises about maybe filing a suit is nothing but blowing smoke. Call me if and when this goes anywhere.

And when it shows up somewhere besides think progress.
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: Trump faces lawsuit for violating Constitution two days after taking oath

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In your vapid analysis, you seems to have lost track of the fact the DOJ does not control outside lawsuits against them or any other government entity.
But guess who picks and chooses judges who hear these cases? Many of these lawsuits, if actually filed, will work their way to the SCOTUS. Guess what? At least one judge appointment is on the gitterdun short list.

Elections have consequences. Ulost.

Last edited by jimbo; 01-24-2017 at 09:28 AM..
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:19 AM
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But guess who picks and chooses judges who hear these cases? Many of these lawsuits, if actually filed will work their way to the SCOTUS. Guess what? At least one judge appointment is on the gitterdun short list.

Elections have consequences. Ulost.
I'm almost embarrassed for you that you don't understand the basic operations/functions of our legal system and how cases work their way through the system.

Poor kid...
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:42 AM
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Default Re: Trump faces lawsuit for violating Constitution two days after taking oath

I think the left wing needs its entertainment to keep it occupied, happy and stupid for at least the next four years.
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: Trump faces lawsuit for violating Constitution two days after taking oath

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I'm almost embarrassed for you that you don't understand the basic operations/functions of our legal system and how cases work their way through the system.

Poor kid...
I'm just a poor country boy who grew up in flyover country and do not claim to have one of the highest IQ's around as some on this forum claim, so how about helping me out?

It's my understanding that lawsuits get filed in courts. Overseen by judges. Who rule. If the parties still disagree, the case move up.

Am I wrong? While I was sleeping did a new rule become law and suits are now adjudicated in DNC headquarters by a panel made up of Miley "I always do what I say" Cyrus, Madonna "I gonna burn down the White House" and Nancy "We have to pass this so we can see what's in it" Pelosi.
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Old 01-24-2017, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: Trump faces lawsuit for violating Constitution two days after taking oath

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I'm just a poor country boy who grew up in flyover country and do not claim to have one of the highest IQ's around as some on this forum claim, so how about helping me out?

It's my understanding that lawsuits get filed in courts. Overseen by judges. Who rule. If the parties still disagree, the case move up.
All true here...

Quote:
Am I wrong? While I was sleeping did a new rule become law and suits are now adjudicated in DNC headquarters by a panel made up of Miley "I always do what I say" Cyrus, Madonna "I gonna burn down the White House" and Nancy "We have to pass this so we can see what's in it" Pelosi.

Where you are wrong is that you presume THIS President has any influence on the outcome of the case or who hears it.

Trump appointees will not be able hear the case either because they will have been appointed too late, or they will be conflicted out.

So there are no "consequences" of the election in relation to this case.
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Old 01-24-2017, 11:05 AM
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Default Re: Trump faces lawsuit for violating Constitution two days after taking oath

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All true here...




Where you are wrong is that you presume THIS President has any influence on the outcome of the case or who hears it.

Trump appointees will not be able hear the case either because they will have been appointed too late, or they will be conflicted out.

So there are no "consequences" of the election in relation to this case.
Oh but he does and there is. The SC is up for grabs immediately. There would likely be a stay since we are talking prosecution of a President. One who controls Congress, DOJ, IRS, FBI. My best guess is assuming these cases are allowed to move forward, they will end up in the SC. Especially since the issue is the emoluments clause of the Constitution.

Liberals can whine, they can bitch, they can file meaningless suits, even clog streets with vagina clad protesters and wear ***** hats if so inclined, but the reality in terms of making a difference, they can do very little.
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Old 01-24-2017, 12:58 PM
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Default Re: Trump faces lawsuit for violating Constitution two days after taking oath

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Oh but he does and there is. The SC is up for grabs immediately.
The Supreme Court is not "up for grabs." There is a singular seat open on the Supreme Court and whomever Trump appoints to fill that position, assuming they get confirmed, would have to recuse themselves from hearing the case as it would be direct quid pro quo conflict of interest.

Quote:
There would likely be a stay since we are talking prosecution of a President. One who controls Congress, DOJ, IRS, FBI. My best guess is assuming these cases are allowed to move forward, they will end up in the SC. Especially since the issue is the emoluments clause of the Constitution.
The cases, should they go forward, will likely hit SCOTUS, but the DOJ, IRS, and FBI has nothing to do with an emoluments clause case. This isn't a criminal prosecution, this is a civil matter. The President has allegedly broken civil law (the emoluments clause). That's not DOJ/IRS/FBI territory. Even if it gets to the Supreme Court, the new justice that Trump appoints would have to recuse himself/herself (just like Kagan did when Obama cases came to the Court).

Quote:
Liberals can whine, they can bitch, they can file meaningless suits, even clog streets with vagina clad protesters and wear ***** hats if so inclined, but the reality in terms of making a difference, they can do very little.
It may be true that there is little liberals can do at this juncture, but not for the reason you think.

EVEN IF SCOUTS finds Trump has broken the law, it's not at all clear it qualifies as a "crime" for the purposes of presidential impeachment/removal. It seems, from the outset, the only thing they can do is order him to divest himself of the assets that could/would cause the conflict. But let us assume that it was a crime...

Impeachment has to begin in the House and Removal has to occur in the Senate and that's not likely.

This case isn't going to get him out of office. It's going to force him to comply with ethics regulations and Constitutional requirements.
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You get the respect you give. And if you're a Republican, you b*tch about paybacks being a b*tch. So sorry you're mad your guy is getting the respect you gave ours, Snowflakes.
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: Trump faces lawsuit for violating Constitution two days after taking oath

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Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
The Supreme Court is not "up for grabs." There is a singular seat open on the Supreme Court and whomever Trump appoints to fill that position, assuming they get confirmed, would have to recuse themselves from hearing the case as it would be direct quid pro quo conflict of interest.



The cases, should they go forward, will likely hit SCOTUS, but the DOJ, IRS, and FBI has nothing to do with an emoluments clause case. This isn't a criminal prosecution, this is a civil matter. The President has allegedly broken civil law (the emoluments clause). That's not DOJ/IRS/FBI territory. Even if it gets to the Supreme Court, the new justice that Trump appoints would have to recuse himself/herself (just like Kagan did when Obama cases came to the Court).



It may be true that there is little liberals can do at this juncture, but not for the reason you think.

EVEN IF SCOUTS finds Trump has broken the law, it's not at all clear it qualifies as a "crime" for the purposes of presidential impeachment/removal. It seems, from the outset, the only thing they can do is order him to divest himself of the assets that could/would cause the conflict. But let us assume that it was a crime...

Impeachment has to begin in the House and Removal has to occur in the Senate and that's not likely.

This case isn't going to get him out of office. It's going to force him to comply with ethics regulations and Constitutional requirements.
It would hopefully also force him to release his taxes.
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:11 PM
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It would hopefully also force him to release his taxes.
It could happen, if there is reasonable evidence of conflicts.
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