Christmas trees could be out in Fort Collins displays - Page 3

cnredd · #21 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highway80west

Good for you. I have my Spiritual materials at my desk, like "Face to Face With God (Bill Johnson), Guideposts, New Man Magazine, and my Bible. I read them on my break.

I suggest you start playing The Doobie Brothers' "Jesus Is Just Alright With Me" in heavy rotation at your desk...

Idealogically Promiscuous · #22 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highway80west

Good for you. I have my Spiritual materials at my desk, like "Face to Face With God (Bill Johnson), Guideposts, New Man Magazine, and my Bible. I read them on my break.

I am not particularly religious, myself. However, I do value the traditions of my family. That is the reason I have kinda dug my heels in on that issue.

KnightOfSappho · #23 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idealogically Promiscuous

What end does it serve to tell a woman she can't display her tree with an angel on her front door?

And whether non-Christians like it or not, Christmas is celebrated now because "Jesus is the reason for the season". If you are celebrating the season for any other reason, then you AREN'T celebrating Christmas. You are celebrating the winter season or some other holiday such as Hannuka and that's fine. You are entitled to do so without intrusion or unnecessary restraints placed on your celebration.

Not on her front door...

on a little tree sitting in the hallway.

KnightOfSappho · #24 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idealogically Promiscuous

No. Buddhism is looked at more as a "style" rather than a religion. In any event, last saturday I nailed the crucifix to the wall. No one will be removing it in my absence.

Has someone requested that he remove it and it was denied or did no one ask in the first place?

cnredd · #25 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnightOfSappho

Not on her front door...

on a little tree sitting in the hallway.

That right here is the issue(and it's not directed at you KOS)...

Secular people are SO adament about this that minute points like this are discussed...

On a front door?...Yes

In a hallway?...No

WTF?!?!?!

That is so sad...

Idealogically Promiscuous · #26 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnightOfSappho

Actually, these days it has evolved into a secular holiday with some religious aspects.

I don't think so. Personally I have no problem with Christmas displays, but let's look at the bigger picture here... Christian tradtition has been the dominant tradition so few challenged it. When it WAS challenged in the past, the wishes of the people that were offended were ignored.

These same people also would not have been likely to get their displays in the town square either.

It only looks like Christians are being picked on because things are beginning to equalize among all beliefs. I think that it is better to keep the religious displays on private property since public property cannot possible accomodate all religions. It's the only fair solution.

Agreed, but that would probably be because they aren't familiar with Michaelmas. They would see it as odd that they wreath is there and not connect it to a religious display. If it is then connected to a religious display, there will possibly be complaints.

Clearly they are not requiring hiding if the conference rooms are allowed to host Bible studies. (See the PDF posted earlier)

The government has adopted the position that religious displays on public grounds is showing a religious preference. I thinbk this 'xmas tree in the hallway' is going a bit far, but I DO understand the principle behind it.

We are going to politely agree to disagree. I took great offense at the whole "War on Christmas" thing a couple years back because I thought it was nothing more than sensationalism. However, in following the issue and reserving my judgment till I was better informed, I have seen the trend by the left to stamp out any and all acknowledgment of Christianity's place in our culture. As a side effect, they are also destroying much loved traditions and cultural practices. It's as if they have said "we want all inclusive society except for Christians because they have already had their turn".

Just another example...my boyfriend had to fight just to get some kind of holiday event at the property he manages. He didn't even want to have a Christmas event, just a holiday event. However, some residents (not muslim or jewish, mind you...just atheist) threw a fit about the mention of it in the news letter. He called it a "Festival of Lights" and encouraged the residents to decorate their trees and windows with strings of white lights for the holiday season.

In the end, the event is still happening and Joshua told the residents if they didn't like it, they could move. But all this only after going back and forth with the company's legal dept. It's such a shame.

crazyflamingos · #27 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idealogically Promiscuous

I display a wooden crucifix in my office over the door...its just a tradition in my family that there is one over the door to our house and I keep one here in my office because I spend so much time in it. I was asked to take it down and I refused. I will not have my expressions illegally dictated to me in an inconstitutional manner. Especially when the office next to me practically has a Buddhist altar. We will see how it plays out this year when I place a nativity scene on the shelf.

Is it a private office?

There was a ten commandments case that involved a judge displaying the ten commandments in his private office and courtroom. (Sorry I don't know the name of the case offhand.) The Federal court ruled that he could display it in his private office but not in the public area.

So if your office is private, whoever asked you is not even familiar with how the letter of the law works. (And that is aside from just being a jerk about it.)

I had a similar incident some years ago over a couple of religious prints that a co-worker put up in our office. She was one of my assistants. We shared an office with one other person.

My other assistant and I were both agnostic but we raised no objection to the prints. We just didn't care what she hung over her desk because neither of us was that thin skinned.

But I came in the next day and the prints had been taken down and my boss had them in her office. She said they were inappropriate in a government building. I pointed out that it was a private office; she said that didn't matter.

Then I asked her which of us was going to tell that sweet little old lady that she couldn't have her pictures over her desk -- the lady they belonged to was 75 at the time.

The boss was shocked. For some reason she thought the pictures were mine. She backed off immediately and babbled something about supervisors not imposing their religious viewpoints on subordinates.

Truth was, she wasn't going to tell that sweet little old lady that she couldn't have her pictures either. So I hung them back up and never another word was said.

I was mildly pissed because I thought the rules should be the same for everybody. I didn't care if the pictures were there but I didn't see how who they belonged to had any relevance. I was also a little pissed because my boss should have known that I was not the type to impose my beliefs on anyone else if either of my officemates had objected.

I just let is slide. My boss was an irredeemable knee-jerk liberal. There was never a liberal cause she did not support, no matter how stupid, nor a conservative one that she did not oppose, no matter how logical.

KnightOfSappho · #28 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd

Bad argument...

Saying Christians didn't invent something but use it for their own purpose is true, but...

It actual PROVES the theory that religious symbols are ALSO symbols of tradition that have been handed down for generation to generation, society to society...

That tradition is being stifled for the sake of the minority in that society...

If you don't believe me, just look at our language...

People say religious terms all day without purposely trying to push religion...

Are they gonna ban Eric Clapton on the radio because he sang "Tears In Heaven"?...How about The Beach Boys' "God Only Knows"?...

Religious references and symbols ARE PART OF HISTORY...Taking them away is taking away that history...

Which is exactly what secular people are trying to do...They want these symbols locked up as if they were a sad part of history like the Holocaust Museum or the National Slavery Museum...

:

It wasn't meant as an arguement at all. That was a commentary.

I am simply amused by the fact that some complain about their traditions being stifled when they traditions were not theirs in the first place.

Idealogically Promiscuous · #29 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnightOfSappho

Not on her front door...

on a little tree sitting in the hallway.

And I am saying that it is wrong. I am going to take some time to look at housing regulations (my boyfriend is a property manager so I think I can probably enlist his aid) and see what the actual LAW says about ownership of space surrounding a dwelling when it is rented or occupied by a non deed holder.

KnightOfSappho · #30 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd

That right here is the issue(and it's not directed at you KOS)...

Secular people are SO adament about this that minute points like this are discussed...

On a front door?...Yes

In a hallway?...No

WTF?!?!?!

That is so sad...

It can be a fine line on what constitutes a private area and what constitutes a public area when discussing a state facility or apartment building.

I guess the line had to be drawn somewhere.

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