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News & Current Events Discuss Chelsea Manning decision: Obama under fire for cutting sentence at the General Forum; Chelsea Manning decision: Obama under fire for cutting sentence Jan. 18, 2017 US President Barack Obama has come under fire ...

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Old 01-18-2017, 12:50 PM
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Default Chelsea Manning decision: Obama under fire for cutting sentence

Chelsea Manning decision: Obama under fire for cutting sentence

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Jan. 18, 2017

US President Barack Obama has come under fire from top Republicans for his decision to commute the sentence of Chelsea Manning, who leaked documents to Wikileaks in 2010. House Speaker Paul Ryan said the move set a "dangerous precedent". But White House spokesman Josh Earnest said the time already served by Manning was an appropriate punishment. The 29-year-old transgender US Army private, born Bradley Manning, will be freed on 17 May. She had been scheduled to be released in 2045. Manning was sentenced to 35 years in 2013 for her role in leaking diplomatic cables to the anti-secrecy group, one of the largest breaches of classified material in US history.
Obama let's her skip after 6 years of a 35 year sentence
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Old 01-18-2017, 01:36 PM
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Default Re: Chelsea Manning decision: Obama under fire for cutting sentence

I'm all for it if it means the U.S. stops going after Julian Assange for publishing many of what Manning gave Wikileaks.
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Old 01-18-2017, 10:47 PM
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Default Re: Chelsea Manning decision: Obama under fire for cutting sentence

I think It's Great. One of the few things Obama has done decent.
Manning is no criminal, Manning didn't kill or torture innocent people he exposed it.


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Old 01-18-2017, 11:17 PM
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Default Re: Chelsea Manning decision: Obama under fire for cutting sentence

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Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
I think It's Great. One of the few things Obama has done decent.
Manning is no criminal, Manning didn't kill or torture innocent people he exposed it.
The problem here is the lie of omission...

I AGREE that he exposed some nefarious government behavior, and if that was ALL that he did, I'd be on board...

But it's NOT all that he did...He also put US national security at risk, and possibly caused the deaths of many soldiers, allies, and civilians...He used deception and theft to obtain information...He went public with personal information of people who were doing no wrong...

I'm sorry, but destroying a building to save a kitten doesn't cut it...

He could've EASILY handed over PERTINENT documents and burned the rest, but instead, he handed over everything and let unqualified media people to dissect it themselves...
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: Chelsea Manning decision: Obama under fire for cutting sentence

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
The problem here is the lie of omission...

I AGREE that he exposed some nefarious government behavior, and if that was ALL that he did, I'd be on board...

But it's NOT all that he did...He also put US national security at risk, and possibly caused the deaths of many soldiers, allies, and civilians...He used deception and theft to obtain information...He went public with personal information of people who were doing no wrong...

I'm sorry, but destroying a building to save a kitten doesn't cut it...

He could've EASILY handed over PERTINENT documents and burned the rest, but instead, he handed over everything and let unqualified media people to dissect it themselves...
I think it's been shown that nothing the Manning leaked has ever harmed any American. Except by reputation or by exposing them to proper prosecution. (which i don't think every happen either)

I think a different analogy is more appropriate than the kitten in the house.
It's more like a fire man breaking windows and doors to save innocent people in house filling with natural gas.
Do firemen break and enter? yes do they do thousands of dollars of damage to private property. yes. do they sometimes even grab people against there will? and toss them out of multiple story windows? yes.
In most siututions ALL of that would be illegal but when the freakin' house is on fire the rules about that stuff aren't the most important thing.
Fireman are not imprisoned for any crimes and they are rightly called heroes.

seems to me that exposing and trying to stop the murdering and torturing of innocent people isn't really like the life of a kitten.
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:21 AM
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Default Re: Chelsea Manning decision: Obama under fire for cutting sentence

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Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
I think it's been shown that nothing the Manning leaked has ever harmed any American. Except by reputation or by exposing them to proper prosecution. (which i don't think every happen either)

I think a different analogy is more appropriate than the kitten in the house.
It's more like a fire man breaking windows and doors to save innocent people in house filling with natural gas.
Do firemen break and enter? yes do they do thousands of dollars of damage to private property. yes. do they sometimes even grab people against there will? and toss them out of multiple story windows? yes.
In most siututions ALL of that would be illegal but when the freakin' house is on fire the rules about that stuff aren't the most important thing.
Fireman are not imprisoned for any crimes and they are rightly called heroes.

seems to me that exposing and trying to stop the murdering and torturing of innocent people isn't really like the life of a kitten.
Saying that Manning's treason didnít harm any Americans is misleading. The Taliban and terrorist groups most certainly used the information as a guide to exterminate anyone who might have been the source. Given the brutality of the players it is certain there is a substantial body count of Afghans as a result of Manning's treason.

There are channels for whistleblowers to report abuse or law breaking in the military but Manning chose not to use them. Instead he released an indiscriminate collection of information that clearly damaged the US National security and cost lives.
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Old 01-19-2017, 04:53 AM
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Default Re: Chelsea Manning decision: Obama under fire for cutting sentence

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Saying that Manning's treason didn’t harm any Americans is misleading. The Taliban and terrorist groups most certainly used the information as a guide to exterminate anyone who might have been the source. Given the brutality of the players it is certain there is a substantial body count of Afghans as a result of Manning's treason.

There are channels for whistleblowers to report abuse or law breaking in the military but Manning chose not to use them. Instead he released an indiscriminate collection of information that clearly damaged the US National security and cost lives.
US Military Admits No One Died Because Of Manning's Leaks
...As Manning's sentencing hearing kicked off, a key government witness admitted that there were no deaths that were attributable to those leaks. That came straight from Brig. Gen. Robert Carr, who was in charge of the response to the leaks. Among other things, he also noted that since the names did not appear in Arabic, it was unlikely that our enemies would have figured out who they really were anyway.
The retired general added that some of these contacts could not be found, others had died before the WikiLeaks disclosures, and others had been insurgents rather than cooperators with coalition forces.
Carr acknowledged that none of the names of Iraqi and Afghan contacts appeared in the original Arabic.
To this point, Manning's military defenders, Maj. Thomas Hurley, asked: "We don't share an alphabet with either of those countries, do we, Sir?"
"No," Carr replied.
Hurley also prompted Carr to concede that Iraqi and Afghan nationals tend not to be "not as plugged in" as Westerners.
The report also notes that while, in the past, some have claimed that an Afghani man killed by the Taliban was a result of those leaks "the supposed informant the Taliban claimed to have executed was not in fact named in the leaked materials." In other words, all the talk of people dying because of his leaks? Not true. ....
Courthouse News Service
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...gs-leaks.shtml

so unless we want to say the General was lying in court or he knows less about it than we do. then it seems there were in fact no deaths or even significant diplomatic harm link from the leaks.

As far as "proper channels" to report abuses to, i believe he did initially report some "in house" but nothing was done. Plus, as Snowden had observed, over the years from various news reports whistle blowers who tried to "go through proper channels" had been blocked, legally gaged, information seized and sealed, fired and some even arrested and brought up on charges anyway.

Obama has sent more whistle blowers to jail than any other president. Causing many reporters to comment on how that there are few if any in the gov't at this point who are willing to report wrong doing through ANY channels because of fear of gov't retaliation against them while the criminals acts of those they report on remain secret and unaddressed.

Bottom line there are no valid "proper channels".
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:00 AM
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Default Re: Chelsea Manning decision: Obama under fire for cutting sentence


Ron Paul on Commuting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx37t6pvVUE
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Hope is the dream of the waking man.
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Last edited by mr wonder; 01-19-2017 at 07:13 AM..
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